SeattlePioneer

Sounds like an excellent SPL. Mom obviously doesn't have a clue about Scouting.

My Cub Pack got a volunteer to serve as Pack Committee Chair last night. today I sent the following e-mail to him in hopes that he would be able to complete the adult leader application process: Thanks for your interest in supporting our Cub Scout Pack by serving as Pack Committee Chair! I wanted to help walk you through the initial process of completing that appointment. 1. Completing the adult leader application you already have. Turning that in to me at the Monday Den meeting would be fine. Be sure to sign the authorization for a background check. 2. Completing the BSA (Boy Scouts of America) Youth Protection training, which can be done on line, usually in about a half hour. To take that training: You may or may not need to use Iternet Exp You don't have a Member ID yet, so choose the second option that does not require an ID number. Select this option: I am new and don't know my member ID, or I am not a member Move over to the right side of the page and select "next" Let me know if you have difficulty working through this BSA website and I'll try to be of assistance. When you complete the training, you will need to print out a certificate of completion. Turn in one of the certificates with your adult leader application please. Make a note of your user name and password so you can reference that account in the future. ((This degree of complexity is a waste of time!))

Hello GK, Sorry to hear about all the problems. I guess I shouldn't feel sorry for myself about the two applications I personally filed to appoint new Chartered Organization Reps that were completed as Committee Members, probably for the good reason that the applications for COR need to be signed by the Institutional head. I have relatively few issues with completing Adult Leader applications that I don't cause myself with errors of one kind or another, and I've gotten pretty good about avoiding those for most purposes. The bottom line appears to be that council staff can do the job of processing adult leader applications well or poorly. My council does the job well, and yours does it poorly. BSA appears to be responsible for this problem mainly by creating an overly complex administrative process that is difficult for volunteers and council staff to operate reliably. Again, my condolences. I would be having emotional melt downs if I was experiencing the problems you describe. I imagine it's a lot worse for volunteers in your council who can't make the system work and have no idea why. Or perhaps ignorance is bliss.

Congratulations! Although my experience is that you "work your ticket" until you are old and feeble, just like the song says. Seattle Pioneer Wood Badge 1985

Hello resqman, Sorry about the divorce. Somehow our public authorities are unconcerned about the plague of divorce which destroys 'way too many families. Of course our public policies encourage divorce for any reason or no reason at all. You might consider looking up the council and district you live in and visiting the district Boy Scout Roundtable to get acquainted with the programs and Scouters in your area. There are always interesting things adult leaders can help with, and I'm sure there are troops that would find your varied Scouting experience valuable.

> I would suppose the main reason is that younger adults aren't stepping up into leadership position in the numbers needed. The 'boomer generation, like me, are hanging on. But that is not going to last all that much longer.

> I would suppose the main reason is that younger adults aren't stepping up into leadership position in the numbers needed. The 'boomer generation, like me, are hanging on. But that is not going to last all that much longer.

> Two units working together intelligently are likely to be a good deal stronger than two units that are isolated from each other. A lot of packs and troops go through strong and weak cycles of leadership. They can crash and burn on the downward leg. Often when a pack and troop are chartered by the same chartered organization an independent pack or troop can crash even though the other program is healthy and might be able to help if they knew about the problems and were welcome to help. I don't know whether a single program would avoid that, and the current two programs can work together if the leaders are smart about it. As a Unit Commissioner I work with packs and a troop to help deal with weaknesses and have avoided having the same pack crash twice in eight years. Continuity of leadership and leadership skill is important to keeping programs going with quality programs. In my experience units tend to be too isolated and can easily get on a road to failure and actually fail without effective support to turn things around. That's a gigantic waste we really can't afford. I don't know that a unified program is a good solution for that problem. Maybe, maybe not. As a Unit Commissioner, I've been able to intervene to turn things around, but I know other Unit Commissioners who have seen that happening but were unable to or did not act, and pretty much were spectators as unit failed.

Yes, I think aquaticeagle is right. I know that as District Membership Chair I do not work for the DE. My preference is to work as a team with the DE, with each working on aspects of the membership issue as is mutually agreed upon. That's the way I worked with the two previous DEs. With the current DE not so much. He does what he wants and has little interest in planning activities together. So he does what he does and I do what I do. That still works, although not as well.

I have serious issues to think about....

