sctmom

I would be concerned about only 2 adults taking a group of boys camping for the weekend. What happens when one of the adults get sick or hurt? What if one of the scouts is hurt and needs to go to the hospital? You all pack up and go? If you have parents who are causing trouble on outings, you have a problem to deal with. Otherwise give them a chance, they may be very good helpers and leaders.

Love the old pictures! I would suggest a captions under the old and new pictures. Not with names of boys, but at least "what are these people doing". Might also want to consider not putting all pictures on one page, have it so you look at a few pictures and the click to go to the next page for more pictures on that subject. Colors and fonts look great. Makes it easy to read and follow.

I only have one child. Cub Scouting is a family adventure but still I saw cases of younger sisters stealing the show and getting more attention than the boys. I am the youngest of 3 children. My brother is 4 years old and my sister 5 years older than me. My parents never made a big to do over it but we all had our own "things" growing up. I knew I was not going to be treated the same as someone 5 years older than me, so don't ask! When my sister was in high school, my mother was one of the lunchroom ladies in our small school. My sister and some other girls helped in the lunchroom as a sort of home-ec class (it got them out of P.E.). I remember staying at home the night they had a Christmas party for those girls. It never dawned on me to go, even though my mother and sister were going. It wasn't about ME! I wasn't part of their group. Even though most of the time the 3 of us played together (we lived in the country) we knew when to go separate ways. I also remember the family in town who had 2 "late in life" girls very close in age. When one got birthday presents so did the other one. So they each got 2 birthdays each year. Not sure how they turned out as adults but it always seemed strange. I think the parents need to be responsible for siblings they bring along and use good common sense about which siblings they bring. Also, the parents need to know when to step in and pull the non-scouts away. I think if I had just HAD to go on a Boy Scout trip with another child, I would go out of my way to plan activities for that child (and any other tagalongs) away from the scouts. The one sibling I've seen on Boy Scout trips is a younger brother in a 100% scouting family. He is a new Webelos scout. He is expected to show Scout behavior but not allowed to do things like the axe yard and other "scout only" activities. He doesn't tag along with his brother and he doesn't up-stage him. He and his family seem to be the exception that we all wish was the rule.

I'm the one in the troop of push-ups. I have expressed to the Scoutmaster my dislike for them. A few parents took their kids to another troop because of it. Well, we think that is why -- they don't talk to me now. Don't know why they are mad at me. It's funny about the different ways of communicating. I spent one night at summer camp. As we were packing up, the rain started. Since the boys were pretty much done, most were in the tents to keep dry. The other mom there asked her husband to call for a particular boy. He called and called, no one heard him. I finally turned around and YELLED the boy's name. I got heard! I used that "mom means business" voice. LOL Again, I don't think most men mean anything by not including women. They just aren't used to moms wanting to go camping. As a Webelos leader I ran into plenty of the moms who said "eewww, we can't camp there is DIRT and BUGS out THERE! eeewwww". Yes there is, but a small price to pay for the magic of the outdoors with your children. Maybe what makes me different is I grew up in the country with a mother who camped, caught spiders for show-and-tell, examined every critter we caught, and let my brother grow earthworms in his bedroom trashcan! Also, I was grown before I found out that some men don't cook! My father taught my mother how to cook when they got married.

My son's troop lets parents camp. If siblings are brought along, they are the responsibility of the parents and should not be in the way. The only sibling I've seen brought along is a Webelos brother. He is part of the adult patrol for eating and sleeping. During scout free time he hangs out with the older boys, he is mature and can hold his own with the big guys. I would not drive 6 hours on a weekend if I can't stay to camp. For some of us going camping showed us how independent our children are. I only hear from my son if he wants money. The campout I did go on, I told him "Mom is not here". The experienced adults may need to watch the new parents and suggest things for them to do to keep them from hovering around the boys and wringing their hands. Let the parents know in advance what the camping routine is -- tarps up first, then tents, then free time, when is lights-out, when is breakfast, etc. Let them know what they should and should not be helping the boys with. A recent campout that I did not go on, one married couple went and spent the day doing something different than the troop. They enjoyed that and it worked out well.

Scoutperson, After reading your last post I say I do fully agree and support you. You understand there MAY BE situations where it is good for the child to call home, but only under supervision. The camp my son went to this summer said "only phone in camp is for emergencies". The adult with the cell phone had no signal. The adults also set a good example by not using their cell phones. I did hear that some adults snuck off up the mountain to get a signal -- but away from scouts! Even the most homesick scout can understand the term "emergency" -- means you are seriously injuried or sick. The troop had a couple that had a rough time of it, but made it through the week. The scoutmaster even got pictures of those boys laughing and having a good time. Hopefully that is what they will remember. I think you are right on track! Keep up the good work!

Unfortunately many women still think they can't learn about the outdoors and other "guy" stuff.

