sctmom

I think very few people have their own darkroom anymore. Look at how pictures are processed at your local drugstore -- feed in the film, chunk, chunk, out come the pictures. Digital photography should definitely be included.

Yaworski writes: "It doesn't strike me that being mostly mainstreamed in classes is the same as being mainstreamed in a Scouting environment. " I have to laugh at that because the school said the exact opposite to me just a few weeks ago "well that was summer camp, that doesn't mean he will do well in a regular classroom." This article strikes very close to home with me. My son has a problem soiling himself. If anyone from our troop is reading this, it is the first they have heard of it. No, I didn't tell them before summer camp. I debated on it and decided that I felt he could handle and perhaps he SHOULD handle it on his own. Apparently no one found out. Why does he do it? Heck if I know, nor do any of the numerous specilists know. Has he been teased? Yep, many times. It is not a physical problem. He doesn't want to take the time to go to the bathroom and eventually nature takes it course. Am I trained at dealing with it? NO! Is this what I signed up for when I became a parent? NO! Was this boy scout in Kentucky able to clean himself? I think that is an important question. I can understand not taking on the extreme autistic child I know of that smears her feces on the wall. But how much training does it take to look at the child and say "go get clean clothes and take care of this". And to tell the other boys to leave him alone. Maybe the boy hasn't had this problem in a long time and the mother saw no need in telling the other adults. Let me tell you what happens when you tell people your child has this problem -- first the "looks" at you and your child, the whispering behind your backs, the questions of "geez, why doesn't he just GO?", why don't you try THIS, etc. Then every time someone passes gas, my son gets in trouble and has to go change his clothes (this has happened at school before). Trust me, we have considered EVERY possible reason why he does this. We have tried every possible way of getting it under control. Since first grade he has seen 3 medical doctors, 3 pyscharists, and 2 counselors, plus lots of people at school. I've been blamed by school officials and even my own family that it is somehow MY fault or that he chooses to do this. It isn't for attention. When he has an incident, he becomes very angry at himself and then takes it out on others, becoming very hostile and unbearable. Instead of kicking the boy out and threatening to quit, could the scoutmaster have said "he is not allowed on any more trips unless a BSA trained, approved adult is with him. Here is the BSA training schedule. Who do you have in mind to do this?" Or "what do you want us to do when this happens? What can we do to help?" There are possibly as much as 5% of the population who has a soiling problem. There are also many kids with bedwetting problems. Going to put them all in special needs troops? Yes, the mother was offered other alternatives but the boy's friends are in THIS troop. Perhaps she also doesn't want to be scoutmaster and she wants him to be in a "regular" troop. My son's "regular" troop is full of kids who have their own personal problems. Many from divorced families, some have had immediate family members die, many ADHD, some with medical problems, some with behavioral problems, some who cry at night on campouts. Why didn't the scoutmaster tell the mom when he talked to her from camp that there was a problem? It also sounds like the scoutmaster made this decision by himself to remove this boy for the problem(s) at summer camp. I would hope most people would talk to a few other adults in the troop before making such a move. I am also upset about the way the mother and boy were told -- apparently at the beginning of a troop meeting.

Okay, Here is the first article http://www.sentinelnews.com/sentinelnews/myarticles.asp?H=1&S=507&P=391940&PubID=7341 A few bits of the article: Randy Ordway, a friend of the family who had been Jerry's scoutmaster in Cub Scouts, came to the meeting after Hanley had left and was told by Green that Jerry was too much to handle and that scoutmasters could not spend all of their time with one boy. Green said if Jerry were allowed in the troop, he would quit as scoutmaster, Ordway said. Hanley said the situation was Jerry's soiling himself four times at camp and getting into a fight with another Scout who was teasing him. She said that because of Jerry's autism he is afraid to go into places that are different or unfamiliar. "I think the latrines just smelled really bad and he didn't want to go in and nobody told him he should use them," she said. "If they had told him to go on in there he would have been fine." Hanley said the situation was Jerry's soiling himself four times at camp and getting into a fight with another Scout who was teasing him. She said that because of Jerry's autism he is afraid to go into places that are different or unfamiliar. "I think the latrines just smelled really bad and he didn't want to go in and nobody told him he should use them," she said. "If they had told him to go on in there he would have been fine." Troop 164 Assistant Scoutmaster Jack Shea said he hopes Green changes his mind about admitting Jerry to the troop. "I've worked with Jerry for six years and he is very functional. As long as Robin is willing to provide supervision, he should be able to be a member," Shea said.

