SeattlePioneer

> I find it hard to believe that a CPA would find dealing with Scouts Accounts to be difficult. Can you explain why?

In my experience, most units are sloppy accounting for cash in particular, and money in general. It's mostly an act of faith. In my view, two simple practices would improve things a good deal: 1) Have the monthly checking statement sent to a reliable person other than the treasurer. That allows an independent person to look over deposits and checks written, and the statement can then be sent on to the tresurer. 2) Use a three part receipt book to document payments made to the unit, especially cash payments. One copy is given to the person making the payment. The second copy is sent to the treasurer. The third copy stays in the receipt book as the record of the person who takes the payment.

A year ago, Boeing began making a contribution of about $25 per hour of time volunteered to Scouting by Boeing employees. That continues again this year. That's a flat contribution regardless of what task the volunteer is doing. The volunteer/employee files a report with Boeing claiming a certain number of hours and Boeing sends the council a check. So I'd say ---- $25/hour on average.

One of my personal aims is to make Scouting an affordable program, not to vacuum out the wallets of families. I have never gone to a national jamboree, Philmont or the other Boy Scout Disneylands. People and units that want to attend are welcome to do so, but it's not an essential part of Scouting to me. So first of all, I consider those optional programs. Secondly, a Scout is Thrifty, and that means we pay our bills --- unit level, council and national. In tough times you may have to do some things you'd prefer not to do to fund your program. So I wouldn't consider this to be extortion. It's not a common practice and I hope it doesn't become so. I am supposing it is an action the council deems to be regrettably necessary to fund their program. Personally I find lots of inexpensive activities provided by our district, and somewhat more expensive camps and activities provided by the council. And inexpensive and no cost activities organized by my Cub Pack. Personally, I'm working to help organize our district Cub Scout day camp and get Cub Scouts signed up for that. I'm also trying to get our Webelos Den to participate in an upcoming Webeloree or Camporee, and I'd like to have Webelos Scouts participate in the Council Resident Camp. So I have plenty of reasonably affordable activities available for Cub Scouts. Boy Scouts are different. Scouts units that want to do elaborate and relatively expensive trips are welcome to do so, but it's not my personal priority. Attending a good summer camp, NYLT and state Jamboree plus good summer outings, 50 miler and such would be my priority. If units and families can raise money to do more, great! But it's really not a core part of the Scouting program as far as I can see. If you can't go on an expensive trip because it's unaffordable, that's unfortunate, but I make that decision every day. I wouldn't make it my job to undermine the fund raising program through a campaign of sabotage. That's the way I look at it, anyway.

I suppose everyone is cool with paying the bill for my medical marijuana, supplies and legal bills for when I get arrested as part of Obamacare?

Cities and towns, egg boards, milk producers and such mostly choose pretty girls to be Queen for a year at a time. That works pretty well for us. Occasionally it even produces as much drama as your Royals do sometimes!

Ummm. My answers would vary somewhat from earlier replies. > Primary elections are usually run by state and local governments. Caucuses are often organized and run by the parties themselves. Primaries and caucuses may be "closed" requiring previous membership or registration as a party member or "open" where no previous membership is required. > Usually, yes they can. This happens most often when a candidate to whom a delegate is pledged drops out as a candidate. The delegate usually then votes for whomever he wishes. As a practical matter, the nominee is decided before the convention begins, so this isn't a real issue. > Two years after a Presidential election year there are Congressional elections for US Congress. Most state parties have a state convention during those years, electing delegates through a system of party caucuses. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

So what are people's experiences using the services of this outfit?

Moosetracker describes a good program. I thought of another issue. When someone completes approved training, a report to that effect needs to be made to the council so that the results can be recorded on Scout Net and made a part of the Scouter's record. When I do training I get the report forms from the district training chair and turn completed forms into him. A person doing training on their own is not going to be able to make those reports on their own. Pointing that out to the eager Pack Training Chair along with referring him/her to the district training chair like Moosetracker above would seem to be a nice, gentle way to deal with the issue. As a district leader, I'm always keenly interested in anyone who is willing to help carry out district programs. I'd make a point of introducing the eager Pack training chair to the district training chair and vice versa. The district training chair probably has significant resources such as course syllabuses and training that would be welcomed by eager pack trainers I would suppose. Let's draw that person farther into the program and into the bosom of the district leadership!

I know all the arguments for uniforms, and I support uniforming. But uniforming is not a requirement for Scouting, although I suppose individual units are free to enforce uniform standards if they wish. But there are a lot of competing values in Scouting besides uniforming which are routinely ignored by zealous uniforming units. Usually in such units such standards are maintained by adult leadership, not boy leadership. And "helpful, friendly, courteous and kind" has to mediate uniforming standards as well. Then there are the methods used to enforce such standards. Personally I favor using a good example to set and change uniforming standards myself, and that can be effective. In one pack I was working with, there were no adult leaders uniformed when I served as a Tiger Cub Den Leader for a year. During the course of that year and since then program leaders have increasingly been uniformed, each leader deciding for themselves to make the step. In another pack, that has been a much slower process. And then there's just being stupid by alienating a leader such as that described in the opening post of this thread. So it's not just "supporting" uniforming. We both do that. It's comes to a question of what leadership methods you use to achieve that purpose. But go right ahead and put the arm on people if you wish. I prefer my methods.

