scoutldr

scotteng, Not all councils require Local Tour Permits for council/district events.

From the G2SS: Always follow the steps for constructing monkey bridges outlined in the Pioneering merit badge pamphlet. Before beginning the project, inspect your rope, looking at both the inside fibers and inner strands. Know the size and strength of the type of rope you are using, and its safe working load. Monkey bridges should not be constructed higher than 5 feet above flat-surfaced ground nor longer than 40 feet. Initially, beginners should not span more than 25 feet. Know the effect the knots will have in reducing rope strength and the proper care that rope requires. Rope, especially rope carrying a load, should be checked each day before using. Rope carrying a load and left in place tends to become slack from fatigue and will break under stress. Tighten rope as necessary to maintain the integrity of the original construction. Exercise special care when members of the public are allowed to use these monkey bridges. Establish controls when monkey bridges are constructed outside the camp environment. Station Scouts at each end to control access to the bridge. Allow only one adult at a time on the bridge. Never allow unaccompanied children on the bridge. Shut down the bridge when any repairs are being made and do not reopen until the adult leader has approved the repairs. Any activity on rope swings, monkey bridges, slide-for-life, or similar devices that are located over water must comply with Safe Swim Defense.

Got it. It's about the money. The SE and event chairman will make the decision. If materials have been purchased or contracts let (ie, portapotties) refunds might not be realistic. In cases like this, I would think the event would be postponed, rather than cancelled outright. Of course, if there's another Katrina event, ... Just curious...how much money are we talking about? I just saw the latest projected path for Ike, and it looks like it's targeting the same area as Gustav...the TX/LA border. Of course a slight jog in the path now could mean a 500 mile difference when it makes landfall. I'm a little North of you, Eagle92.

Ditto. It's a personal decision. The uniforms I have will last as long as I need them.

I have lived on the Atlantic coast all my life and grew up with hurricanes. With today's modern forecasting, you can pretty much tell a week in advance if you're in the "cone of uncertainty." I just spent the day under Hanna, and until this morning, we thought it would pass directly over us. Instead, she went about 100 miles west of us and, while we got some wind gusts in the 40-50 mph range and a few waves of heavy downpours, it turned out to be "no big deal" as hurricanes go. We've had worse thunderstorms this summer. That's not to say I would have been camping this weekend. Hurricane Floyd went through a few years ago, and we had much the same thing here, but 80 miles away, our Council camp was devastated by a tornado and flash floods. Be Prepared and Safety First. If I were in charge of the event, I would be making my decision to reschedule now, if it looked like there will be inclement weather. Even if you don't get a direct hit, there can be dangerous weather hundreds of miles from the eye. Ike is forecast to re-emerge into the gulf as a Cat 3...nothing to mess with.

