SeattlePioneer

This is why I don't like overproduced Pinewood Derbies where parents are getting in the way of the boys having fun.

I don't think this is worthwhile to try and analyze "hypothetically." Guessing and supposing facts, and then guessing and supposing about how people might react is not worthwhile.

Circa 1985 I took my troop to Camp as SM. I announced that one of my goals for the week was to do the mile swim, which was an activity open to Scouts and Scouters. Several Scouts adopted the same goal, although I'm sure none of them had ever give it a thought until my announcement. The program involved daily swims for distance and then the climactic swim at the end of the week. Several of the Scouts completed the mile swim requirements, as did I. In 2005 I attended camp with a Troop as an ASM. I again did the Mile Swim program, which attracted one or two Scouts. Another adult chose to do the Camp triathlon which was open to adults. I think that attracted a couple of Scouts to participate as well. Generally speaking, I don't favor pitting adults vs youth in competitions. But when adults can choose to participate in activities and inspire youth to try things they may not otherwise do, I think that's good. That's what the "adult leader" method of Scouting is about, in my view. Seattle Pioneer

For 3+ years I've been working to revive a Cub Pack that was down to one boy. I've had a reasonable amount of success, but it's still a struggling pack. As a Den Leader and Cubmaster, I always was fully uniformed. Interestingly enough, ALL the den leaders in the pack have been men. I suspect that since when they saw male leaders, men new to the pack could see themselves as Den Leaders too. The ladies are Committee members and such. I would very much have liked to have seen more den leaders be uniformed. I consider that a gift to the boys, and it makes it easier for boys to take uniforming more seriously. This year my Wolf Den Leader has a uniform blouse. Yeah! --- He's the new Cubmaster as of the first of the year. In my opinion, leading by example is a satisfactory method of providing leadership on the uniforming issue. I'm not very good with "quiet chats," and I might annoy leaders if I tried that method. Any new boy or adult who becomes a Scout or Scouter gets awarded a pack neckerchief I cut from attractive yard goods, and they get a slide too. That's my way of encouraging boys and adults to start thinking about uniforming. Some boys get full uniforms right away. Others wear only the neckerchief they are given. Few of the adults wear the neckerchief they are awarded, although I do! There are lots of ways to provide leadership on this issue. My methods haven't been especially effective, but in the Cub Scouts we are expected to do our best. That's pretty much my best so far.

Leave the guy ALONE!

Hello Basement, Congratulations on completing Wood Badge! Sorry you didn't have a positive experience. In my own case I had the final review and approval of my ticket and then.... nothing. That was circa 1987. In 2007 or so, I bestirred myself to contact a person in my district who had staffed on the course, and he was nice enough to process the completion of the course and arrange a beading ceremony. So if your luck holds, you may be able to look forward to having your beading ceremony sometime in 2032!

Grumpy Ummmph! > Wood Badge increasingly seems like an overproduced activity, sort of like some Pinewood Derbies..... Glad I took the course in 1985 when it seemed to operate pretty. I've given up recommending it myself, but some staffers are always promoting it at every council activity it seems. Sort of a self perpetuating racket these days, it seems.

I think the real bottom line to this issue is the extent to which councils are using Wood Badge as profit centers. If they are, I think that's reasonably objectionable. I would avoid making a profit off of volunteers who are taking their time and money to learn to provide a quality program for youth.

Don't you really need to be able to look at the Wood Badge Course budget as seen by the Council to understand these things? I'm supposing the council looks at this as a supply/demand issue, with their objective being to maximize the revenues they can get from the course. They charge all participants whatever they can. If they couldn't get the staff they needed for free, they would pay staffers to attend. Since they do get staff for free, why not charge them if they will come for free and pay too? Frankly, I see Wood Badge as over promoted by council. Perhaps that helps stoke demand and the amount that can be charged. I don't claim to be an Xpert on this issue. I'm guessing and supposing.

I believe I started Cub Scouts in second grade --- 1958. Only lasted a few weeks though. Momcrafts didn't work for me and I remember probably 200 Cub Scouts at pack meetings. I got involved with Cub Scouts again as a Unit Commissioner in 2004, and as an AS in 1981 and SM in 1982.

Liberals seem to be getting a dose of their own medicine.

I suppose it's a supply and demand issue. If a council needs the money and can get staffers to pay, they may well do so. If they can't and it's a task they want done, they will offer subsidies of various kinds. Those attending Cub Scout Daycamp staff training get the fee ($100 or more) paid by the council. Perhaps one of the byproducts of over promoting Wood Badge is to gin up sufficient supply of staff so that the staff can be charged to participate.