I'm surprised Scout Camps don't do a shakedown of Scouts as they enter camp. To avoid competition with the Trading Post.... I've never had to actively manage this issue. It's always resolved itself as snacks are eaten over a couple of days. But if someone's got an inventory big enough to open their own trading post, that might be a different issue. My own experience is that respectable, regular meals for a week help get boys into good mealtime habits, and myself as well (my own habits being rather irregular.) It might be worthwhile to make that point to boys towards the end of camp and to cue parents in on an opportunity for more regular meals when boys return from camp.

I think I'd be inclined to discuss this issue with your district Training Committee Chair. Usually there is a detailed outline of what training should consist of, which is then embroidered to various degrees by the trainer. I wouldn't want to discourage the interest and enthusiasm of a volunteer. I'd want to take advantage of that interest and support it in positive ways, and the district Training Chair ought to be able to do that.

I trust people are aware that uniforms are NOT REQUIRED for Scouting at all. An adult or youth who chooses not to wear a uniform is not violating any Scout rule. Personally I wear a full uniform to all Scout activities. My struggling pack doesn't have a bulging uniform closet --- nor any uniform closet at all. Frankly, I have things a LOT more important to do than nitpicking people about uniforms. I set an example myself, I supply a neckerchief and slide to new Scouts the same meeting they join as a way to encourage uniforming. Uniform nitpickers sound spoiled to me. Just not much of an idea of the issues that confront a lot of Scout units. I recall a Wood Badge participant who wore their hat with the brim reversed. The patrol gossiped about this for a few days, trying to decide what to "do" about it. In the end the correct decision was made: nothing. The sky didn't fall. Frankly, any Scout Troop where the only uniforming issue is an adult not wearing pants sounds like a troop with an adult leadership problem that probably dwarfs uniform issues.

> You have once again explained why this is a perpetual and tiresome subject. It's easy to nitpick. BSA provides an extensive list of responsibilities for every position --- I've never known anyone who did them all, or even close in most cases. So you could nitpick almost anyone of that basis or many others. Uniforming offers the most obvious target for nitpickers. The Scout oath also recommends being "helpful, friendly, courteous and kind," but these recommendations are frequently ignored when the nitpickers choose to indulge themselves.

Excellent post, Ssscout! The last time I was Assistant Scoutmaster for a troop, I set up games several times that involved tieing a bowline and throwing a rescue rope. After a year or so of that, we were out on a snowshoe hike. Our newest Boy Scout got separated from the group and slid about forty feet down a steep slope with several feet of very soft powder snow. He was unable to stand up or climb up the slope. The first impulse of some of the adult leaders was to take over the rescue, which would have been a fun way to demonstrate our skills. However, I waved back the adults and put the Scouts in charge. And they did indeed manage to tie a bowline, toss the rope down and extricate the Scout, with one boy tieing himself to a rope and descending to help the Scout. I am always pleased to be able to recall that rescue, although the process of losing the boy in the first place is a painful one to remember.

Eagle 92 and dg98adams discuss some of the ways to make a uniform inspection a positive program experience. As a Unit Commissioner, I haven't been asked to do a uniform inspection and I wouldn't do one if asked. I wouldn't rely on myself to have the deft touch that would make it a positive experience for boys. I'm 3.5 years into rebuilding a pack that was down to a single boy. I've been turning positions over to new parents and volunteers, and I'm pleased to say they are often doing better at their new jobs than I was able to do. One of the tasks of selecting leaders is to find the best person and the right person to do a job. That probably applies to uniform inspections too. The right person can make a uniform inspection a positive experience for a unit. The wrong person might do lasting damage even with good intentions. I consider myself the wrong person to do that task.

The idea of having a section for parents is that it would distract parents from working with their boy in building and decorating their cars. Last year parents were pretty engaged in doing that. I really liked the experience last year. It combined parents --- dads mostly, helping their boys to lay out their cars and helping them with the parts they couldn;t do as well, such as finishing major wood cuts when younger boys tired of sawing. At the same time, some dads specialized in an ad hoc way of helping with particular things, and boys felt free to ask any of the parents for help. I have one dad and granddad who are our Tiger Cub Den Leader and Assistant Tiger Cub Den Leader. At our parent meeting last Monday, the grand dad offered to bring a power scroll saw to do the major cuts on the cars, but I discouraged that since it would turn over a task boys could do perhaps with some assistance into one done by adults. He understood and accepted that. It's perfectly natural for parents and dads to be eager to participate in the PWD with their boys, and indeed I want that to happen. But often dads don't realize how they can take over the event and spoil it for boys. That impulse tends to take over the event, and that's what I am to avoid by the structure of this activity, such as not starting construction of cars until the day of the event and giving everyone equal access to tools and equal time to build a car. But of course what counts is how this works out in practice. You never know how an eager dad will try to bypass the plan. My back up to this is to welcome families to participate in the district PWD, where they can go to town on their own car plans if they wish. The district PWD DOES have an "unlimited" class for the participation of Boy Scouts or adults. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Remember the television image of Bill Clinton shaking hands with John Kennedy? If they could dig up a movie image of Barack Obama pledging allegiance to the government of Indonesia when he was in school there, or images of him worshiping at a Mosque, that might produce some interesting public relations fireworks. (spell check initially turned "worshiping" into "horsewhipping." Glad I caught that one!) (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Den Chiefs are always assigned to assist with leading a den. How 'bout having a Den Chief assigned to assist the Cubmaster with pack meetings and activities?