Sounds like some of the problems mentioned by ScoutPerson could have been avoided if the SM's had talked to the parents beforehand, giving them the advice we've seen on here about what the parents should and should not say if called from camp. Also, all phone calls should be cleared by the SM first. So the SM knows the scout is calling, can point out some fun things the boy can tell the parents about (keeps the parents calmer) and to follow up with the boy after the phone call. Parents should be able to say if they want they boy to call home or not. I know my son should not call him, it will make him worse. Others know their sons will benefit from a call home. The SM's should talk to the parents before that first summer camp and establish the rules and procedures.

I agree with DoubleEagle. You want to bring it, your responsbility. If it is interferring with scouting, then it away it goes. Never at meetings, you can live 1 1/2 hours without a video game. When the kids show you their video games, tell them about PONG. My son has a PS2 game that plays PONG when it is waiting for the real game to load. He wanted to know if we used to get bored playing with PONG! Hard for him to understand we could not imagine they things they play today! Most of the Scout camps I know of, you can use the phone. Maybe if you walk to the top of the hill/mountain. One of the adults at summer camp taught the radio merit badge at night and the boys got to talk to people from other countries. Also, the gameboy could just not compete with catching bugs and frogs, and manning the campsite gate!

Forgot something... I don't think the men are aware of leaving out the females on some conversations. I think they are used to females who don't want to camp or be directly involved. I know I've seen a lot of women who throw up their hands and say "I don't know anything about that outdoors stuff".

I have also been experiencing some difficulties. The troop is great, the men are very nice. There are also some men who just came from being Webelos Leaders. Seems they get in on more of the conversations about "what are we doing on the campout" and "we need more camping equipment" and "we need someone to work with the new scouts on Tenderfoot". I'm welcome to camp. I'm welcome to drive scouts to places. The biggest problem that I am personally having is dealing with the "male way" of leadership. Threats of push-ups and barking at people is leadership by intimidation (and I use the term leadership loosely). The older scouts use the same "leadership methods". I had a long talk with my son about this and he says it doesn't bother him, so I guess I should back off. I think that you can treat the scouts with respect and still maintain your authority.

My son's troop allows electronics to my amazement. On a long ride it may not be a bad idea. You hope the boys in your troop will not steal but can you really trust everyone else at camporees and summer camp? My son took 2 gameboys to summer camp. I think another boy played with them more than he did. I know some boys like to play them during "down time" like before bed. I could see where this might help a few of the homesick ones, otherwise they will just lay there and cry. Also, some wind down with a little music (hard to believe with some of the music but true). What really irks me is the pictures of the boys backpacking with headphones on!!!! When hiking you should be paying attention to your surroundings.

My son's troop allows electronics to my amazement. On a long ride it may not be a bad idea. You hope the boys in your troop will not steal but can you really trust everyone else at camporees and summer camp? My son took 2 gameboys to summer camp. I think another boy played with them more than he did. I know some boys like to play them during "down time" like before bed. I could see where this might help a few of the homesick ones, otherwise they will just lay there and cry. Also, some wind down with a little music (hard to believe with some of the music but true). What really irks me is the pictures of the boys backpacking with headphones on!!!! When hiking you should be paying attention to your surroundings.

I have been reading about the origins and current practices of the major world religions. It is interesting how some of them started with the rulers of the nations being worshipped. They were assumed to be gods or sent by gods. Those people did not separate duty to country and duty to god/gods. If the rulers changed and therefore the religion changed, most just went to worshipping the new religion. Early on this was an issue for Christians in Roman times because they would not worship the Roman empire. I think Rooster has summed things up pretty well. You could even substitue the word "Christian" with a few other religions, but not all. Some groups do not seem to put high value on family. They also are twisting their religions practices to promote their political causes (i.e. Taliban).

The adults that went to summer camp from our troop took many pictures with their digital cameras. Then the SM made CD's for each boy who went to camp. We got ours this week. There are LOTS of pictures on it. I think my all time favorite is the one of my son doing homework by the light of a lantern and being helped by one of our newest Eagle Scouts! Another favorite is the look of my son after finishing the 5 mile hike, he looks like he hiked 50 miles. Also, they took pictures of the inside of every tent. Not sure where my son and his tentmate slept when you look at the stuff on and under the cots, there is no room for them. Also, a nice shot of one of the many HUGE, DEADLY spiders that was in the tents during the week. And the great staged shot of one of the adults calling his wife on the cell phone begging her to come get him. hehehe

I would be willing to bet the local police would be more than happy to met with this group of homeschoolers and talk about problems with drugs. Might be a good idea for the whole troop, even those who have been through DARE. Our local police have dropped the DARE program and created their own. Officers are assigned to the schools and will do more than just the minimum. Our school's officer even went on the 5th grade overnight field trip. He helped chaperone and he built up trust in the kids.

Have you tried the BSA publication Ethics in Action? Do you have access to anyone who does corporate training? They usually have some good ideas about team building excercises that could also be used for the youth.