According to what I read, the scoutmaster was frustrated with the boy soiling himself several times during the week because he either didn't know about the latrines or was uncomfortable using them. The scoutmaster says that the mother did not inform the leaders of her son's "likely abnormal behaviors". The article I read a week or so ago said that the mother offered to go to summer camp with them and the boy's cubmaster offered to go because he has worked with the boy a lot. Have there been other problems? Is this being used as an excuse? The mother was told to go to the community troop for special needs kids even though he is mostly mainstream classes at school. Did the scoutmaster try "hey mom, you have to go with him from now on"? Can a scoutmaster say "we do not accept special needs kids"? What would you do as an adult leader?

I am putting this post under Issue & Politics because I'm afraid some people will start a serious discussion about this. The main reason for my post is I would like to contact the mother of this child to offer my support (if nothing but a shoulder to lean on). The article is here http://enquirer.com/editions/2002/09/05/loc_scouts_ouster_has.html Is this the same article I read about a couple of weeks ago under the Scouter Headlines? Or are there 2 cases? I thought the first one was in North Carolina or South Carolina. I may be wrong about that. My son is not autistic but sometimes I wonder if he may be. My child has not been discriminated against, but suffers some of the same problem. If Ms. Hanley is reading this, please contact me via the option to the right on the scouter forum.

Our pack paid for badges and awards from the pack budget. That was funded by the popcorn sales. They also bought the necessary books for the leaders. The pack bought the main course and paid for the entertainment at the Blue & Gold. The side dishes were furnished by the families of each den. Each den collected dues to cover craft supplies and snacks. Or you can rotate who brings snacks. Or just not have snacks (yes, the children will survive). Special trips by a den are covered by the parents. If a parents said they didn't have the money, then the pack would pay for it.

Look at Baloo's Bugle on USSP to find some slide ideas. One I made that was fun was from a limb about 1-inch in diameter. Slice of pieces of the limb. Then glue nature things on the circle, like acorns, pebbles, etc. You could also draw on them if you want. On the back I glued a small piece of leather string in a circle. You can also use a pipe cleaner on the back for the circle to put the neckerchief through. Also, lots of things you can do with the empty film canisters. Such as a slide that is also a small first aid kit -- bandaid, antiseptic wipe, quarter and emergency numbers. Paint a red cross on the front.

I saw a troop last year do a compass course with an interesting twist. The boys were sharing compasses, the adult that laid out the course took one of the boys aside and said "when you get to the third point on the instructions, go in the opposite direction and see who follows you". About 1/2 the boys followed him, never questioning his decision, even though the sun was bright and it was obvious which way was east, west, north and south.

Rooster, You have some good points. I think we do need to think about the different hypothetical situations. In MAII's first posting, it is noted that the older scout is about 1 or 2 years older than the new scout. So, sounds like 11 years old and 13 years old. I think the older scout crossed way over the line of bullying. Would it have been different if he had said "I'm going to kick your ****, you little ******......"? I think either situation requires some serious discipline (suspension) not just "don't do that again". Sounds like he knew he could get away with it. In a later post we are told that he has a history of being a bully. With that information, there is even more reason for him to have been removed from camp immediately. He KNEW what he was doing was inapproriate. My son this summer learned a new phrase that he had no idea what it meant. It is a very impolite way to say "go jump" but sounds very innocent if you don't know what other meanings the words have. When he first said it to me, I lost my breath. Once I recovered I explained quickly that he is to NEVER say that. He was completely clueless. He didn't say "oh, I was just messing with your mind." There is a big area between the two. Every situation will be at a different point on that range.

Koreascouter, I also wonder how they diagnosis ODD. Part of growing up is to be oppositional. That is how you gain independence and learn certain life lessons. The school officials have commented that my son has "oppositional tendencies". Yes? In some ways that can be a good thing. As his kindergarden teacher told me "You don't have to worry about someone talking him into doing something he doesn't want to do." This "tendency" can come in handy when someone approaches him about drugs. It means he doesn't blindly follow the teachers.

