scoutldr

I refuse to be made to feel petty and uncaring because I expect the laws of the land to be obeyed and enforced.

The Lone Scout program published a magazine for awhile and across the masthead it read, "The Real Boys' Magazine". After awhile, it was changed to "The White Boys' Magazine" (circa 1930's). You still see them from time to time on Ebay.

At our camp, some MB also carry extra fees...shotgun, archery and basketry come to mind...maybe Indian Lore too, but that's about it. Everything else is included in the camp fees. Except for shotgun shells, all MB supplies are sold at the trading post and each scout is expected to purchase his own arrow and bowstring, which he then assembles in class and takes home with him. If scouts came home without the articles they purchased, I would have some irate parents calling the SE. I was in a similar situation, serving as the District Camping Chair when my own troop voted to go OOC after 15 years of "supporting" our home camp. I had mixed emotions, as it was my childhood camp that I had been attending since 1966. But the program and facilities had become "stale" and after 3-4 years, the boys wanted different scenery, and it turned out to be a good thing. The vast majority of troops in my council rotate summer camps...there are at least 10 to choose from within a 4-6 hr drive, and they come back to ours every 4th year or so. I finally resigned the District position when the SE came in to a meeting and read us the riot act and threatened to close the camp. I'm a volunteer, and don't take that crap from someone whose salary I help to pay. Bottom line...I wouldn't lose any more sleep over it...it's clear your camp is out of control and those who can stop it don't care. Your boys are only with you 3-4 years each...they deserve the best program you can provide them.

The Council Camping Promotion committee has the cog on this, not Advancement. Not attending your own council camp is common...but do you have out-of-council troops coming to your camp? Bottom line is "butts in cots"...and most camps charge a premium for OOC troops. I agree with the others...your bill of complaints is huge...keep it to one page and it will more likely be read. As I have learned over the past 30 some years...unit volunteers have no vote at District/Council Board meetings. Your CORs need to attend and voice their unit's complaints, because they are the only ones who have a vote. Boys and leaders can only vote with their feet...and checkbooks. PS: I thought MBC had to be 21.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Your signature on the form certifies that all requirements have been met (including tenure and Scout Spirit) and is a recommendation to the Troop Committee that the EBOR be scheduled. IF that is not true, then you should not sign, but have a SM conference with the Scout and let him know where he is falling short and agree to a plan to correct deficiencies.

Perhaps some other country will invade us and free us of the tyranny of socialism because it's not what THEY believe in and we're too stupid to do it ourselves.

I'll not be buying it.

What I would like to do is turn back the clock. After we turned the Iraqis out of Kuwait, our job was done. I don't really give a rat's patoot if Iraqi and Afghan women wear burqas or not. Let the UN fight for human rights. We are fighting against a culture 5,000 years old and we are not going to win by occupying their land. As someone said, there is no "government" to take over when we leave. Just lawless tribes. We don't even know who to shoot, for God's sake. We've spilled enough of our sons and daughters' blood. If we want to do "nation building", there are areas in New Orleans and Appalachia that could use a few billion dollars. What would I do...I would get Hillary and Gates in a room and have a frank, one-way conversation. "YOu have one year to get us out of there...make it happen."

"My hope is that each branch of government does its own job well - the President settin' strategy and the military determining tactics - and they don't start gettin' confused about who should do what." Sadly, it's too late for that. We need a quarterback, and got a cheerleader.

I never served on active duty, but have spent the last 24 years as a DOD civilian. To my Scouter brothers and sisters who did serve, Thank You for your service and sacrifices. And Thanks for coming home safely so I could be born, Dad! (USN Submarine Service 1942-1964)

Boy Scouts (Den Chiefs) do not need a parent along. As a Den Chief, he is part of the Den leadership and it should be assumed he will camp with the group. He can tent by himself (and would probably prefer it).

i vote to do both...the SM can show up and support it...or not.

