sctmom

Congratulations and thanks for the link to the picture!

See my post under Camping about getting moms to camp. WE MUST FEED PEOPLE --- it's in the secret mother's handbook, right along with "That's dangerous, you'll put somebody's eye out."

1. Flushies!!! Try to camp where there are good, clean flushable toilets and at least some running water to wash your hands. If you MUST have porta potties, have more than one designated as "female". 2. Get the women who do camp to tell all the great stories. 3. Air mattresses. 4. Let them know they don't have to do all the work, that you men are going to cook and clean, etc. Make it a vacation for the women. 5. You are probably safer camping than going to the mall. 6. A tent big enough to change your clothes in. 7. Find out what luxury they like and provide it if possible. 8. Find out what they hate at home (phone ringing, TV, etc.) and make sure it is NOT at camp. (okay, you do have to take the kids when you are Scout camping) If possible, start them out by having them come for the day. Then talk them into JUST one night. Do it for you children. They will love having mom along. I grew up camping. Shoot, I was camping before I was born and shortly thereafter (before good disposable diapers). About the only vacations we took were camping. My dad did all the cooking and did a lot of the dish washing. My mother went to a Cub Scout campout last year and loved it (she was so thankful she doesn't have small children anymore). My first Cub Scout camping trip, I was NOT excited about going. I had not camped in years and there were no showers. Then I realized this was for about 24 hours. There are a lot of things you can endure for 24 hours especially when it comes to your kids. I was hooked! Can't camp often enough now. I've also heard that another good reason to bring moms along is that they will wake up if they hear children during the night. The men just sleep right through it.

The information I found online said that if a private organization wants your SSN for any reason and you don't want to give it to them, do business elsewhere. There are no laws governing them private organizations about this. If a government org wants it they must provide a privacy statement. Any org invovled in what money you make (employee or bank) is required to get your SSN.

It is a sexual thing! I'm not saying the older boy is homosexual. This is sexual harrassment --- unwanted sexual advances, doesn't matter the intent!!!! This is the type of thing that could cause the victim to hurt himself or another person. Do this in the school or the workplace and you are GONE! Doesn't matter about the gender of the people involved, it is sexual harrassment. What else is going in this troop? The older boy obviously knew he could get away with this and knew even if he admitted it that he would suffer no consequences. Anyone read the booklet at the front of the Boy Scout handbook? How about Youth Protection training? If I was a parent in this troop I would be livid. If the older boy has never done anything like this before (hard to believe) I acceptable to letting him back in after a suspension and some counseling. You can lose this one boy OR you can lose most of the troop. Which is better? I think the adults should also think about how they would have felt if they were treated that way. Most men don't take kindly to being hit on by another man, even if it was a joke. The older boy should have been sent home immediately. I don't care what time it was nor how far his parents had to drive. I would have had 2 adults sit up and stare holes throw him until his parents arrived to remove him. Also, the younger boy needs to be commended privately for being brave in face of danger, told that this was not his fault and he did the right thing in telling. The older boy remaining at camp made this an unsafe environment for the younger one. Registered leader or not, if I say my son is in danger, you better remove the problem immediately or you become part of the problem. Grrrrrrr...don't mess with baby bears because mama bear is nearby!

Geez, Yaworski, I thought I had the smallest, skinniest scout living in my house. Sounds like you have me beat. My son can wear the size 8 now that he gained weight since February, still has to be careful to not put heavy objects in his pockets. If they expect brand new Webelos to wear the green pants at the end of 3rd grade they better start making smaller sizes.

Ebay is great for getting uniform pieces. I have gotten my son one pair of long pants in his current size and one pair in the next size up. Both current style. Don't think I paid a total of more than $20. Just be sure that you are buying the current style, unless you want something else.

I don't really care for the age-specific hats. I think the neckerchiefs get worn more and do a great job of designating the different groups of Cubs. The other great thing about the neckerchief is all the things you can do with it! A great game is to tell the boys when you throw the neckerchief in the air they have to laugh or yell as loud as they can, when it hits the floor they have to be quiet. Great way to break up announcements (no,no, don't sing) or award presentations. Vary how far from the floor you throw the neckerchief. Or do I like I did and drop the thing as soon as you pick it up --- you get this very short burst of laughter and then absolute silence! And let's not forget the game of fireman's drag. This game also excites all those parents who just washed that uniform for the meeting. Shows the durability of the uniform as well!

That must be a local policy or a mistaken GSUSA employee. I know Girl Scouts meet at our local church along with the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts (not all on the same night). They even do Girl Scout leader training at the church.

