shortridge

Are these day camps or overnight camps? Are all being offered at the same time, or rotating?

Unless he'll be hiking with a heavy backpack in very hilly or rocky territory, regular shoes will do just fine as long as he keeps them in good condition and takes care of his feet. How to get them to change their socks? Foot inspections by the PL. Get a senior Scout to talk about a bad blister experience and why dry feet are so important. (Share photos, if you have 'em!) But the most important thing is to have boots or shoes that are well broken-in. Not broken, but broken in! Scouts who take a brand-new pair of boots to summer camp are going to get blisters, no matter how expensive the boots are.

The only person I can remember wearing the red activity shirt was a brand-new DE who had apparently gone out and bought one of everything in the catalogue.

< whistles > That's sweet. How large is that camp (acreage and attendance)? My camp is lucky to have enough of-age people to send to NCS to cover the basic director positions. Except for aquatics (where there's a boatyard and a pool), there are no assistant directors. I agree with John - the only solution is increasing staffing. And the only way I see to do that, as I've argued here and elsewhere, is to make the entire staff package far more attractive (pay, benefits, bonuses, living environment).

What you say on the internet is no different than writing it on paper and posting it on a bulletin board in a public place. Come to think of it, its the same as wearing it taped to the front of your shirt." Actually, I'd say it's more like wearing it taped to the front of your shirt, handing extra copies out to random people on the street, plastering it on a billboard on a busy highway and sending a bound copy to the Library of Congress for archiving.

Interesting - I've never seen a police officer wear khaki, except a park ranger or game warden. It's blue or white around here.

All our boys are addressed by Mr. _________ as a sign of respect to them and their position in the troop. When I first started with this troop it was standard operating procedure to address the SM by his first name which the boys did. I always addressed them by title and last name and without any big deal the boys have followed suit. If respect is given, respect is returned. I used this technique when I worked at summmer camp. There seemed to be a slight but perceptible change in attitudes, for the better.

Wow. Things sure have changed since I was a Cub in the '80s. Then the biggest worry was about weights. As a den chief in the '90s, I was a finish-line judge, one of two people stationed at the end of the track. No electronic systems, no concerns about shiny cars. And no one then had even heard of baking a car. (Did I read that right?) I always liked the Space Derby a lot more than the PWD. The balsa shell was much easier for a lone Webelos to shape and sculpt than a block of wood - so no need for a parent to get involved. And the Raingutter Regatta I still think is the ultimate fun event, the epitome of KISMIF. Even the tiniest Wolf can win if he has a good set of lungs. Seems like the more rules you have, the more of a challenge it is to the fathers to find loopholes and ways to get around them.

Gunny, So what was the superb meal?

That's a really neat campout idea. If the movie bug bites them, they could even turn to doing instructional skill videos - how to tie five basic knots, how to sharpen a knife, etc. - to supplement training for younger Scouts or Webelos.

I also freely admit that I was wrong to do so as well. In my defense, I didn't know any better - this was the way we were told to do it. (Although ignorance of the law is no excuse!) It was one of those things that even the national inspectors nodded and winked at. A glance at the staff lineup during evening retreat ceremonies would have been enough to tell that there weren't enough qualified adult MB instructors to go around - too much peach fuzz and pimples. Also, requiring that level of supervision from the 18+ year-olds would have effectively ground the MB program to a catastrophic halt. There would be simply no way to get everyone through in a week's time. I'm talking under 15 "adult" area directors for a camp of about 300 or so Scouts. The staff has since doubled in size since I worked there, but I sincerely doubt the adult-to-minor staff ratio has improved much. I'm not defending this arrangement by any means, but simply explaining it.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Welcome aboard! My daughter is going to be a Daisy in the fall, as well. She's incredibly excited already. If you don't mind saying, what part of Maryland do you hail from? I'm in Delaware, and know the Eastern Shore well. Maryland has some beautiful territory.

TheScout - I wouldn't be so fast to make such a blanket statement. As a Scoutcraft instructor at one summer camp, I signed off on my first merit badge blue cards at age 15. There was no senior staffer or area director looking over my shoulder or testing the Scouts. We simply didn't have the time or sufficient 18+ staff to do it. This was in the mid-'90s. The only badges where you were guaranteed a "real" 18+ MB counselor were in shooting sports, because you have to be 21+ to teach rifle and shotgun and 18+ to teach archery. When it came my turn as Scoutcraft director, I similarly had a staff of 16-year-old instructors, both former CITs. We did lots of training, and I sat in on their classes when I could - but keep in mind that I was also teaching a full load. This isn't the fault of the staffers, but rather the camps and councils. Until they bump salaries and benefits up enough to the point where summer camp becomes a competitive workplace - particularly when it's competing with summer internships for college students - situations like this are going to continue. Going back to the original question, I'd say no ... unless, as BrentAllen said, he's working in an "apprenticeship"-type arrangement with an adult MB counselor. That could be a beneficial arrangement for both the counselor Scout and the counselee Scout, improving instructional skills while exposing the counselor Scout to a deeper range of knowledge.