The BSA is a corporation and LDS is a very large customer which has made Scouting it's Youth Program for ALL of its young men (whether they want to join or not). It is my understanding that all boys and young men are automatically registered as BSA members, and adult leaders are "ordered" to serve. This is one customer that will NOT be offended, regardless of what the rest of us think. Not being judgmental...just calling it as i sees it. It's just business. "Democracy" has nothing to do with it.

Thanks, David. This is going on my Christmas list...and I'm getting a bunch to give as gifts, as well. Still looking forward to an autographed copy of your book...

Regardless of what ACP&P says, that ain't the way it's done in all Councils. In the Council in which I serve, the ones "dumped on" are the unit committee, who conducts the EBOR with a District Rep present (I am one of those "District guys"). Council doesn't do squat. In fact, there are no "standard form letters"...each unit does whatever it wants. As the District guy, I would certainly NOT hold up an EBOR if there were no letters present. I WOULD ask the Unit CC if the references had been checked. Not sure what I would do if he said "no"...I guess punt it to the DAC for a ruling. In any event, I do not believe it's the Scout's responsibility to follow up on the references.

I've been in and around Scouting long enough (40+ years), that I remember when black kids had their own troops and their own schools ("separate but equal"), and lived through the "Massive Resistance" in Virginia when the Governor closed the schools rather than integrate them. I remember when women could only be Den Mothers, not "Committeemen" or Cubmasters or Webelos Den Leaders. I remember not so long ago when the first female Scoutmasters were allowed. I remember an OA workday when we had to modify the shower house to accomodate "male, female and youth". And I remember the first female "Arrowmen", whom we now call "Brother", and within a couple of years put on the Vigil sash. And I have men in my troop who still grouse about it. Neanderthals. Scouting can and does change...it's just a matter of time. It has to, or it will die.

We are all MADE in God's image...and morph from there.

Welcome to our little campfire, Mike. First of all, none of us are official spokespersons of the BSA, but between us, we have about a bazillion years of experience. Sounds like you are being offered some "urban myths" in your training. Whenever that happens, just politely ask the instructor for the reference document for that particular policy, so you can incorporate it into your troop training. That usually settles it. For health and safety issues, the "official policy" is the BSA Guide to Safe Scouting (aka, "G2SS"), which is now available online. The paragraphs in BOLD are mandatory. Sounds like your "Older scout hike" was right on target. I would have done the same thing. I assume this was an activity subset of a larger outing (troop campout) at which you DID have 2-deep...this meets the requirement. I have to ask...why is your Unit Commissioner camping with you? (It's not prohibited, just unusual). If he/she is camping with you, they sure as heck should not be interfering with your leadership.

Has anyone considered that perhaps God/Allah/Yeshua/Earth Mother/Buddha/Zoroaster/(insert higher power of your choice) sent Merlyn to us for a reason? I have.

The requirement for the Scout is to provide names. Period. If the Unit/District wants to request letters, that's up to them. But I do NOT think they can hold up an EBOR decision if the named individuals fail/refuse to submit them. That is not within the Scout's (or the Unit's) control, and is fodder for an Appeal.

I'm also stockpiling ammunition and purchasing guns. Not for any particular reason, other than the stated intentions of the current administration to tax and/or further restrict the purchase of those items. My sons and I enjoy target shooting as a sport. Heck, I'd be stockpiling gasoline, too, if I could. A Scout is Thrifty.

This is not a political issue...it's a Scout Law issue.

Yankee by birth...Southern by the Grace of God.

"Then a troop was created that's sole purpose was to go to Canada for a 50 Miler expediation." We have groups of scouts do this all the time...why would they need to form a troop? Sounds like just a DE trying to meet his numbers.

Hey Pack!...We could start our OWN group..."Loathsome Ilk of America" (LIA)...and sponsor our own youth programs. Wanna draw straws to see who will be the "Chief Loathsome Ilk"? Question: Who funded these programs before when they were LFL? Did the Posts sell Trails End popcorn to buy their uniforms and badges? If the city funded them, and they plan on continuing the program, what's the problem? Far as I can tell, nothing much will change, except they won't be paying fees to LFL National in Irving.