SeattlePioneer

I like to do a hot dog roast occasionally to cap a Cub Scout hike or other activity. The CORRECT way to do that (in my opinion) is to have boys and adults roast hot dogs over a fire, which provides a nice communal atmosphere. It's also one of the most basic introductions possible to the idea of boys learning to cook.

A few days ago I encountered a BSA website with detailed meeting plans for den meetings for combined Tiger Cub, Wold and Bear dens. Unfortunately, I didn't bookmark it and I haven't been able to Google it up for you. But it's out there someplace. Perhaps someone will be able to provide a reference.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Sustainability Merit Badge Sounds like more environmentalist propaganda invading Scouting, and there is already too much of that. "sustainability" without an understanding and appreciation of economics is just ignorant environmentalist propaganda.

It's not at all clear to me that BSA has any LEGAL obligation to report SUSPECTED cases of child abuse. Perhaps someone can explain. As I understand it, in RECENT years a FEW authorities, such as physicians, have had an obligation to make such reports to the police --- but they have expert knowledge to use in making such evaluations. I fail to see why BSA employees have such an obligation, especially when they probably have little or no direct knowledge or evidence in their possession. Instead, it seems to me that it is the RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARENTS to make complaints to the police if they wish to do so. >

Hello BSA24, I doubt very much that unit leaders are going to take kindly to district or council activity leaders maintaining files of youth leaders and sending them messages. I know I would not do that --- I notify unit leaders, including Den Leaders and Committee Members when appropriate and they decide what action to take, if any.

> Hello Baden P, That's quite a claim. "Many cases" where BSA executive "knew" was a suspect or guilty of a crime? Really? If they were guilty of a crime, that implies they were CONVICTED of a crime. Not really an issue in that case. Being a "suspect" implies that the person was the subject of a police investigation. If it's already being investigated by the police, further action by BSA really isn't necessary. Perhaps you can give me one example where a Council Executive "knew" that someone was guilty of a violent crime against a minor. Is this something that the Council Executive observed themself? Frankly, I don't think you can say anyone "knew" what happened unless at a minimum they had a hearing of some kind in which both sides had an opportunity to state their case. Was this done? VIOLENT abuse implies injuries which a doctor can chart and report. BSA involvement should not be necessary.

I've never been able to make the Tiger Paws work right. Tiger Cubs are often late getting uniforms, and without a place to hang the paw, it does work very well, in addition to other problems noted in this thread. This year I'm going to try using the "Tiger Cub Individual Advancement Record" which can be Googled up easily enough. I'll have an individual record for each Tiger Cub, and once activity at Den Meetings will be handing out those individual records and having the Tiger Cub and Tiger Cub partner update the record to reflect completion of any Bobcat requirements or achievements. Perhaps there can be a small reward of some kind for each Tiger Cub that completes a requirement. I would then hold on to all the Tiger Cub Advancement records as a Den record, and arrange for awards as needed. Any comments or refinements on this bright idea would be welcome.

> BSA and local councils had no obligation to report such cases, and usually mostly has gossip to go on as evidence. There were what, an average of thirty such cases per year? Pretty trivial for an organization with millions of youth, employees and volunteers. And remember, the cases reported were the cases where BSA DID take action by aiming to prevent people from being BSA volunteers again, perhaps with little real evidence and no hearings for those accused. BSA isn't the cops. Frankly, I'm not interested in reading the accounts of the details, so I'm going on comments made in the press and on this board. Based on what I've seen, BSA appears to have been acting reasonably by the standards of the times.

> I'm sure that having people and institutions that want to avoid bad publicity is an everyday occurrence for police and prosecutors. As I understand it, it's VERY common for parents not to want to have someone prosecuted who has molested their child. They want to avoid the bad publicity and fall out of trials, too. If prosecutors had a good case and elected not to pursue it, I'd say that's the responsibility of prosecutors, not Scouting.

http://seattletimes.com/html/northwestvoices/2019467803_boyscout19lets.html Boy Scouts of America did the right thing I think the Boy Scouts of America did the right thing in dealing with child molesters during the time these files were compiled. Speaking as a person who went to the police in 1985 and reported an adult who molesteda 9-year-old girl, I am aware of how little the police would do about these acts back then. [Files on alleged Boy Scout sex abusers go public today, page one, Oct. 18]. Unless a child was actually raped, a molestation investigation amounted to little more than a he said, she said thing and got nowhere. The molester was free to shop around for another child to harm. At least the Boy Scouts of America did something back then to keep child molesters from any further involvement in scouting once they found out about it, or I might add, even suspected it. Bob McQuade, Kent

So..... How much longer till the next election? That sounds like it will solve the problem. It usually creates NEW problems! Welcome to Scoutmastering!

> The Executive Officer and the Unit Leader (Scoutmaster for a Troop) sign the recharter. Best comment so far: > Second Best comment so far: >

Our Tiger Cub or Wolf Den makes an afternoon snack --- apple slices, pieces of banana, carrots and such. Webelos cook diner --- spaghetti and frozen meatballs, baked potatoes and choice of toppings, tacos and choice of topping or other choices like that. Bears cook the hotcake and sausage breakfast. Sausages baked in a Dutch Oven using charcoal. I also like to do some kind of cooking exercise to cap off a hike or other activity. Roasting ears of corn is good this time of year, or roasting hot dogs on a stick.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

More pointless tinkering with things that merit continuity, not change.