ODD Oppositional Defiant Disorder ODD is a psychiatric disorder that is characterized by two different sets of problems. These are aggressiveness and a tendency to purposefully bother and irritate others. A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least six months during which four or more of the following are present: 1. Often loses temper 2. often argues with adults 3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules 4. often deliberately annoys people 5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior 6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others 7. is often angry and resentful 8. is often spiteful and vindictive My son's friend has ODD and is also Obsessive/Compulsive at times. Most of his is related to environment --- dad left mom to marry a friend of the family, mom is still angry 5 years late and constantly talks bad about dad and stepmom, older siblings are allowed to punish (including hitting) young boy, family members are always looking for who to blame. This kid was at my house one day and accidently spilled something on the kitchen floor. He immediately starts apologizing about "I messed up your floor" and was heading toward an excuse. I just calmly said "accidents happen, let's clean it up." If things don't go his way, he starts looking for whose "fault" it is. Of course it is never his fault. He also starts in with the "it's not fair" routine a lot. It's funny to see my son roll his eyes when this boy starts with the "it's not fair" because my son knows I have no tolerance for that. I also don't look for blame when something is wrong, let's fix it and then figure out what to do different next time. The boy's mother blames the teacher if grades are bad. The ex-husband if the kids have any behavior problems. The ex-husband for her money problems, even though she makes more than the ex and she is not living in poverty. If she decides she can't afford something for the kids she tells them that their dad should pay her back (not child support, just other expenses). Sorry, I digress. My son is ADHD, the medicine does make a world of difference. Yet I agree that many diagnosis are too quick these days, the same with other problems. I know have the school trying to tell me my son is Maniac-depressive. I have a niece who is Maniac-depressive, so I know some about it. He is not that! Also, it's been discussed with counselors/doctors in the past. The symptoms aren't there. Go with your gut instinct as a parent, being very honest with yourself.

In the past, our troop did a wilderness survival night. When the campsite was reached, with the fully packed trailer, the boys were told "the trailer has been destroyed and we can't go home until tomorrow". They knew in advance but not all were as ready as they thought, from what I gather. The trailer was only opened up for a true emergency (somebody's coat was in it). There were trash bags and a few other things around for the boys to use. The each had a metal cup to cook in and eat out of. There were given the ice chests with food.

Brain Lock! So that's what you call it! The last week of school in the spring, my son had this. He was upset over not getting his yearbook that we both were sure he paid for. While everyone else was looking at theirs he removed himself from the situation. Took paper and crayons, find a quiet place. That place happened to be a bathroom stall. The teacher & Asst. Principal freak out. They want him out of there. He refuses. They threaten him with suspension (3 days of school left, ha!). They turn off the lights! They tell him the bus has left (he said he would walk home, only 1 mile). The AP ends up climbing over the stall and getting him out. Now, this must have been a sight! Then they were not happy with me because I never mentioned punishing him. Punish him for what? Okay, he should have came out when they said to. But he did have the right idea to go find a quiet place to draw and color until he calmed down. The more they fumed and threatened, the more he dug in. Then to top it off, the AP sends me an email saying that my son's behavior was "unexceptable". This man is the AP and makes up a new word like this. Also, I guess his email doesn't have spell check! It is hard to sit and wait for them to calm down, but sometimes that is what they need. Copy 12 paragraphs!!! Oh my! My son has a great science teacher, maybe 3 homework questions a night and a few pages to read, but they are covering a lot of material. Also, they are starting to do an experiment every week! Hands on! Way to go!

My son is on medicine for ADHD. You can notice a difference within two days!!! Some school administrators amaze me. Some are good and do a great job, I think they get burnt out quickly and leave. Anyone with an ADD child can pretty quickly point out other ADD children. My son's doctor has an ADHD child of his own, so he knew within 10 minutes what was wrong with my child. In our case we had to convince the school that was the problem. No matter what, you are the parent and can choose what is right for YOUR child. Slap down those parent's rights documents in front of them and tell them they are there to provide the best possible education for each and every child. Oh, I hate that desk cluster mess, line those desks up! My son has also moved his desk away from the others, luckily the teachers understood. The elementary schools around here have a chair and a table type desk, with the kid's stuff in the open area under the desk top. They show my first grader a stack of brand new colorfully books and then say "put them away". THEN wonder why he keeps his hands in his desk! It amazes me when other adults think they know your child better than you and think you have never read anything about child behavior, nor can you understand any of it.

