SeattlePioneer

From the newspaper article: > Read all about it! Newspaper continues cover up! Fails to report allegations to police! A THIRD OF A CENTURY have gone by and still the cover up continues by this newspaper! The newspaper admits that it routinely fails to report allegations of crime to the police. Requests for the newspaper's secret files on decades of such allegations have been rebuffed by a newspaper still hiding from these kinds of abuses of power!(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I just completed two years as the District Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner. My aim during those two years was to identify things unit leader needed to know about and learn about and present the best ideas and training about how to do those things. Unit popcorn sales methods, recruiting methods and strategies and Cub Scout camping food and activities were examples. Unfortunately, participation remained modest. Anyway --- I've been transferring my varied Cub Scout interests from the Roundtable to a virtual Roundtable on this forum, by raising various issues Cub Scout leaders might learn from. I am learning plenty, and I hope others do so as well. And I hope people will post their own questions about how to manage their program. Thousands of new Pack Committee Chairs, Cubmasters and Den Leaders are being appointed and trying to figure out how to make their units work. I'm hoping some will find their way here and pose questions with which they can use some help.

Hell drmbear, I agree with you on the importance of getting an effective Tiger Cub Den started each year! Failed Tiger Cub Dens are all too common, and they can easily lead to a failed Cub pack. Towards that end, I tried doing Tiger Cub Den Leader training in June. All new Tiger Cub Partners registered in the spring were invited to do Den Leader training to learn how to make the Tiger Cub program work. Unfortunately, I only got one person one year and two the second --- mostly from my own pack. Second, this was my 3rd year as Tiger Twilight Camp Director (Cub Scout Day Camp for new Tigers) I used that program to show new Tiger Cub partners what an effective Tiger Cub program should look like and feel like --- and learn some things about how to run it. The attorney who stepped forward to help Monday was at the Tiger Twilight Camp with his son. We had twelve Tiger Cubs and their partners at the Tiger Twilight Camp this last summer. I also did the Tiger Cub Den Leader training at our annual Council training event last fall. Furthermore, the Tigers are the MOST FUN! of any boys in Scouting, in my experience! You can't beat their enthusiasm for almost anything. But I'm still learning about how to make the "Shared Leadership" idea work. Thanks for your very helpful comments.

Great story! I hope you'll keep us posted on how the job application works out and on what sounds like a terrific summer program if he gets that!

If you have a Bear Den Leader who is now the Webelos Den Leader but hasn't done the training as WDL needed to register for that position, would you keep him as WDL but not register him?

I've been a Tiger Cub Den Leader twice during a year. I'm getting a new Tiger Cub Den started now as a pack leader, and I want to get the "Shared Leadership" idea working if I can. Monday I asked for parents who would manage the October and November Den program, and offered to help them with that task. My idea is that I will temporarily be acting as the Den Leader to help get the program off to a good start and to identify a likely prospect to be the permanent Den Leader. One parent, an attorney, offered to lead the Oct 1st den meeting as I requested, and a second parent of a Bear Cub offered to lead the second October Meeting and Go See it. My theory of how the Shared Leadership should work is for the Den Leader to make the overall plan for the den for the year, to insure that the Bobcat requirements and achievements and such are completed in a timely and effective manner, with other parents expected to organize and lead den meetings and go see its according to the plan of the Den Leader. The parent leading the activities for the month would be a partner to the Den Leader for that time, generally carrying out the plan of the Den Leader and counting on the advice and assistance of the Den Leader if needed. Does that sound like the right idea? And if you made the Shared Leadership idea work another way, I'd be glad to hear about it.

Hello Abel, > Once again we have people putting the worst possible interpretation on unfortunate but unproven allegations. You have to KNOW something before you can cover it up. It is VERY unlikely that any BSA agent observed the alleged actions. BSA officials got a lot of hearsay, second and third hand accounts of what might have happened. It would probably be IRRESPONSIBLE to draw conclusions about what happened from such allegations. Do FAMILIES want to report such things to the police? Nothing stops them from doing so. Certainly BSA didn't stop them from doing so. I would suggest that ultimately it was families and parents in particular who decided to cover up what they knew or thought they knew, not BSA. In my opinion, BSA was not the bad actor in these dramas.

