SeattlePioneer

> Here we have the culture clash neatly summarized. The culture of traditionalists includes religion, the culture of the new does not. Either you exclude religion or you don't. Of course, advocates of the new culture routinely exclude religion from the public square, from schools and such and take great pride in doing so, but they don't see it as "offending" those who have traditional views, or perhaps they relish the idea of offending such people. But Scouting is a private organization that advocates of the new don't control. Their writ doesn't run in Scouting. The shoe is on the other foot there, and it is their choice to either accept that norm or to get out.

You hardly ever get thisw kind of fun & adventure on a band outing. Helicopter rise? Cool!

Hmmmm. No one so far has said that they use Boys Life as a part of their regular program. Seems like Boys Life is really missing the boat on that.

Excellent post, Eamonn!

My DE often looks reproachfully at me when I haven't checked the "Boys Life Box." But I aint spending the scarce dollars of the families in the pack without a good reason to do so. The best reason I can think of would be that the Den Leaders would find enough utility in the magazine that they could use it as part of their program. What I should have done was get some extra copies I could spread around to Den Leaders and to parents at committee meetings and got their opinions and input for that early. Doing that about October would have been about right. Well, something else to think about for next year.

I don't know about others, but I'M impressed wen I see the Eagle Scout box check on a youth application by a father! At our parent meeting a week ago, a Tiger Cub partner who was also an Eagle Scout volunteered to be our much needed new Committee Chair! He's an engineer at Boeing.

Great! Perhaps I can be the Merlyn_LeRoy of the blog.

Ummm. No monthly Pack Committee meeting would be a big issue for me. I find them very useful, and always have reasonable attendance if parents and leaders are sent a couple of e-mail reminders. Also, they are part of the annual meeting plan and schedule. An added feature is that they only no more than an hour. If the Cubmaster isn't interested, I'd talk to the Committee Chair about scheduling Committee Meetings ( I call them parent meetings myself.)

Hello Second Class, Is this a pack or troop? Do you use Boys life as part of your program? Casual reading is fine, but I'm especially interested in if it's used as a part of your pack or den program.

Do you see value in Boys Life? Does your pack make use of Boys Life in their program? Does your Pack purchase Boys Life subscriptions for all Scouts when rechartering? Personally, I don't see much value for Boys Life for my pack unless Den Leaders wanted to use it as part of their program on a regular basis. My pack has quite a few low income families, and spending another $10/year is not something I would ask unless there is a good reason for doing so. So..... What use do you get from Boys Life if you subscribe, and what use is made of it as part of your den and pack program, if any?

My Cub Pack has a wide variation in family incomes, from self employed house cleaners to a Boeing engineer and attorney employed by the Federal government. Our basic charge is $5/month. So families registering in the fall pay $20 for September-December and $60 for the next calendar year. Families that sell $200 in popcorn get a free membership for the next year. Those that sell over $200 get 30% of the additional amount in a Scout Account that can be used for activities, uniforms or other Scout related expenses. Families decide if they want to participate in the popcorn sale or not. Those that prefer to pay cash for membership and activities are welcome to do so and can skip the popcorn sale. Families that want to work at selling popcorn can have a ***free*** Cub Scout program that does not lean on the family budget. Most families sold enough popcorn to get the free membership. One family sold $2,000 in popcorn. The pack membership fee covers our regular den and pack meeting expenses and inexpensive outings like hikes and such. Our upcoming swim at a public pool (regular admission charge) or Cub Scout Bowling Tournament ($15) require a cash payment which will be refunded by those have Scout account funds. After a couple of years of experience, this program seems to be working out well for us.

I'm guessing this means no American Heritage Girl program at this church....

> I'm afraid I see that as an exaggeration of the facts, Scout Nut. The Cubmaster has several important roles. One is taking charge of the program at pack meetings and pack activities. Another is supervising and supporting the den programs. Another is planning the pack schedule and program. There are many reasons why parents might need or desire to talk with the Cubmaster.

Hello hicountry, People are entitled to take from Scouting the things they find valuable and interesting. When adults have had enough, they are entitled to leave for new adventures in life. Thanks for your contributions while you were in Scouting! Go with God.

A Cubmaster who is saying "no" to parents who want a part in the program has the wrong attitude, by and large. Generally speaking it's vital for Cub Packs to be attracting parents into participating in the leadership of the pack. Pack leaders need to be vigilant in inviting parents to help with tasks and filling leadership positions.

> Train Den Leaders as needed and evaluate the quality of the program dens are offering. These can be vital functions. If a Den Leader or other adults in a den can't make it to a scheduled Den Meeting, the Cubmaster or ACM is the automatic backup.

> In addition to that, rationing out positions gives the SPL the political power to reward friends and punish political opponents, and to gain compliance with his leadership and motivate Scouts to take positions seriously and to work at them. That is at least as important as high minded reasons and is Practical Politics 101.