D_seibold, What was it that GSUSA did not agree with about the church? What was the church wanting to do that went against GSUSA? Pepper, In my opinion the Girl Scouts Gold award is tougher to earn than the Eagle. Are Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts offering the "same" program? Nope, they have different missions and goals. Girl Scouting is for ALL girls, it is to encourage Girls to be their best, to discover traditional and non-traditional careers, and a big focus on community service. From the GSUSA website: "Girl Scouts of the USA is the world's pre-eminent organization dedicated solely to girls all girls where, in an accepting and nurturing environment, girls build character and skills for success in the real world. In partnership with committed adult volunteers, Girl Scouts cultivate their full individual potential. The qualities they develop in Girl Scouting leadership, values, social conscience, and conviction about their own self-worth serve them all their lives. " From the BSA website: "The purpose of the Boy Scouts of Americaincorporated on February 8, 1910, and chartered by Congress in 1916is to provide an educational program for boys and young adults to build character, to train in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and to develop personal fitness." BSA accomplishes their goals in an outdoor setting. Girl Scouts accomplishes their goals in different settings. Is one better than the other? I don't think you can compare them. They have different purposes and goals, and serve different groups.

"Swimming- some are afraid of water, and WON'T learn to swim.. " Shouldn't the troop help the boy learn why he needs to learn basic swimming skills? "Immaturity - some just are afraid of all that outdoor stuff. " Is that immaturity or lack of examples? It has been my experience that kids who see adults enjoying the outdoors, will do the same. Those that hear "eewww dirt, bugs, yuck" will do the same. "Program structure - Cubs often do fun things like skits, games, playing, and just hanging out, that often don't fit into many Troop programs. " I thought Troop programs were supposed to include these things. I would quit too if I'm not having fun and getting to socialize. "Time - not just sports, but other activities. As boys get older, they do have more choices in activities. Ans we know that sports teams put more emphasis on being at practice and activites as they get older. " This is where being flexible about attendance is needed. Some boys will disappear from scouting during football or baseball season. But you shouldn't someone point them to the Sports merit badge to show them they can have both sports and scouting? "Parental support - not just their time, but camping equipment is expensive. Some don't want to invest." Depends on the troop. Our troop does not require anything from the boy to camp except a bag to put clothes in and a sleeping bag. If the family cannot afford this, see the scoutmaster, there is a fund to help with this. Plus all the proceeds from popcorn sale goes to the boy's account, he can then buy the equipment he needs. We have a blessed troop. "Leadership - we often make the transition look like some great rite of passage, and we expect little boys to grow into young men while they are "walking over that bridge". Sometimes, we forget that they are still kids who likes doing the same things they did on the other side of the bridge. " This is very true. Even 15 year old's are still kids. This is apparently an area that is hard for most adults to deal with. It takes more time and effort to have a troop that is for 11 year olds and 17 year olds, but as Bob White has pointed out the resources are there in the BSA program.

Twocubdad writes: "The second largest group are boys (read parents) who are justs shopping. "We did Cub Scouts this year, we think we'll try soccer this fall." I have seen a lot of this. Also I saw a lot of parents say at the end of Webelos "Well we did the Cub Scout thing and have decided not to do Boy Scouts". The two are seen as different programs. Webelos and Arrow of Light are seen as the end of the line. This is most likely due to our Webelos not being involved with a troop like they should have been.

And the camping and other events include ALL family members. I've heard of some packs that still only have dads to camp. Our pack included everyone, after all it was FAMILY camping. We had a few grandmothers who enjoyed going along.

I read a book a couple of years ago by Joan Borysenko that talks about how women approach religion. I think it is called "A Woman's Path To God". I don't necessarily agree with everything she says but she brings out some good points about how women and men approach things such as religion. In general women tend to be more accepting of other's "paths" and men see one way to reach a goal. I'm sure there are other authors out there who talk about this. I think this contributes to some of the differences in Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. my 2 cents

Ed, You are correct that you have rights as parents to decide what is best for YOUR child. I also have to fight this year to get my child in any mainstream classes. I think it is great the special ed classes exist but that is not the best place for MY child. Schools are not set up to teach social skills. They are set up for teaching academics in one way and one way only. The teachers don't have the time and/or resources to do anything different. They don't have the options that maybe a one room school house did. Children must conform or they get in trouble. There is no time in my son's school day for him to interact with his peers. Last week I had a discussion with some other adults in the troop that my son was complaining about some name calling that was happening in the troop. Nothing very severe, yet my son wanted to use it an excuse to quit. One parent pointed out that my son didn't know how to "pick back". He's an only child. Also, you don't "pick back" at school. He's not used to being in the situation Scouting puts him in --- a situation where he has to deal with different personalities on his own. That's the kind of social skills I'm talking about. Also, school doesn't give the kids a chance to work things out on their own. They are trained to go tell an adult. I believe this is one reason the transition to Boy Scouting is tough for some boys. They can't imagine having to figure out a problem by themselves. Timmy won't do his fair share of clean up -- Let's tell an adult. Uh-oh, in Scouting they want US to handle it! WHOA! WE can't handle it, we are kids, the teachers have made that perfectly clear to us that we can't be trusted to go to the bathroom and back. One other comment about kids and schools. When I was in college, I found it amazing how some people who excelled in high school could not make it in college when they were given responsibility. Also, some of the kids who struggled in high school then found the freedom and responsibility of college was just what they needed.

