SeattlePioneer

If your troop has a history of doing 50 milers, I'd have this discussion with the Scouters and Scouts who lead those trips. They probably have their own standards and recommendations, and I'd give maximum consideration to those.

Hello Amangi Mizin, Thanks for the benefit of your experience in recruiting council volunteers. My district is way short of volunteers, and we haven't been succesful in doing much recruiting, either. That's been a problem for me as District Membership chair, too. Your #4 of starting people off with easy tasks is oft given by BSA of course, but your post caused me to consider how that might be applied to recruiting additional membership volunteers, which I've had little success at doing. Now I'm thinking that it might be wise to invite people to attend a recruiting night that I or the District Executive are conducting. An additional person is always welcome there, and it would be an excellent introduction to a Membership activity for new people. Getting someone started at that might lead on to additional support activity or to aiding units with their membership events. Sometimes it's helpful to have a new context to apply old ideas. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my earlier questions.

Hello Amangi Mizin, Thanks for the benefit of your experience in recruiting council volunteers. My district is way short of volunteers, and we haven't been succesful in doing much recruiting, either. That's been a problem for me as District Membership chair, too. Your #4 of starting people off with easy tasks is oft given by BSA of course, but your post caused me to consider how that might be applied to recruiting additional membership volunteers, which I've had little success at doing. Now I'm thinking that it might be wise to invite people to attend a recruiting night that I or the District Executive are conducting. An additional person is always welcome there, and it would be an excellent introduction to a Membership activity for new people. Getting someone started at that might lead on to additional support activity or to aiding units with their membership events. Sometimes it's helpful to have a new context to apply old ideas. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my earlier questions.

As I think about it, the main reason to avoid the announcement song or Gilwell song is so that you don't wear it out. I'd reserve the announcement song for Scout Camps, where it is a fun activity for Scouts for a couple of years of summer camps. If it's used much outside of summer camp, I'd suppose it starts to lose its fun and freshness and will descend into being boring. The same thing with Wood Badge beading ceremonies. It was meaningful to experience that the first few times I saw it, but after seeing it 'way too many times, I consider it to be boring and an imposition on those who have seen it too many times. Start some new traditions for your pack or troop! Mostly what it takes is some care and imagination. And please quit over promoting Wood Badge, especially by taking up people's time at meetings and especially at meetings where most people have been repeatedly exposed to Wood Badge presentations.

I disagree with Basement 2o% guideline. People can carry a lot more than that if they are in condition to do so. If you are in an area with reasonable access to mountainous areas, weekend backpacking is recommended for conditioning. If you have hills near by, hiking up 400 feet of elevation or more on a daily basis I would recommend. If you are a "Michigan Scouter" I seem to recall that the highest point in the whole state of Michigan is about 500 feet above the surrounding terrain. Anyway --- the heck with your son. A motivated boy will likely soldier through such a hike. What are YOU going to do to get in condition??

> That's very fine work. Any particular methods that have proven to be effective in recruiting additional volunteers?(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Hello Amangi Mizin, > It sounds like you have developed a well staffed program. I wonder if it's wise to try to repurpose those volunteers in quite a different direction? I'd be concerned that your volunteers would just evaporate as they tried to meet very different needs taking quite different skills. You are also proposing to enter into functions that should be the province of your Council Commissioner, Roundtable Commissioners and Unit Commissioners. You must have done a terrific job of attracting volunteers for your programs! What were the methods that have led to that success?

Apparently I WAS mistaken when I suggested that Merlyn could look in a mirror to see an example of an intolerant atheist. Looking is clearly not enough, judging from his remarks. An extensive course of therapy would apparently be necessary for him to be able to recognize his own biases and prejudices.

No doubt a sustainability Merit Badge will be able to explain the following phenomena: U.S. oil output is surging so fast that the United States could soon overtake Saudi Arabia as the world's biggest producer. Driven by high prices and new drilling methods, U.S. production of crude and other liquid hydrocarbons is on track to rise 7 percent this year to an average of 10.9 million barrels per day. This will be the fourth straight year of crude increases and the biggest single-year gain since 1951. The boom has surprised even the experts. "Five years ago, if I or anyone had predicted today's production growth, people would have thought we were crazy," says Jim Burkhard, head of oil markets research at IHS CERA, an energy consulting firm. http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2019502329_apususoilboom.html

> It's very simple, Merlyn: Look in a mirror. And frankly Merlyn, your behavior on these forums on behalf of atheists is ample good reason why they should be excluded. A certain number of atheists are always going to resist any degree of religious expression in a program. Intolerant atheists have an agenda to drive religion out of the public square, and out of any private square they can sqauk about. So while I have no objection to having tolerant atheists in Scouting programs, I would be the first to boot Merlyn out of Scouting if he showed up in a unit where I was a leader. He just can't help being perpetually disruptive about this issue, and the best way to resolve it is to exclude him. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

> I continue to suggest that Scoutmasters run their programs, not BSA. I'd consider it perfectly reasonable to decide that you have X, Y and Z Scouts at a particular moment and that you have earned the award when X, Y and Z Scouts have obtained the required Merit Badges, even if A, B and C Scouts have joined the troop in the mean time.

