scoutldr

i vote to do both...the SM can show up and support it...or not.

The BSA is a corporation and LDS is a very large customer which has made Scouting it's Youth Program for ALL of its young men (whether they want to join or not). It is my understanding that all boys and young men are automatically registered as BSA members, and adult leaders are "ordered" to serve. This is one customer that will NOT be offended, regardless of what the rest of us think. Not being judgmental...just calling it as i sees it. It's just business. "Democracy" has nothing to do with it.

Thanks, David. This is going on my Christmas list...and I'm getting a bunch to give as gifts, as well. Still looking forward to an autographed copy of your book...

Regardless of what ACP&P says, that ain't the way it's done in all Councils. In the Council in which I serve, the ones "dumped on" are the unit committee, who conducts the EBOR with a District Rep present (I am one of those "District guys"). Council doesn't do squat. In fact, there are no "standard form letters"...each unit does whatever it wants. As the District guy, I would certainly NOT hold up an EBOR if there were no letters present. I WOULD ask the Unit CC if the references had been checked. Not sure what I would do if he said "no"...I guess punt it to the DAC for a ruling. In any event, I do not believe it's the Scout's responsibility to follow up on the references.

I've been in and around Scouting long enough (40+ years), that I remember when black kids had their own troops and their own schools ("separate but equal"), and lived through the "Massive Resistance" in Virginia when the Governor closed the schools rather than integrate them. I remember when women could only be Den Mothers, not "Committeemen" or Cubmasters or Webelos Den Leaders. I remember not so long ago when the first female Scoutmasters were allowed. I remember an OA workday when we had to modify the shower house to accomodate "male, female and youth". And I remember the first female "Arrowmen", whom we now call "Brother", and within a couple of years put on the Vigil sash. And I have men in my troop who still grouse about it. Neanderthals. Scouting can and does change...it's just a matter of time. It has to, or it will die.

We are all MADE in God's image...and morph from there.

Welcome to our little campfire, Mike. First of all, none of us are official spokespersons of the BSA, but between us, we have about a bazillion years of experience. Sounds like you are being offered some "urban myths" in your training. Whenever that happens, just politely ask the instructor for the reference document for that particular policy, so you can incorporate it into your troop training. That usually settles it. For health and safety issues, the "official policy" is the BSA Guide to Safe Scouting (aka, "G2SS"), which is now available online. The paragraphs in BOLD are mandatory. Sounds like your "Older scout hike" was right on target. I would have done the same thing. I assume this was an activity subset of a larger outing (troop campout) at which you DID have 2-deep...this meets the requirement. I have to ask...why is your Unit Commissioner camping with you? (It's not prohibited, just unusual). If he/she is camping with you, they sure as heck should not be interfering with your leadership.

Has anyone considered that perhaps God/Allah/Yeshua/Earth Mother/Buddha/Zoroaster/(insert higher power of your choice) sent Merlyn to us for a reason? I have.

The requirement for the Scout is to provide names. Period. If the Unit/District wants to request letters, that's up to them. But I do NOT think they can hold up an EBOR decision if the named individuals fail/refuse to submit them. That is not within the Scout's (or the Unit's) control, and is fodder for an Appeal.

I'm also stockpiling ammunition and purchasing guns. Not for any particular reason, other than the stated intentions of the current administration to tax and/or further restrict the purchase of those items. My sons and I enjoy target shooting as a sport. Heck, I'd be stockpiling gasoline, too, if I could. A Scout is Thrifty.

This is not a political issue...it's a Scout Law issue.

Yankee by birth...Southern by the Grace of God.

"Then a troop was created that's sole purpose was to go to Canada for a 50 Miler expediation." We have groups of scouts do this all the time...why would they need to form a troop? Sounds like just a DE trying to meet his numbers.

Hey Pack!...We could start our OWN group..."Loathsome Ilk of America" (LIA)...and sponsor our own youth programs. Wanna draw straws to see who will be the "Chief Loathsome Ilk"? Question: Who funded these programs before when they were LFL? Did the Posts sell Trails End popcorn to buy their uniforms and badges? If the city funded them, and they plan on continuing the program, what's the problem? Far as I can tell, nothing much will change, except they won't be paying fees to LFL National in Irving.

Be sure to take care of the caregivers. They not only have their own stresses, but take those of others upon their shoulders. Been there...still there.

So what if some instructors agree to come and some don't? Who fills in the gap? Is this the ONLY training opportunity for this individual? Can he/she get it in another Council/District? For things like this, that's the reason to have advance registration...so you can plan. I would canc the course...or agree to give the person the training one:one if possible....it would probably go a lot faster.

I noticed the guide is a bit dated...has the old uniforms in it...perhaps if you called Irving, they can provide the new colors... Second thought...if you have the color you're trying to match (pants?), try taking them to a print shop and see if they will let you borrow their Pantone color swatches (similar to paint chips)...then you can match it up as best as you can.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Sometimes we amaze me.

I think what you need to be asking is "what is the Pantone color shade number"...Pantone is the standard in the printing industry...e.g., if you tell the printer, "Pantone 345", you will get the same color, no matter who does the printing. That being said, I don't know what they are...maybe someone at BSA (Publications division?) can help you.

Without a signed charter agreement, the unit does not exist. Plain and simple.

Whew...I'm going home to see if there's any twinkies left. All this talk of food makes me hungry.

I agree...most of the "reporting" mentioned here should be done by the SPL. You should have his back. In a perfect world...

Yes, correct. Circa 1990. Had to have X hours of "cheerful service" and attend X number of events, as i recall. Couldn't find anything online, but I don't think they are particularly rare. The owner might appreciate getting it back, though. Probably worth 10-20 bucks on ebay.

If you were asked to leave, there must be more to the story, but we don't need to get into that...just realize that it's hard to give advice when we only hear one side of a story. Does anyone "own" the list? That's ludicrous. I wouldn't even respond to them. What are they going to do to you, report you? To whom? If your unit has a Council approved money earning application filed, then go for it. The choice of whom to buy "greens" from is the customer's...not the unit's. I'll take a large bowl...with vinegar, please.

"Think about your own worldview to decide if it is free of supernatural or mystical deities, forces, and entities. If you decide that you fit the description above, then you are, by definition, a bright!" Seems clear to me...no "higher power" there...