Found this on the internet, so I can't attest to the accuracy: An open letter to all adult scout volunteers and good citizens of the United States, Scouting is both a touchstone and stepping stone for scouters both young and old. It touches our lives in ways without measure that can only be appreciated and valued more as time goes on. Scouting has been a part of my life for over forty years here in Mansfield, Ohio my hometown. I have been a cub scout,boy scout, order of the arrow member, explorer scout and adult scout leader. I earned the rank of Eagle Scout and two Catholic scouting awards while a boy scout with Saint Peter's Troop 121 here in Mansfield. I also worked at Camp Avery Hand, our local scout camp, as a staff member and taught camping, cooking and pioneering merit badges. After college I returned to my hometown to start an Optometry practice and raise my two sons. As an adult scout leader I helped start a new cub scout pack at the Discovery School and served as their first cubmaster. Later I became scoutmaster of Saint Peter's Troop 121. I received the Bronze Pelican Award given to Catholic adult scouters for service to the scouting program. I retired from the Troop 121 committee this year after over 25 years. I had hoped to remain active with the Stewards of Camp Avery Hand program. A group of 150 volunteers who donate time and money to our beloved Camp Avery Hand. Or so I thought..... The reality of todays world cannot be denied, less young boys are joining scouting when it's principles and values are needed more now than ever. The Heart of Ohio Council of the Boy Scouts of America like many councils across America have been facing economic problems. We are blessed with two scout camps in our council which covers a nine county area in Central Ohio. Camp Avery Hand near Mansfield and the Firelands Camp near Wakeman Ohio. The executive board of of our council is considering closing Camp Avery Hand unless the local scouters and citizens of Mansfield and the Richland County area can raise over 3 million dollars for endowment funds for the Heart of Ohio Council. In 1991 as scoutmaster I was invited to a board meeting, that is right, you have to be invited, even as an active scoutmaster. At that point in time I expressed my concerns over the council's management of money and possible cuts in programs. I asked questions but got no answers. I was politely told the information was not available. Now in 2007 precious little has changed. There was a recent meeting held of over 50 adult scouters and community leaders here in Mansfield to discuss Camp Avery Hand. Two paid scout executives and one board member from the council was sent to answer questions. I asked only 3 questions. What does it cost to keep Camp Avery Hand open, lights on and buildings heated? No answer. How much does the council have in endowment funds? No answer. How much of the monies are invested in the stock market? No answer. The volunteer scouters deserve better than this. I surfed the Web and found the answers. Every non profit must file a Form 990 with the IRS. It is a non profits version of a 1040. Not only did I find a 990 for the Heart of Ohio Council, with assets listed at over 7 million dollars, but I also found a Heart of Ohio Council Trust at 600,000 dollars. Finally. A peek inside the finances of our council. After reviewing 4 consecutive years of 990 forms, several facts are already apparent. #1 There are 4 milliom dollars in a restricted endowment and 2 million in unrestricted endowment funds. #2 There are large amounts of money invested in the stock market. Millions of dollars at times. #3 There is a 100,000 dollar loan from a board member to the council with 7% interest . #4 200,000 dollars was withdrawn from the main account in 2004 and 200,000 dollars showed up the next year in the "other" trust fund. This in a year we barely broke even. Did we need to post a loss ? #5 The council has spent close to 1 million dollars on a lease for it's office in Ashland, Ohio. What do we have to show for this? ZERO TANGIBLE ASSETS. #6 Salaries are at 50% of the 2 million dollar budget. #7 ZERO of the 990 forms were filed on time. The Heart of Ohio head scout executive Barry Norris, and his executive board members want us to "trust" in their "business expertise" and hand over another 3 million dollars to their endowment funds. Yes, I do believe the council wants to sell camp Avery Hand for "FINANCIAL" reasons. They want a bigger stock portfolio. Endowment, endowment, endowment. Where is this coming from? Check the National Boy Scouts of America website. Read how local councils have been "encouraged" by the national council to create endowment funds for the "future" of scouting. It boasts of over 2.2 billion dollars being held by local councils, not the national council. How much property is a scout troop, or cub pack allowed to own by the national by-laws? ZERO. Is it now the goal of scouting to own the largest endowment fund or investment portfolio? I know. The "future of scouting". But what about todays scouts? What about todays programs? What about todays camps ? DON'T THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER. Go to National BSA website and type in "ombudsman" in the search engine. SORRY NO MATCHES FOR YOUR QUERY. The volunteer adult scouters have no ombudmans service available through the local or national BSA. Colleges and large corporations make this service available to students and employees to help settle disputes when they arise. We are left on our own to struggle with TOP HEAVY, OVERPAID, INEFFECTIVE council boards and executives that like to think they are business and investment experts. Their actions and balance sheets say otherwise. This is far more then just about Camp Avery Hand to me. I believe this is a NATIONAL PROBLEM. I call upon all adult scout leaders across the country to do three things. First, write your local, state and federal representatives and asked for change. We need an ombudsman service independent of local and national BSA control. Second, form a local review committee with an adult scout leader that is a CPA or MBA to independently audit your local councils books. Demand the books be open for independent inspection yearly. Insist they are done on time. Third, support the camps, troops, and packs. Buy equipment for your local troop or pack. Sponser a scout for summer camp. Join your local camps stewardship program or start one if it doesn't have one. We can no longer afford the ineffective corporate mindset with it's TOP DOWN programming or funding. Baden Powell, the founder of scouting, expressed his concerns about having "paid" scouters in the Boy Scout movements early years. History has proven him right. The giant Sequoia tree can stand tall and magestic for over two thousand years. It's true strength and life flow from the lowest level of all. It's roots. We , the volunteer scouters, are the roots. We are the strength and life giving source of the scouting movement. We have a voice that needs to be heard. Yours in scouting, Brian Kleshinski OD

"If they made a BIG blue uniform I'd advocate for us as adult volunteers working with Cub Scouts wearing it since we're working with Cubs and not Boy Scouts" Is the blue/yellow uniform still not an option for female Cub Scouters? The male Cub leaders have always worn the Boy Scout uniform, since originally, they were the ONLY ones eligible to be Cubmasters and Committee members. Females were "Den Mothers", and as the "direct contact" leaders, wore the same colors as the boys.

My boys used to ask, "what will you give me if I clean up my room?". I would answer what my Dad told me, "you get to stay off restriction for one more week, deal?"

What GW describes is correct and "by the book". Unfortunately, the reality is often different. Of course, if the COR were doing his/her job, 510Scouter would not be here asking this question.

"Do you think the SM at least has some right to know what's going on with the OA outings for the sake of youth protection?" I agree with the Bear on this one. OA is not a unit activity, it's an individual one. Scouts and Scouters are free to sign up and attend any OA function they want to ... or not. In some cases, our SM will arrange transportation if he is also attending, but if not, it's up to the Scout and his parents to make the arrangements.

The park website emphasizes that this is a "wilderness" area and that "insects can be harsh". I've camped near a salt marsh in the Summer before. Won't do it again. The mosquitoes can carry away your average Tiger cub. Maybe in the fall or spring? Keep in mind that if a young Cub (or his parent) has a miserable first camping experience, he may be lost to Scouting forever. The safety issue is a legitimate one. I would call the Park Ranger and verify emergency medical procedures. They probably have a plan in place.

This horse is dead. We can quit flogging it now.