I generally don't favor what I call overproduced Pinewood Derbies, where parents, usually Dads, dominate everything and children can be excluded from racing. Last year I designed a PWD that suited my tastes, and it was well received by both parents and boys. This year parents at our committee meeting last Monday wanted to repeat it again this year. The features are: 1) Boys and parents come in about 1oAM on Saturday and are issued a new PWD kit. Parents are encouraged to bring whatever hand wood working tools they may have. For about an hour to an hour and a half, boys and parents work together to design and build their PWD car. We have a spray paint booth so boys can paint their cars as well. Boys can seek help from any parent on designing, building or decorating their car, so children of single moms (or whatever) aren't handicapped by lack of tools or help. 2. While the cars are being built, we set up our non-computerized three track race course. When several of the boys have completed their cars, they are issued a PWD Driver's license --- a certificate for the race. Each Scout picks who they want to race against, and the boys put their cars on the track and the heat is run. The winner of each heat receives a sticker for their Driver License each time they race. Boys race as often as they wish. At it's peak, we probably run three heats per minute. 3. After the racing gets started, we bring in pizza and drinks for snacks. 4. This year Cub Scouts will be encouraged to invite a buddy and their parent(s) to the PWD to make and race cars. This will be our example of a fun Cub Scout family activity, and will be the opening of our spring recruiting effort. 5. We will have flyers for our district PWD, which is a more competitive PWD race with trophies for winners. Boys who want more racing or a more competitive event will have that option. 5. Last year boys competed to see how many stickers they accumulated on their driver's license --- everyone had at least six or so, and some nearly twenty. Any suggestions for additional competitions or recognitions we might add to this event? I like this format because younger boys especially mainly want to build their cars and then race them as many times as possible against their buddies. This format does a great job of meeting those desires. It gives parents and dads in particular a good role, but it leaves the boys making their cars with the assistance of parents. Dads aren't encouraged to take car building away from their boys, although they may help complete saw cuts and things when boys get tired of sawing. It's a nice, simple one day event that's easy to organize. Any other suggestions or ideas would be welcome.

Hello noname, > Sorry, I don't understand this. Can you describe what you mean again?

What's the difference between: 1) A love struck girl who sends a nude picture of herself to the boy she likes 2) A love struck guy who takes a nude picture of himself and sends it to a girl he likes Which one is more like to come to the attention of police? If the law is going to get involved in this kind of thing at all, I suggest that the person initially taking and disseminating the picture should be prosecuted if anyone is going to be charged. I think we can all agree this is a stupid practice. The interest of the law is discouraging the stupid practice in the first place. That means charging the person who initially takes and disseminates the picture. If you don't do that, then mommy and daddy are going to be outraged when the picture innocent Janie took of herself is passed around all over a school. Janie is going to discover she did something stupid and she is going to want mommy and daddy to make it better. Mommy and daddy are going to pressure the cops to charge all the guys who passed it around, but of course they aren't going to want their little darling who STARTED the problem to be charged. If mommy and daddy and Janie and all the other Janies discover they will be prosecuted for this behavior, they are a lot less likely to do it to begin with.

Adults can be trained in the skills of leadership too, and I think that's a largely unsung role of Scouting in addition to training youth in leadership skills.

After 3+ years I turned the CM position over to an experienced Den Leader January 1st. I was out of ideas and my hope is new leaders will have new ideas that will improve the pack. Right now I'm COR and a pack committee member. I have someone attending our committee meeting tonight who might be an excellent COR to replace me. I may take over as Pack Treasurer to get that job done better and until I can find a good person to replace me. I don't aim for long tenure. I aim to get a quality job done and to bring new people into positions of leadership as fast as I can find them.

> Yes. Another thing ---- personally I'm lousy at having friendly little chats with people about such things. I usually come off in a heavy handed way and can easily alienate people even when I don't intend to do so. So I avoid being pushy about such things. Instead, I aim to provide a positive example and encouragement to adopt uniforming habits. As an example of that, whenever a new boy enters the pack I award them a neckerchief and slide immediately. My methods aren't especially effective though.