As that's a fairly broad topic, I'd begin by looking at the other themes from the past and the future, and create a "No List" of activities or events. You don't want to copycat stuff that's been done in the past or is planned for future years. So adventures in space, or in the Wild West, may be out. But the good news with such a broad topic is that you can cast a very wide net. Think Lewis & Clark, Indiana Jones, mapping, treasure hunts, meeting new cultures, exploring the world of animals, etc. Are there certain program areas you're looking for ideas for?

The Phelps photo was actually published in a British tabloid first. But the points here are all very good. I'm on Facebook, but am very careful about it. I only "friend" folks whom I know and have worked with in the past... no friend-of-a-friend or Internet-friend stuff. I know that what other people post can be a reflection on me. A good chunk of my Facebook friends are people I used to work with at summer camp. It's been great to catch up with folks I haven't seen in a decade.

I'd always thought, somewhere in the recesses of my mind, that Scouting for Food was supposed to be a national thing - you know, hundreds of thousands of Scouts from across the country handing out bags and collecting food on the exact same days. Can anyone recall if that was ever part of the program, or did I just make that up?

Howdy, all. I'm looking for names and locations of good Venturing summer camp programs. I'm not trying to put together a comprehensive list, but if you know of a camp with a superb program - one customized for Venturers, and not just a retooled or slightly edited Boy Scout program - I'd love to hear of it.

So is there the Seabadge equivalent of a Gilwell song? Do you become a small aquatic creature and sing its praises to all and sundry? ("I used to be a horseshoe crab...")

We had about 400 people and ONE serving line. It was painful.

Cafeteria style is SLOW. Wow... my camp used to do that for Sunday and Friday night dinners, but has since gone to family-style for everything. Servers show up 15 minutes in advance and have tables set, etc., by the time troops show up at retreat. Runs much more smoothly, and the staff doesn't have to wait an hour to eat (under the rule staff eats last).

SR540Beaver, If everyone kept on topic in every thread, we'd have five-reply threads all the time. I've seen other posters be far more negative toward aspects of the program than Kudu, and I include myself in that category. Personally, I found Kudu's comment to be a good and constructive reminder that there are alternatives to dining halls. However, I think it's safe to guesstimate that the number of camps these days that encourage units to do patrol cooking is significantly less than those that offer only the dining hall option. Before the dining hall was built, my old camp used to rely on heater stacks, prepared and assembled by the support staff to keep the food hot and carted to each campsite by Scouts. So each troop ate separately. The only meals served in a group setting, under a big top tent, were dinners on Sunday and Friday nights. That gradually shifted to dining hall eating, and the size of the kitchen staff grew as a result. When you go from having zero utensils to wash to having 400 forks to run through the washer, three times a day, that changes the job substantially.

GKlose, thanks for the thanks. The closest I came to working in the kitchen or on support staff was doing service patrol duties, and during my CIT summer when I was the backup trading post guy. I was a program instructor and later area director. But I have a tremendous amount of respect for the kitchen and commissary crews. They worked their behinds off daily, and I only hope they got some extra in their paychecks for it. It's grueling, sweaty, hard work, and all of it behind the scenes. I don't think I could have kept up that pace. Some of the craziest, most creative guys I worked with were two fellows on the cook crew. They got some well-deserved downtime during our three-day mid-summer "retraining" (retooling from Boy Scouts to Cub Scouts), and boy, did they play hard. It was a lot of fun working and bouncing things off them. Several of the fellows I worked with had started out as CITs, and found themselves shunted into support services the next year because the available program slots were filled. (We almost always had a need for 18-year-old area directors, but instructors were a dime a dozen.) To my knowledge, they never complained, and kept coming back, despite having definitely not joined Scouts for the privilege of eight weeks of running a hot dishwasher or packing food crates. On a tangent, it's interesting hearing about how other camps do "time off." At my camp, everyone had one night off a week, from about 6 p.m. - 11 p.m. or so., plus the 24-hour period from Saturday noon to Sunday noon. Everyone got a one-hour daily "siesta" period right after lunch... but of course the program staff could usually be found hanging out in their areas prepping for the afternoon programs, and the kitchen staff was cleaning up from lunch, so no one really got to siesta.