In case you haven't noticed, Merlyn, God is an integral part of the Scouting program. If you can't deal with that, DON'T JOIN. You want your civil liberties as an atheist respected. You should respect the civil liberties of religious people in turn. Atheists have no right to join BSA, nor should they expect any accommodation for their non belief.

Mmmmm. I think I'd start with a goal of ten.

I also like the idea of using the resources of a successful pack to help "seed" a new pack with program and leadership at another location, as suggested by Nike. As a District Membership Chair, my bias would be for successful packs to make a point of helping spread Scouting by starting and support new packs in new areas. Start them as a branch of the home pack, using a common program and with the parent pack helping to get things going and recruiting new families. Then let the new pack charter on its own after a few years of development. Again, I haven't done this, but it sounds like a keen idea to me!

To me, Scouting is about boys being confronted by the wilderness and deciding for themselves how to deal with the challenges that produces. I'd start out with some easy backpacking trips so that the Scouts can learn what those challenges are and decide how to manage those. You are proposing to make those deicisons for the Scouts in advance, which I would avoid doing, myself. Patrols don't need specialized cook gear to start. Take regular kitchen gear -- it cooks fine. You don't need tents. A tarp or two per Patrol and practice setting them up will be fine. Sleeping bags can be purchased cheaply at thrift shops. On the other hand having everyone get along with a blanket (adults included) might be an interesting adventure. Backpacks are often available at thrift shops too. You could experiment with a "no stoves" backpack trip. You might consider carrying only one stove for all and using that only to heat water that everyone uses in common. Lots of options. Keep it simple to start and then let the Scouts set their own priorities for gear. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

> Interesting question. "The list" starts out with Merit Badges that actually require you to get off your behind to earn them. Unfortunately, it then includes a bunch that can be earned sitting down. Personally, I don't see much distinction between the list and your list. My interpretation would be that each Scout would have to earn one or more Merit Badges from the list, however. However, unit leaders run their programs. If I had a good reason for substituting a Merit Badge from your list to one on the list, I'd very likely do it. I might also consider using 'the list' and limiting the Merit Badges there to ones that require you to get off your behind. I've sorta gotten over the idea that BSA knows best for all units and Scouts. I think that role is best filled by a good Scoutmaster, not BSA in most cases.

Mmmmmm. The essence of Scouting is that living and surviving in the outdoors and wild country teaches lessons of character. Rather than elaborate human relations training, I'd suggest that what Scoutmaster's need the most is competence and experience in leading outdoor adventures, when Boy Scouts can learn the essential lessons of Scouting by dealing with nature in it's raw forms. To a large extent, Scouting should be a process of self discovery for boys and adults, I suggest. The most profound experience in Scouting to me is usually when a boy becomes a Patrol Leader for the first time. Usually the boy has been following orders or taking directions from older Scouts for months, and he usually imagines what a great day it will be when he gets to order others around. Usually that experience is a disappointment to the new Patrol Leader, who discovers that getting others to do what he wants is more complicated than he supposed. A Scoutmaster usually needn't be around for that kind of self discovery to happen.

It's difficult to have a very meaningful discussion of a "sustainability" merit badge without knowing the content that will be included. Since Packsaddle claims Xpertise in this area, perhaps he might like to suggest some content he thinks would be worthwhile.

Hello Eagle, I see I wasn't being clear. I'm talking about NOT splitting a large pack. Keep the same pack organization. But to cut pack meetings down to size, have two pack meetings, one for Tiger Cubs and Wolves the other for Bear and Webelos --- or whatever seems right. Seems to me that that would allow pack meeting to be more age appropriate in content. And one objection to large packs is that it takes too long to hand out awards. I'm theorizing that dividing up pack meetings would answer these issues better. Also, boys LIKE the opportunity to associate with older boys. Being "promoted" into the "older boys" pack meetings seems like it would be popular. You could also consider more age appropriate activities, with less competitive Pinewood Derbies for younger boys and sharper competition for older Scouts.

> That's a very good point. I'm thinking about inviting those transferring to a troop to continue to submit receipts to the pack for Scout Account expenses and having the pack pay them. Any funds left after a year would be retained by the pack.

I've always imagines options to splitting a large pack. For example, have two Pack meetings, one for Tigers and Wolves, a second for Bears and Webelos. Not, I regret to say, a problem with which I've had actual experience.

In the beginning (well, 1910) God created Scouting.

That sounds like an issue between the previous Scout Troop and the family. Some units will transfer balances to a different unit, others wont. I'd stay out of it other than to say that your troop will maintain Scout accounts for boys in the troop, if indeed you do.

It's quite true that we don't know the content of the "sustainability" Merit Badge. Perhaps it will contain couple of quarters of college economics to give a realistic basis upon which to build a concept of sustainability that makes sense. It's a complicated subject to treat in a meaningful way. To approach it in a simple way (use less of everything) is deceptive and mindless. Unfortunately, a deceptive and mindless approach seems the more likely to me. But I'd be glad to be surprised.

Hello Horizon, Thank you for the reference. I would suppose that this law was passed recently and I would be surprised if it were around during any of the recently reported incidents. Furthermore, I think it's obnoxious to have 25 pages of regulations making a wide variety of people responsible for making half baked reports. That's California, I suppose, a good state to stay away from.