Sounds like an interesting idea. I think it is rather common for First Aid Merit Badge instruction to be done poorly because the instructors really haven't mastered many of the skills. It would be interesting to have the Red Cross put on a program designed to complete the Boy Scout Merit Badge requirements, rather than those of the Standard First Aid Course or whatever. I bet that would command respect. Another alternative would be to have Scouts, and perhaps adult leaders, sign up for the Standard First Aid Course and complete that together.

No nibbles? What kind of activities are you doing in you district or council to gain experience and recognition? The current DE for my district was the Program Director at a council summercamp in 2011. He was hired as a DE at the end of summer camp. In our council, we are concentrating on rechartering right now. A volunteer might find a role in assisting units in completing the rechartering process. In January, planning for the FOS campaign goes into full swing. I would suppose that there is an unlimited need for district and council volunteers to make that program work effectively. If you can update your resume showing current experience with rechartering, Friends of Scouting and recruiting in the spring, I would imagine council decision makers would be impressed by your experience and motivation.

Well, it's true that there is no requirement that a CM attend Den Meetings. However, Den Leaders may need someone to take charge of registering Scouts for an activity or doing other administrative chores to avoid being distracted by such things. I'm leading our Tiger Cub Den right now for lack of parents willing to do the job, and I know I can't do that and collect money as Treasurer at the same time, as an example. So ---- what kind of tasks need to be done? Can a Committee Member do those tasks? Those are probably things that a Committee member should be doing anyway. What a Cubmaster should really be doing when attending Den Meetings is checking on how Den Meetings are going, the quality of the program and leaders and how Scouts and parents are reacting to the program. If the Den Program is being well led, the Cubmaster needn't attend more often than is needed to verify that fact. A Cubmaster has a responsibility to help train new Den Leaders and to step in if Den Leadership has problems or is failing. Are those tasks being done? In my opinion, any Cubmaster who turns down the offer of an Assistant Cubmaster has rocks in his head. An Assistant Cubmaster is a Cubmaster in training who can step up to be Cubmaster as needed, and should be able to help the Cubmaster do the various tasks that a Cubmaster should be doing. > This is your real issue. The CC should be the one deciding on appointing Assistant Cubmaster(s) and resolving issues with the Cubmaster. The CC should see to it that a Committee member is attending Den Meetings to help out with administrative stuff if that is needed. Also, do you have monthly Committee/Parent meetings? That would be another venue to raise concerns and you need for help as a Den Leader. If you do have MONTHLY committee meetings, are they quality meeting with good attendance by pack leadership? There are lots of replies that could be made to your post. I will look with interest at the ideas other have on the issues you raise.

JM Hawkins posted on another thread:

There are lots of good reasons for having ceremonies and awards. Scouting encourages that, and an experienced Scouter can come up with a variety of thoughtful ways to do that. But perhaps it might have been better to invite a long time Scouter to be remembered at a Roundtable, Court of Honor or Pack meeting while he was still alive. One of the useful functions of such a ceremony would be to educate Scouts, Scouters and families on the kinds of service Scouting encourages. Having the living icon there would be more thoughtful, and more powerful, than doing the same thing after he is gone. This is to suggest to us all that we look at long serving Scouters and look for opportunities to thank them and recognize their achievements over a lifetime. > I have the privilege of sitting on my council's committee that will be selecting Silver Beaver recipients for next year. Two Scouters in my district are among those being nominated, both have more than sixty years in Scouting. One maintained his membership while he was an infantryman in Vietnam and while he is growing old and feeble, serves as a Chartered Organization Rep and Committee member for a Troop. The other continues to serve as a Unit Commissioner. I think we ought to be making a point of recognizing and thanking folks like this while they are still alive.

Like a lot of things in Scouting, if this "one unit" idea is adopted by national, individual units will probably have freedom to decide whether or not they want to adopt that model or remain as two units. Heck --- we have "combined units" now with the Tiger Cub, Cub Scouts and Webelos programs combined in one pack! If a pack wanted to do so, they could set up three packs, one for each program. For several years I've been working to coordinate the programs and leadership of the pack I belong to and a neighboring Scout Troop which needs more boys and for which I'm Unit Commissioner. The Webelos Den was invited out to an afternoon of camping experience by the Troop, and they will probably combine with the Troop in attending the Klondike Derby in January. The Troop committee that organizes the Troop popcorn sale assisted the pack in getting the popcorn sale started. So you don't HAVE to have formal organizational ties in order to have cooperation between units. Unfortunately, too often Scout units remain isolated from each other and don't see the opportunities and benefits for that co operation.

> Saving packs from collapsing will save troops from collapsing. A pack that has effective leadership might have the strength to keep recruiting and fund raising going when a troop is weak and might recognize a weak troop and make an effort to recruit new leaders for the troop. Still, JM Hawkins makes some good points about the difficulties of managing larger units. I think that does take significantly higher skill levels that are a lot harder to find. But weak units tend to be small units. The limitations JM Hawkins identifies probably aren't as relevant to weak and failing units as they are to large and successful units.

Hello Nike, My council uses e-mail addresses from apps to send out a monthly e-newsletter. I certainly use the e-mail addresses I get off applications!