He might well qualify for one of Scouting's heroism awards. I'd seriously consider completing the application and see if he gets an award that will honor the boy, his unit and Scouting for life. http://www.usscouts.org/advance/heroism.asp (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

> Actually, F Scouter is exactly correct here. In fact, it is the freedom individual units have to set their own program and emphasize different things in their program that allows Kudu to establish his own standards for rank advancement if he wants to do so. He's not adhering to the BSA recommended program in the description of the standards and methods he describes in his post. But frankly, if he wants to have a more rigorous program I wouldn't stand in his way.

Repeating a post six six six six six six times is a new record I think! And I think we have jumped the shark on Wood Badge around here....

Alternative swim program: sink

> Unfortunately, this is just the kind of Wood Badge marketing effort I've come to not like, because I've seen it so many times. Wood Badge is 'way over promoted, in my opinion. At its worst, you have the ugly beading ceremony described in the opening post of this thread. Let's save most of the promotion for Scouting events for youth, OK?

Hello Big Bovine, I've never been married and have no children. I was recruited by a friend of mine to volunteer with a troop because of my varied outdoor experience. I started working with a Cub Pack that was down to a single boy four years ago. It's in a low income neighborhood and we're still struggling to have a good complement of leaders. I spent two years as Cubmaster and additional years as a Den Leader. I'm the defacto Tiger Cub Den Leader this year until I can get some parents to take charge. I'm always looking to motivate parents to take over jobs that I am doing. I've found Scouting rewarding, and I think parents who are leaders have a real opportunity to improve the relationship they have with their children, perhaps for the rest of their life. Unfortunately, too often we trap people in leadership roles and they can become burdensome, especially when they aren't getting the support they deserve from other adults. I don't blame those folks for feeling resentful and anxious to get out. It's a shame, but the problem is that they are being taken advantage of. I have feelings like that myself not infrequently, and for the same reason.

What's the issue? The COR can kick out any adult leader or Scout by making a request to the council.

Hello bigbovine, I started as a Assistant Scoutmaster in 1981, and served as Scoutmaster for a Troop from 1992-1987. These days I'm a Unit Commissioner for a pack and troop, Treasurer for a pack and District Membership Chair. Frankly, I wouldn't judge any Den Leader, Cubmaster, Scoutmaster or Committee Chair harshly for being ready to go on to something else with their life ---- especially if they haven't been getting the help they ought to have from other parents. Continuity of leadership IS a big issue for Troops and especially Cub Packs. I rebuilt the failed pack for which I'm UC eight years ago, and prevented it from failing this past summer when the grossly overworked Cubmaster had had enough. Effective leadership is the big issue from what I see. Too often leaders aren't all that they might be, and aren't effective in getting parents and other to help. And the farther down a neighborhood is on the income/education scale the tougher it is to find effective leaders with the time and inclination to spend as leaders. And speaking as a Unit Commissioner, good unit commissioners can be a help in providing that experience and continuity of leadership. I'd encourage experienced leaders to consider accepting an appointment as UC to help provide some guidance to a pack or troop or two.

Hello 5yearscouter, Thanks for the blow by blow description of registering an adult. It's as simple as that, eh?! You need to add a special procedure to register Chartered Organization Reps. Apparently if you register a new COR the application has to be signed by the Institutional Head. We don't want to leave anything out from your blow-by-blow description!

> The one with the evidence to support their case, I would hope.

Everyone knows that youth membership number are a BIG DEAL for councils and BSA national. But how about numbers of registered adult leaders. I've never had council or national leaders remark about numbers of adult leaders. As long as you have the minimum to recharter, you are good to go. Anyone have contrary experience? SHOULD the number of registered adult leaders be given more emphasis?

I AM the Unit Commissioner for one of the two units where I assisted in trying to change the COR during the year. And yes I had the correct code entered. I have to presume it didn't go through because the apps weren't signed by the IH as described earlier. However, since no one at the council explained why, that's still a supposition.

It comes down to a political question of what kind of government you want to have. I maintain that the abuses of the Supreme Court have converted the United States from the republic it was intended to be to an aristocracy of judges that decide for every person and institution what their rights, liberties and obligations will be. I'm talking about an aristocracy in the sense of what Plato or Aristotle described as political types. Personally I oppose that and I would like to see the elected branches of government take the actions necessary to cut down the arrogance of the courts and reform their exaggerated ideas of their powers.

Yes, Merlyn-- The Supreme Court issues "opinions" and court orders telling pretty much any institution or person what to do. But whatever you call it, they are taking enforcement action when they do so. A quibble about words is not a substantial objection.

Hello Eagle, I must say I am getting mighty tired of the council imposing new tasks on me.