> Hello Packsaddle, When someone poses a question they consider provocative, why object when someone provides a reply? Let's recognize that there is already a litany of "orientations" that liberals want to protect. Not just gays, but lesnians, bisexuals, transgendered and so on and so on. I would expect that litany to increase in number in the years to come. There is already an organization promoting "man-boy love" as nor mal and natural. I see no reason why that kind of lust is different than other kinds of lust in it's fundamental nature. Indeed, I would equate that sexual orientation with heterosexuality. Lust is lust. At least for today and tomorrow, "man-boy love" is still illegal, but I fully expect that the sexual liberation movement will get around to using their customary line of argument to make that behavior not just legal, but respectable. When that happens, you will no doubt be accusing me of again being a bigot. I expect you will be an early adopter of the latest fashion in morality when that happens. Because the fundamental value of the sexual liberation movement is, "If it feels good, do it." Nothing must be allowed to get between the sexual lust a person feels and satisfying that lust. That is the catechism of the sexual liberation movement. If you still think something is perverted, they just haven't gotten around to applying their usual arguments. Yet.

> Personally I wouldn't spend a lot of time researching or calculating numbers. Honest ballparking seems perfectly reasonable to me.

> I consider beading ceremonies to be Wood Badge advertisements. There's nothing wrong with promoting Scouting programs, even those for adults, but it needs to be done in a way that's respectful to the audience. Five minutes, tops, for most situations. And I get especially tired at repeated promotions of Woodbadge that are straight promotions. I hear those all too often at council events in particular where 90% of the people have already done Woodbadge and the 10% who haven't have heard the tale all too often. Woodbadge --- the most shamelessly over promoted Scouting program, in my opinion.

The differences between a conventional First Aid Course and Mountaineering Oriented First Aid as done in the Pacific Northwest is huge, as described by JM Hawkins. For one thing, climbers should EXPECT to be dealing with significant accident situations, if not in their own party then in parties and situations they encounter. They should EXPECT that when a significant accident occurs, that party organization and leadership might well collapse. New leaders may need to emerge from the group. They should EXPECT that they may encounter multiple casualties, including people in shock from an injury to someone else. They should EXPECT that it may be hours, perhaps many hours or even days before outside assistance will be available. The Mountaineering Oriented First Aid Class I took thirty years ago included a series of practical injury problems done at night, often with multiple casualties. The Mountaineers Basic Climbing Course required completion of MOFA and also included practice with accident situations. I recall the drama of being lowered thirty feet into a crevasse on Mt Rainier and being expected to use prussik ropes to climb the climbing rope out of the crevasse. Another such exercise involved lowering a climber into a crevasse and then setting up a pulley system so that the climber in the crevasse could be pulled out by those still on the surface. During my not especially extensive climbing experience I was involved in two helicopter evacuations, one off the glaciers of Mt Baker and the other off the glaciers of Mt Rainier, both assisting in injuries in other climbing parties. One of the things that attracted me to climbing is that it's a place where leadership and decision making really count. The leader has the lives of the members of his party in his hands. Anyway, that's the kind of experience I brought into Scouting when I became an Assistant Scoutmaster and a year later, Scoutmaster for five years.

The BSA policy is that AVOWED homosexuals are not eligible for membership. A Scout who keeps such information private and confidential is eligible for continued membership as I understand it. Ditto for a Scout who is working through such issues as described by Beavah. A Scout who makes a public and considered declaration of homosexuality would have to have his membership suspended pending further information and action. No different than any other declaration that a Scout was not going to abide by Scout rules.

It sounds like the Scoutmaster and other troop leaders should have protection from bullying and harassment by the forces of enlightenment, diversity and tolerance.

> I speak up for the JTE because I see it as a useful planning and leadership tool. If you don't find it useful, don't use it. I'm not twisting anyone's arm.

Personally I find that most people understand the concept of a private organization having control over its membership. Most people seem to understand that better than Federal Courts.

Membership Impact at Philmont in 2013 June 2329, Week 3: Focusing on the Main Thing; The Council Commissioner; District Commissioner and Assistant District Commissioner Training; Effective Roundtables; How to Conduct a Commissioner College; The Unit Commissioner July 1420, Week 6: Scouting in the Hispanic/Latino Community July 2127, Week 7: Focusing on the Main Thing; American Heritage Girls; Bringing Youth to Christ Through a Baptist Scouting Ministry; FBIFaith-Based Initiative; Scouting in the Catholic Church September 1521, Week 11: Recruiting and Serving Ethnic Markets I see that recruiting of Latinos gets its own week of training, and in addition there is another week of more general training in recruiting among various ethnic groups. These new communities are the key to expanding Scouting membership in my opinion. I see that American Heritage Girls are one focus among several for one week of training. Anyone likely to sign up for one or more of these courses?

In my opinion, the JTE is a useful exercise in goal setting and management. The metrics are a reasonable list of things a good unit might reasonably be doing. Identifying where a unit scored last year and setting goals for the current year and reviewing them periodically during the year may help units get to a level they want to be at. Some units may not want to do that --- which is fine. Others may find it a useful exercise.

You were right the last time Merlyn! No backpeddaling! You are just making disingenuous propaganda by return to your old, unsupported claims.