I've been CSRTC since 8/2009. I'm planning on making the 8/2012 RT my last. My theory is that most good Cubmasters should have a year of good CSRT programs they can put on. My year was up and I would have preferred to have quit, but I was persuaded to do a second year. On the whole, that has been a mistake. My bias has been to ignore the Roundtable guide and to put on programs that pack leaders needed to hear about to improve their programs. Our February RT will be on how to do an effective pack communication program. January was on planning a good Blue and Gold dinner, and how to use the Journey to Excellence as an effective pack planning tool. December was on managing an effective pack advancement program. August was on methods of planning an effective popcorn sale. September how to do an effective recruiting drive. Pretty much each month I aim to find the best leaders in the district to make presentations on the program of the month. All too often people wont cooperate by helping me out, but that's my aim. If you have the energy, the second year be an Assistant RT Commissioner and help back stop the person who takes your place.

So.... Will the Spanish Wood Badge course be set up to accommodate LDS Scouters who can't participate on Saturdays?

I had a Scout who received an extension from the council advancement committee. I wrote a letter noting that he had been SPL for the entire period he was a Life Scout. He had done an excellent job as SPL and I suggested he had a choice to make (more or less) of being an excellent SPL or doing his REagle project. That gave him a three month extension which gave him time to complete his Eagle project. The only sour part of that is that he never had his Eagle COH. His father was SM and several times I pushed in the Troop Committee Meeting to schedule the ECOH. The parents always objected that relatives wouldn't be available. That was in 2006. A year or two ago I e-mailed the now adult Scout and offered to have him awarded his Eagle at a district Roundtable or District Committee meeting, but got no reply. I took Wood badge in 1985, but didn't get my beads until about 2008 or so. If someone drops the ball, I see no reason not to pick it up and complete the recognition even years later if its still meaningful for the person. Seattle Pioneer

Feeding volunteers is a nice gesture and a thoughtful one.

For Cub Scouts (and parents) I define the duty to God as: 1) Following the faith of your family 2) Respecting the religious beliefs of others. That's worked pretty well.

The cruise liner crash has killed a number of people, while the Exxon Valdez grounding didn't kill or injure anyone, as far as I know. Of course a valuable ship and cargo of oil was lost, but the killing of human beings makes the cruise ship grounding far more tragic in my opinion.

I want to lend my support to the idea of food.... " A Scout is Hungry" and so are most adults!

> This is just the kind of thing that could be discussed over coffee with the Cubmaster. I'd have no objection to that. Still, a better solution in my opinion is to give families the opportunity to discuss their religious beliefs briefly in a pack meeting from time to time. That is an opportunity to educate boys and adults in different religious faiths, and might help get rid of the "God, ho hum" attitude that treating religion as a matter of routine tends to engender. Most good Cub Scout program doesn't repeat the same thing over and over. It changes things up and highlights new things. Why not do the same by explaining various religious faiths represented in the pack?

Lawyers will just look for people from twenty, thirty or more years ago to mine for lawsuits.

I think parents concerned about such issues need to find free time when they can discuss this with the Cubmaster in a leisurely way. What ways can the Cub Pack accomodate the beliefs of a Scout of a minority religion in ways that are respectful to all, and prefereably teach the majority about some of the principles of the minority faith? The best way to do this in my experience is to allow the parent and child to lead an invocation or other expression of their faith as part of the Cub Pack from time to time. Personally, I'm opposed to turning religious beliefs to mush in order to accomodate everyone. I'd rather have Catholics repeat some faith based statement some times, Jews do the same some times, Buddhists do the same another time and so on. That respects everyone and gives everyone an opportunity to understand the faiths of other people. That goes for the Cnadian Scout family as well. Find out what ceremony Canadian Cub Scouts repeat and give the parent and child an opportunity to explain and repeat that statement from time to time.

Hello Hico, That's an excellent post, in my view. My district hasn't used the JTE results to look for weak units in need of help --- perhaps we should, although I think weak units are not a secret to district leaders. Personally, I think weak JTE results are best if they motivate weak units to concentrate on identifying and improving weak parts of their program. I'm not sure if that is what is happening, but it would be good if it did.

Hello dg98adams, I think your description of the program illustrates how district volunteers can control the quality of events such as a MBU. The standards for such activities can be high or they can be low. Perhaps some of those complaining about such things should do what you have done and get involved in helping to organize the activity at the district level and insure that it's a quality Scouting activity.

I don't like mixing in new boys from spring recruiting into existing dens either. Instead, I organize a temporary Bobcat Den composed of new boys that aims to complete the Bobcat requirements and have a high quality outdoor activity and quality den meetings for a few weeks until June when the new boys form their new den for the next year. That also allows me to get new parents involved and to size up those parents for positions they can hold in the den and pack. That has worked well for me.