The new leadership recruited for this unit is taking hold and becoming effective! The pack had a good recruiting night last night and the new Committee Chair and new Cubmaster are doing a good job of finding new leaders and getting the program started effectively. It's tough when you recruit a new Cubmaster and Committee Chair at the same time --- they are both going to have a lot to learn and wont have the benefit of another leader to teach and support them. But they will learn, and they are making things work. It was a near thing. The former Cubmaster is out of the picture and the pack could easily have collapsed for lack of leadership, which is where I found it in 2004 when the last "Cubmaster Who Does Everything" left.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I made some of the personal remarks referred to. While it satisfied my angry impulses, those remarks were a mistake. I apologize to Merlyn for making them and I'll aim to contain those impulses in the future.

We did a wine tasting after a pack committee meeting once. I think parent meetings ought to be made fun for parents and adults to attend. We are having our first parent meeting of the new school year Monday. New parents are invited to this reception in their honor, and I am planning to have some treats available. Our plan is to have parent meetings last no more than an hour ---I think people are a lot more likely to attend if they know they wont be talked to death.

Oh, good! Best news on the forums so far today!

My bias would be to give the four the option to form their own patrol --- that's what they are doing on their own as it is. Are they disadvantaged in patrol competitions: tough. Are they short people to go camping: tough. They will have issues they need to solve, but there are a variety of ways they can do that. Perhaps they will be the Goof Off Patrol, or perhaps they will become the Honor Patrol. It's really up to them.

I'll second Beavah's comments. While I don't much care for the relish Merlyn seems to have for bringing up negative issues about Scouting, they are a fact of life and we have to be able to evaluate the issues honestly and then be able to deal with them in responsible ways. I think that thread is worth continuing for those reasons. Same for the threads about boorish people making snide comments when boys are selling popcorn. Boorish people are a fact of life, and thinking about such issues through beforehand helps identify effective and polite ways of dealing with them.

BSA has made substantial new efforts to avoid problems by the extensive, multifacted and reinforcing youth protection policies we are all familiar with. How effective that will be in deterring slimey worms remains to be seen. But it's a constructive effort by pretty much any standard. Merlyn prefers to talk about incidents that happened 20-40 years ago, and disingenuously claims that BSA aided and abetted the slimey worms, which is a vile calumny. He doesn't have anything constructive to say from what I've seen. He's just spreading poison. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

The mosquito seems to have been stung by the wasp.

The greatest popcorn seller I've ever seen was a Cub Scout who was invited to Cub Scout Roundtable with his father to talk about his sales methods. He routinely persisted through three levels of rejection by customers 1) selling for the customers desires 2) selling the idea of using popcorn as gifts for others 3) military sales. He sold over $13,000 in popcorn last year, and won 2nd place in the council. The year before he sold $9500 in popcorn, edging out the Scout who beat him last year by $30 or so.

> Heh, heh! Here's evidence of how completely Basement has exchanged his blue tabs for red ones!

Hello Taunkacoo, Actually I was referring to Frank Scout's comment: > Accusing someone else of bigotry and prejudice when what you have is an honest disagreement over values is itself bigoted and prejudiced, in my opinion.

Hello Basement, > As I said, the aim is to make selling popcorn part of a quality Cub Scout program. To that end, we encourage all Cub Scouts to sell some popcorn --- even a single sale help promote those purposes. Those who want to sell more are welcome to do so. But selling at least some is recommended but not required.

> Yes, it's a statement of intolerance by those who now demand that their values rule in society and that no others be tolerated. The simple fact is that there is a disagreement on values regarding homosexuality and sexual liberation in general. That disagreement is based on logical, rational and reasonable values. Those who are intolerant and hostile to those who disagree with them are indeed intolerant --- and perhaps bigots as well. What should be happening is that both sides should treat each other in a respectful and decent way, even recognizing differences over certain important values. That is tolerance --- for both sides. Even Steven.

> Personally, I don't consider him a master anything. He just hates BSA and wants to stir the pot. He's like a mosquito on a camping trip ---always buzzing around. Anyone have some DEET?

Hello Basement, > I disagree. We're doing a pack hike Saturday. One hour will be taking part in the popcorn sale, one hour doing the hike and a half hour doing a hot dog roast. During the hour spent on the popcorn sale, my hope is that each Cub Scout sells one bag of popcorn. Making that sale will be a good Scouting experience, in my opinion. > Wow! That's a lot of money! I presume that's for your Scout Troop. We do the same thing. Families that sell $200 in popcorn avoid paying the pack $60 membership fee for 2013. Take your pick. But selling at least some popcorn is a good Scout experience, I suggest.

Hello AZ Mike, > Interesting post. Can you describe the kinds of things that were "brushed aside" here?

> Do they keep serving in their position?

> That sounds like a good idea.