Article in the August issue of National Geographic about Summer Camps. Doesn't mention BSA but still it's Summer Camp! Here is a link to part of the article and some pictures: http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0208/feature8/index.html The camp they talked about has girls on one side of the lake and boys on the other. They get together for a dance. One of the 9 year old girls asks about the boys "Do they have fleas?". Another girl answers "I have two brothers, and I can tell you they do". "Do they bite?" "If they do, that's your problem." (said by counselor).

I just can't imagine attending family night mid-week and leaving without my son! As I said, he didn't get homesick until I was there a few hours. He started getting tired and realized he had not had any "one on one" time with me in some time. Being an only child, he is used to quiet time with either me or his grandparents. I knew before hand that once I showed up, I would not be able to leave without him. There would be no showing up for a couple of hours and then saying "see ya later". He would be hanging on to the bumper of the car! If they go to a camp with family night during the week, I'll just have to say "oops, can't make it". He did do fine the next week at 4-H camp even after getting hurt and talking to me on the phone. He had a great excuse/reason to come home and turned it down. There was TOO much fun going on.

As my son advances in scouting and takes on positions of responsibility, I will discuss with him the impact of doing this during the summer when he may not be there. Also, we will look at other arrangements so he can be in town. The SPL and ASPL of his troop have been gone most of the summer because they are working at summer camps. As someone else said, communication is key. These young men have appointed stand-ins for them to run the troop meetings. I'm sure this was discussed with the SM beforehand. Despite what you may think from my previous message, I am all for active attendance. I was also a Cub Scout leader and constantly amazed at what activities ranked above scouting. We always met on Monday night at 7:00 -- den meetings and pack meetings. Everyone knew this when they signed up. In our area when you sign up your little one for community sports you can tell them you can't practice on Monday nights and they will try to accomodate you (I know school sports are different). Again, the parents would have the boys miss meetings. They would "forget". For most of us, if we did not meet on Monday night we were lost! We were so used to being there every Monday night. My son's baseball coach said "well I'm sure he can miss scout meetings, my son did as a Cub Scout. They usually don't meet much in the spring." Ugh! We traded off between the too when baseball and scouts conflicted. I know other parents and boys who do the same. I stress to my son that just deciding "I don't feel like going because I want to watch TV" is NOT good. I stress to him that Scouting is a team. Not to mention you just may miss out on something fun if you don't go. I've been having better attendance than he has this summer...LOL. I've been showing up to make sure I got info about summer camp, fundraisers, etc. I just ask that people look at why a scout is having an attendance problem -- other obligations, too many things on their plate, parental problems, lack of interest, serious life issues, whatever. Then decide if you can help or not. Give the kid a chance.

Little dove, Wow, that sounds wonderful. Not only will you be in the public's view all weekend, the boys will be busy and sounds like LOTS OF FUN!

Troops can NOT set their own attendance standards for rank advancement. That is adding requirements which is strictly prohibited by National Policy. This issue has been hashed out here before. Where is Bob White when we need him? If a scout is not attending meetings and events the natural consequence is that he most likely will not be advancing.

Will boys play around at a yard sale? YES, YES, YES. And so do the adults! And everyone has a great time! It does take a lot of walking around and supervising by the adults. Sounds like you are dealing with a committee that forgets boys will be boys. They are still kids. It does take awhile to accumulate enough stuff for a yard sale if you are getting donations. Have you looked online at some the companies that sponsor fundraisers? Even if you don't buy their products, many have tips about how to choose a fundraiser. Rule #1 seems to be find out how much money you need to raise. Oh, oh, oh, just had a thought. How about the adults do a cookbook? Is that something that would sell in your neck of the woods?

This thing about 75% attendance at troop meetings has been gnawing away at me. When school is not in session, my son is at his grandparents house 100 miles away. The school year is about 75% of the calendar year. So if my son was in your troop he could have perfect attendance when he is in town and STILL not meet your criteria!! Not to mention days for being sick, tired, too much homework, sports, etc. I know I'm not the only one in this type of situation. He goes to his grandparents house for a few reasons -- 1) childcare (he can't stay by himself all day and is getting to old for daycares) 2) he and the grandparents want to see each other 3) he wants to see his friends in grandma's neighborhood. This is NOT just summertime I'm talking about. Our school system is going to a new calender where every 6 weeks the kids have AT LEAST 1 week out of school. So he can't just go to a troop in grandma's town for the summer and solve the problem. IMHO if you have a problem getting boys to attend troop functions and meetings, maybe you should look at the quality of the program. I don't think you should penalize boys who are involved in other activities such as sports, ROTC, Civil Air Patrol, whatever. my 2 cents worth

My son's friend would do this if he could get away with it. My son though enjoys being around other people and doing other things. They may be younger than the other Webelos or may just be immature for their age. Many troop do not allow adults and youth to tent together or cook together. My son's troop has an adult area. Adults only help the boys with cooking when there is a safety issue or asked a specific question. I think you need to talk to an adult leader about talking to the dad involved. Sometimes the parents have a hard time with the Cub Scout to Boy Scout transition. Maybe the patrols can work on some activities that require everyone in the patrol to work together...like blind folded tent setup. This might help draw them out of their shells.