My son brought him his 3 week school progress report. He just started middle school, 6th grade. The school officials were convinced he would not make it in regular classrooms even though academically he does fine. There were very concerned about his ability to emotionally handle changing classes and the responsibilities of middle school. Last spring I was beginning to agree with them. Then I saw the change after a week of BSA camp and a week of 4-H camp. So a few weeks ago I spent 1/2 day arguing with the school officials, whom I have NEVER argued with, that he should NOT be in a "self contained" classroom all day. This was a class with 3 students and 2 teachers, no changing classes, no lockers, teachers walking them to their elective classes and lunch, etc. Other people who know my son said "don't let them do that to him." I kept saying to the school officials that day "he is different than he was 3 months ago. he went to summer camp. He doesn't have the social problems he had 3 months ago. I have pictures of him doing homework by lantern light! He changed classes on his own at summer camp and had to walk 1/2 mile between them, not just across the hall." They basically blew me off "oh that's camp, THIS is School!" They finally agreed to only having him in special ed for 2 hours a day (language arts, a tough one for him). Well, well, let's look at that progress report. Four A's and 1 B in his 5 academic subjects. Yep, that's right. The B and 2 of the A's in the "regular" classes they didn't want him in. Also, there have been NO emotional outbursts at school. We've had our moments at home about homework but that is improving. He wrote a wonderful report about a book in Language Arts. He is telling me he is "bored" in class. I talked to one of the special ed people yesterday before I saw this progress report, told her he seemed to be doing great. Her response "well, middle school is easy. Remember he did a few years ago then had a bad year after that." Ggggrrrrrr He is also riding the bus morning and afternoon, actually enjoying it even though he is the smallest, youngest kid on there. I have to give the summer camps a lot of the credit. He knows he can meet other people, deal with what happens, etc. I've been told a few times in the last 2 months "I can do that, I went to summer camp." At summer camp nobody wants to hear you whine, you better eat what is served or go hungry, take care of yourself, and he was treated as having a BRAIN! He really did gain a lot in the self confidence department from both summer camps!! Just had to share.(This message has been edited by sctmom)

This is the statement that concerned me: "They told me it might open the door for someone who might want to wear a neo-Nazi emblem," Hayes said. Did the state really say that? Do they really think that?

My son is telling me that scouting is not fun. He doesn't want to camp, apparently because it is too much work now that he is in Boy Scouts. Even though he did most of the same work when camping with me before then and was happy to cook, set up the tent, etc. He's only been on one troop campout and summer camp (where they ate in the dining hall). Last night he and a couple of buddies in the neighborhood are out "having fun". To me, it looked very similiar to what could be happening in scouting. With rope they create a "train" of a bicycle, an old golf bag caddy, and his wagon. They were going around the neighborhood looking for items for a club house. They were getting limbs from my backyard. Searching for plywood and shelves. Got somebody to give them an old tire, a couple of old rims (those are going to be chairs), and an old metal toolbox. They took pieces of half rotten railroad timbers off somebody's hands (with permission). We had to force them when at dark and it being a school night. They were working hard dragging this stuff up and down a hill on their homemade trailer/train. The worked at this for about 3 hours. BUT it was FUN! Unfortunately his neighborhood friends aren't old enough for Boy Scouts yet, but just a few more months. Hmmm, maybe I need to go get the information in their parents hands now. Now, I have to subtly convince him that what he was doing can be even MORE fun if he learns more about pioneering, knot tying, etc. Any ideas? Have you also seen this happen with kids?

ASHEBORO, North Carolina (AP) -- A prison guard says he was fired after he had United States and North Carolina flags sewn onto his uniform shirt and refused to remove them. Bobby Hayes was fired last month as a corrections officer at the Randolph Correctional Center in Asheboro. He had been told to remove the patches from his state-issued uniform or turn it in. "I'm a good officer -- or I was," said Hayes, who worked for the state Department of Correction for two years. "Sometimes there are orders that should not be given -- and that's one of them." Hayes said he was told he was being fired for insubordination. "They told me it might open the door for someone who might want to wear a neo-Nazi emblem," Hayes said. Randolph Correctional Center Superintendent Clinton Holt declined to comment on Hayes' description of events, saying it was a personnel issue. Holt did say the corrections department has a month-old appearance and grooming policy that dictates everything from jewelry to shoe colors -- "leaving little ... to individual expression," the policy states. "If you let each individual express their own preferences on their uniform it's no telling what you'll have," Holt said. "'Uniform' means everything is the same. We're representing the state and someone has made the decision that this is how we'll look." The flag isn't being slighted, correction officials said. "This is not a matter of patriotism (as much) as it is a matter taken to maintain good order and discipline," correction department spokesman Keith Acree said. "If he wanted to make a suggestion he should have gone through the chain of command and not just slap a patch on there." Hayes said he has appealed the firing. ------------------------- If you go to the CNN page you can vote on was he being insubordinate or patriotic. Once you vote you can see the voting results so far. http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/28/flag.uniform.ap/index.html

A few years ago at Cub Scout roundup, one scout was telling a new boy why it was great to be in scouting and go camping. "Camping is great. You don't EVEN have to take a bath."