My two sons weren't "required" to join, but they stayed in just to humor me. Older son made Star and younger made Life. Older one now manages an award winning fine dining restaurant, although he had no formal management training. While discussing various leadership styles and theories last night, I asked him where he learned it..."Scouts" was his immediate answer. While a freshman at Elon College, he called back and said, "Thanks dad...these kids can't do ANYTHING for themselves...they're all rich, but they can't even cook or do their own laundry!" I just smile. A "game with a purpose". It works.

My comment was tongue-in-cheek, I hope you know that. However, it wouldn't surprise me. I was elected in 1970, and things were as they were in the 80's. Elections at troop mtg, TAP-out at camporee, Ordeal in Spring or Fall (NEVER at summer camp). The reality is now that NONE of the troops in my council go to the same camp EVERY year. Most rotate among 3 or 4 (there are about 10 within a 5 hour radius), and most like the mountain climate better than our council climate (coastal humidity, ticks and mosquitoes). This is one of the reasons I resigned from the District Camping Chair job, after a particularly rude public dressing down by the SE for "not supporting YOUR camp". My goal was to get butts in cots, I didn't care what CSP they were wearing. I don't have a problem with the policy, as long as reasonable exceptions can be made (illness, transfers, etc). I'm sorry we didn't have a more favorable answer for erniepyle. I read his biography as a kid...one of my favorite books.

Once the COuncil registrar signs the Eagle application, that certifies that the records are complete and accurate. That is all I look at when I sit on an EBOR. Most scouts have their blue cards in a binder, but I don't waste time checking each one. Only reason for a blue card would be for proof if the Council didn't have a record of it. Believe it or not, some Council records have been found to be, shall we say, incomplete. In my opinion, of course.

I get it, emb. It's more like a punishment for not supporting your Council camp.

Sure does. Thanks. As always, BSA has a real hard time writing what they really mean. After all, the phrase "no exceptions" is pretty clear.

Ahh, Beavah, as always the voice of temperance and moderation. In our school district, athletes get excused absences. Cub Scouts do not. Of course, if your GPA drops, you will no longer be an athlete. I think it's important that we do not send the message that it's ok to ignore school rules, as long as we have fun doing it. I view an unexcused absence as having broken an attendance policy. Also, in our Council, all sites used for Cub camping have to be on the "Council approved" list. Not sure if that's a national rule or not, but might be worth looking into. Another check point would be at the tour permit approval stage.

Luckily, most of us do not live in NY. Another reason not to. What we do in our troop...immediately after the EBOR, we meet with the Eagle and his parents and explain that the "design" of the ECOH is up to them, while maintaining the dignity and respect that it's due. They can have whatever ceremony they want, ranging from "just mail me the medal" (that's happened), to a full-fledged COH with the mayor, Senator, all the relatives, letters from the POTUS, flag over the Capitol, etc. Then the troop PLC and Committee make it happen. We establish a budget and let the parents know how much the troop can contribute towards it. At no time do we imply it's NOT a troop function and the SM/SPL will not be running the show. This discussion has been valuable, in that in the future we will be conscious of the alcohol issue. If the parents want to invite everyone to their home afterwards for a pool/keg party, that's on them and the other parents. When the SPL adjourns the ceremony with a benediction and everyone gets up to leave, it's no longer a "Scouting function". Would I attend the party? Sure...in civilian clothes as a guest, not as a host.

"Out of council Ordeals are not permitted." No exceptions are given. That's going to adversely affect a lot of folks in my council. We are a military community and frequently, a scout will be called out and then dad (or mom) gets transferred. We have always told them they can complete their Ordeal in their new Council. Seems a bit unreasonable to me.

As far as I can tell, having just reviewed the current requirements, a scout who refuses to camp will not make it past "Scout". Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class all require camping. He will not be eligible for OA. I would not approve him to be an SPL or PL, since in order to lead, you have to show up. I guess he could fulfill the POR by being a perennial Librarian, Scribe, or Den Chief (but even Cub Scouts camp once in awhile). So, my question to him would be, "what's the point"? Perhaps his time would be better spent in the Chess Club at school. Edited part: Before I get jumped on with both feet, I realize that Scouting is not ONLY about advancement. Kids can have fun without badges, and I would welcome that, as long as he's not a detrimental influence. Just so he and his parents are clear up front.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Would be interesting to know the actual numbers. Council goals frequently do not reflect reality. My guess is, statistically, there was no change, or even a slight decline, as a lot of councils have experienced. I do know some Scouters in that council, and many still wear the REL CSP. Just as some scouters in our council refused to give up their red and white community strips when they were annexed into our council many many years ago.

I think Scouters are "community organizers". Birth certificates are public records and are hard to fake, why hasn't anyone produced one?

Not sure if this is a National rule, but in our Lodge, you must complete your Ordeal within one year of selection, or you start over (selection is null and void). That goes for both youth and adults. You can complete your Ordeal in a different Lodge, with permission of the Lodge Chiefs. You didn't say if you are a current BSA member, but #1 prerequisite is to be a registered member of a Scout unit, or District/Council level Scouter. Good Luck and welcome to the Forums!

Well, if the parents didn't go along with it, it wouldn't happen. Either start a revolution, or find another Pack. Those are your choices.