If the adults noticed any safety issues (the running ahead may count), or are concerned about specific skills (if their cooking/cleaning approach could lead to food poisoning, for example), then they can point them out to the PL. Otherwise, they should back off as per kraut-60. If there are maturity issues involved, or concerns, then send the patrol out with just, say, the former SM and the advisor. Have an explicit "no parents allowed" trip - and make sure it's coming from the Scouts, loud and clear. Then transition to patrol-only treks. I understand and appreciate parents' wanting to be involved in their sons' activities. Heck, we need more of that! But if the Scouts themselves are saying "Hey, I got this, it's cool" - then the parents and adults would do well to pay attention.

Yeah, sleep can be the most difficult part of the whole deal. There's a lot going on, you're working late (evening programs might go until 8 p.m., then there's cleanup, packup, policing the program area, chilling out, a friendly game of Risk, etc.), folks around you are staying up late... But I also found that I was best when I had a full 8 hours (OK, maybe 6), and others were, too. It isn't very confidence-inspiring for a Scoutmaster watching a group of bleary-eyed CITs stumble up to the dining hall from the staff lodge five minutes late for breakfast.

Congratulations! You won't find another job better than camp staff in your entire life. These are in no particular order of importance... First, aggressively pursue BSA Lifeguard certification. That will be a major help, both to you and your bosses. I don't know of any camp that doesn't give that training to its aquatics people during staff week, so you should be in good shape. Second, chat up some experienced staff members before you go about camp "necessities." It really differs from camp to camp. When I worked on staff at a mid-Atlantic camp, we had electricity in our tents, and everyone brought fans, radios, etc. Other camps put everyone in dormitory-style bunkhouses, so there may be less space to store your stuff. Bring a footlocker and a big duffel bag (Army surplus-style), and you should be set. One caveat: Extra shampoo, soap, deodorant and laundry detergent (even if it's provided) are essentials. Third, consider that it's not just a job, it's also a home. Yeah, most of your waking hours will be spent at the pool or waterfront, leading songs at meals or tours of camp, etc. - but personal time & space is still a must So brainstorm a list of things you'd like to live with - not XBoxes or TVs, but some simple luxuries. My personal list always included a few favorite books (which I never had time to read) and a journal (which I never had time to write in, despite my best intentions). Consider playing cards, family photos, a Bible or other religious text. Fourth, don't bring anything hugely expensive. I knew some guys who did bring small TVs, fancy stereo systems, etc., and got upset when stuff happened - people tripped over them, or they were the accidental victims of a huge water war one night. Fifth, study up on everything you can about your program area. Even if you've already earned all the aquatics badges, read the MB pamphlets again, and again. Practice rescue techniques, paddling strokes, sailing tactics, portaging and all the rest. At camp, learn all the new skills you can. Sixth, be the best general staff member you can be outside of your program area. If you didn't attend there as a camper, take time to learn the traditions AND the camp rules. Volunteer for special assignments, even if it's just taking a run to the garbage dump or sweeping out the handicrafts lodge. Seventh, be kind to the cooks and kitchen crews, if you have a dining hall program. Lend them a hand from time to time, and hang out with them when you get a chance. When you're out doing the glamorous stuff like putting up the flags in the morning, they're sequestered inside slaving over eggs-from-a-bag and mixing the umpteenth vat of bug juice for hundreds of (usually ungrateful) campers. Never complain about the food! Thank them for what they're doing, and maybe suggest to your boss that you open up the pool late one night or early one morning just for the support staff. Or, if it's OK with everyone's supervisors, offer to work a shift for someone during your free period so they can sneak off and shoot a round of archery. (In addition to being Scoutlike, this behavior can get you an inside track into the commissary or kitchen for late-night PB&J sandwiches or ice cream sodas - always a bonus.) Eighth, take care of yourself personally. Camp is exciting, and a wonderful experience. But don't get so wrapped up in the experience and camaraderie that you burn yourself out. Get at least eight hours of sleep each night, even if the other guys are still up playing cards until 2 a.m. Eat all the fresh fruits and veggies you can get your hands on. Stay away from the trading post except maybe once or twice a week. Ninth, always have a smile, and think and look before you speak. A stray comment about a fellow staff member's embarrassing moment, or a complaint about the director's attitude, might be overheard by a Scout or leader. That's unprofessional, and gives a bad reputation to you and the entire camp. Always be positive, ready to answer even the dumbest question from a camper in a cheerful manner ("Where's the waterfront?" when they're standing three feet away from a sign that says "WATERFRONT --->", for example.) Tenth, soak in everything you can during staff week. Even the boring classroom-style sessions on injury reporting, evacuations and bloodborne pathogen protection are critically important. If a Scout gashes open his arm and a second later the emergency siren goes off, you've got to know what to do. The standard teambuilding exercises can be goofy and artificial, but grin and play along nonetheless. Eleventh... have fun.