You are right Yaworski I went to a VERY small school. The town had about 3000 people total. The school I went to had one class for each grade, that's 20 to 25 kids per grade. Yep, the girls were mean. Not physically. I remember seeing boys being punched in the stomach because they existed on the earth, boys being held upside by their feet in the hallway. The girls that I went to school with? Most of them are married to the males I mentioned earlier, and running around with the high school jocks they didn't marry. Maybe they are all happy, I wish them the best. But they last time I saw them, they were still acting like immature 15 year old bullies, no matter how long they live that is what they will be.

I can see Laurel now starting to kindergarden and : Telling the teacher "Daddy had 40 sons, but they don't live with us." Wondering why the classes aren't broken down into smaller patrols. Wondering why all the adults think they are in charge, and looking for the SPL to find out. During recess teaching knot tying and compass reading on the playground. Saying the Scout Oath and Scout Law after the Pledge of Allegience. Making sure her backpack has a first aid kit, compass, duct tape, rope and TP in it before getting on the bus because we must BE PREPARED!

Welcome aboard James. I remember those boys that Yaworski is talking about. The ones who acted like that, punched the fat kid in the stomach just because, made "teasing" comments about boy's physical features and girl's physical features. I remember them very well from my small town. Let's see, at least one has served a bit of jail time. The only reason they own a house (or trailer) is because Daddy gave it to them. They work at some crappy job they hate until they die. A big exciting night is a 6 pack of Miller. They have no choices in their lives at 40 years old because of the choices they made at 15. They can't turn their back on their "friends" because of fear of being robbed. Their "friends" are more likely to shoot them or stab them then a stranger is. That cool car they had in high school is starting to be a pain now that it is 20 years old and the kids can't fit in the back. Their teenagers are having kids and dropping out of school. They blame all of it on someone else -- the government, the schools, big business, etc. Yep, that's the life! Now look at the ones who had an adult show them there is a different way of life. The ones who were taught that bullying is unacceptable. That honesty and courtesy do pay off. Even if they aren't rich with money, they have friends they can trust. They believe in themselves even when the going gets tough. They take responsibility for their actions. They know they do have choices in life and know how to make a decision. They like being adults. They don't expect people to back down when they puff out their chest. They are respected at work and in the neighborhood. :::stepping down off the soapbox::::

Answer to #1 and #2: Bob makes us think. We know Bob has the facts to back up what he says.

Recently I thought about a few things from my teenage years (the late 70's) that were traditions and how appalled I would be if my child did those things today. Each year the Beta Club went to the big city about 100 miles away for the state convention. It was the ONLY thing we did all year as a club. The tradition was to get drunk and find someone to make out with. The teachers knew this. Sometimes we stayed in hotel rooms used by state congressman from our district. Those men drank a lot. The credenza in their rooms were full of liquor -- 20 to 30 bottles. I knew before my first trip to volunteer to stay in one of those rooms, take only one or two drinks from a bottle, and no one would know. I also remember thinking how much fun other groups seemed to be having as they had people running for office, they displayed their scrapbooks and did all the things you were supposed to do. Our chaperones knew we drank. They just didn't want any hurt, arrested or pregnant. None of those happened, only by the grace of God. I remember the 9th grader who was passed out drunk by 7:00 the first evening. He was a little guy and had drank most of a fifth of vodka by himself and had eaten nothing. Some of us girls cleaned up his puke and got him settled in a bed to sleep it off. He could have died! We could have also have had great fun by following the program. Traditions of skits are great. The boys think the "royal paper" skit is the funniest thing they ever saw. Gross is funny for boys. Those are good traditions. Belittling people and physically hurting people are not good traditions, those are bad habits.

You can pick up chickens on the WAY TO training at KFC, but only if you bring enough for everybody.