Did Cub Scout Basic training soon after becoming a Leader (in the first year of Webelos for my son), included Youth Protection. That was about 20 months ago. Now we are with a troop. I'm waiting for Boy Scout Leader training in October. Didn't take it in February/March because I wasn't sure what I was going to do. Looks like the next outdoor leader training is next February in our district. No one in our council is offering Cub Scout BALOO training yet!!!!! Like someone else said, I read everything I can get my hands on and then read it again. Then frequent boards like this one and keep my mind and ears open to what is being said.

Bugle writes: "Take a thousand pictures and make a big bulletin board showing off what you have been doing. The parents have no idea how great the outing was. Johnny won't tell them...that's YOUR job!" The adults in our troop that went to summer camp took digital cameras (they are cheap now days) and took lots of pictures. Including pictures of the inside of tents, the spiders, the dining hall, etc. Then copied them to computer CD's for each boy who went. As a parent, I can see what my son did all week, how much fun he was having and I have pictures of him doing it. Also, after each campout, everyone who attended (boys and adults) must rate the campout from 1 to 10, 10 being best. Then they must say WHY they gave it that rating. For those who didn't go on the campout, they get to hear how cool it was. It gets down right funny sometimes to hear all the new scouts give a campout a 9 or 10, then the older scouts (who got in trouble on the campout) give it a 4. Usually you get to hear some great little story about what happened and the boys start giggling so bad remembering it they can't talk. I know Boy Scouting is not family camping like Cub Scouts. But as a single mom, Cub Scout events were one of the best things for me and my son. It gave us something fun to do, usually low cost, I had adults to talk to and he had other boys to play with.

I keep waiting for some of the men to comment on this. Don't be afraid! I think the issue is more about the SM being overprotective then just about Sager being female. How do you deal with people who are so overprotective they won't let the boys put up a tent?

ROFL at Bob. Too funny!!!!!

Here is another picture: http://www.nps.gov/whho/Statues/boy_scout_memorial.htm The page also has a little background, including: The bronze statue consists of three figures: a Boy Scout, a woman and a man. Each figure symbolizes the idea of the great and noble forces that are an inspiring background of each Scout as he goes about the business of becoming a man and a citizen. The male figure symbolizes physical, mental and moral fitness, love of country, good citizenship, loyalty, honor, courage and clean living. He carries a helmet, a symbol of masculine attire and a live oak branch, a symbol of peace and of strength. The female figure symbolizes enlightenment with the light of faith, love of God, high ideals, liberty, justice, freedom, democracy and love of fellow man; symbolizing the spiritual qualities of good citizenship. She holds high the eternal flame of God's Holy Spirit. The figure of the Boy Scout represents the hopes of all past, present and future scouts around the world and the hopes of every home, church and school that all that is great and noble in the Nation's past and present will continue to live in them and through them in many generations to come.

Eagle74, I think you explain it very well. Thanks for you post. I have worked in the computer industry for over 17 years. The situation often arises in corporate America where a younger person is the manager. Or the younger person is the guru and the older manager isn't really a computer type. It is very hard for some adults to except. When I was in my mid-20's I worked as a civilian on an Air Force Base. I also worked with a lot of retired military (officers and enlisted). The enlisted men were all about 40 at the time. They were very uncomfortable with us mid-20-year-olds not jumping every time they said to do something. They were not our bosses. We respected their knowledge of the "business" and felt they should expect our knowledge of the computers. One day one of the older guys said "If we were in the military, I would be your boss because I'm older than you." Then someone pointed out "No you would not because I have a college degree, I would most likely be an officer." We got along much better after that.

There is something for every parent/guardian to do in a troop. Let it be known you will help those who have never camped but would like. For those who don't want to camp, there are lots of other things to do. Recruit the adults to be on the committee, to be merit badge counselors, etc. These boys may also have other adults in their lives that would like to help -- aunts, uncles, older siblings, etc. Make it clear that EVERYONE is encouraged to be involved. Let them know how they can get trained. Also, be understanding about kids that go out of town for the summer and other school vacation times.

Is the SM trained? Does sound like he is overprotective. I insisted my son and his friend learn about starting fires as first year Webelos. How will his boys advance in Scouting if they don't learn how to light the stoves, lanterns and fires? This is why you TEACH them about the proper way to do it and about safety first. I have no real advice except to hang in there. Does sound like you need another man to talk to the SM.

I wasn't very awake when I posted the first message this morning. Here is a web link to Flat Stanley project. http://flatstanley.enoreo.on.ca/

My son opened up a little more last night. The mention of patrol only activities really perked up his little ears. Also, found a merit badge he wants to do on his own. SM is okay with the patrol doing some activities on their own. Now he did ask if there was a video game merit badge. So I pointed him to computers and electronics. Who knows, one day there might be a video game merit badge! They could study the history of video games, the uses of computer simulation, the impact of video games on society and physical fitness, the use of video games in education, and design their own game. Hey, this is starting to sound like a good idea! Maybe a Boy Scout video game where you tie knots and build pioneering projects! My son has a hard time in large crowds. A lot of ADD kids get overwhelmed and so distracted by a large group. The smaller, quiet kids get pushed to the side.