scoutldr

Do you get the feeling they don't WANT you knowing what the rules and regs say??? As the BSA is a non-profit organization chartered by Congress, I would think that the Freedom of Information Act should apply, if not by the letter of the law, then at least in spirit. Everything the BSA does, including publications, should be "in the sunshine" with free access to anyone who wants to see it. Posting on the internet would be a good first step. Reminds me one time I asked the Comptroller at work (govt agency) to see the Joint Travel Regulations...the reply was, "they are too complicated for you to understand...you ask me the question and I will research it and get you an answer." Now everything is on the internet, and I found that a LOT of what I was told was just plain untruthful.

Do we still have "Venture Patrols" within the troops? They wore the "Venture" strip above the "Boy Scouts of America" strip on the tan shirt.

The first thing I would do is go online and take the Fast Start training. That will give you some basic knowledge. Also, ascertain if they expect you to "do everything". In some troops, the SM is God and he rules the roost. The way it's supposed to work is the youth run the show, with guidance and support from the adult committee. The Committee Chairman is actually the "CEO" of the Troop, with other committee members in charge of such things as finance, advancement, transportation, program, training, etc. Needless to say, the CC and SM need to work closely together and establish common goals that you both can live with. The SM who tries to do it all will quickly burn out. If you have a good SPL who is trained and fairly senior, and a good Patrol Leaders' Council, your job should be easy. And if you run into problems, call your Unit Commissioner. That's his/her job!

We keep a percentage for the troop and for the rest we put each scout's "proceeds" into his "account" for his use (summer camp, camporee fees, etc). In actuality, the money stays in the troop account, but we track it on paper. If the scout leaves the troop, the money goes back to the troop treasury. If we need to have a fund raiser to build up the treasury, we do that separately. I was recently told about a related, but separate problem...a very large Pack decided several years ago to "opt out" of the popcorn campaign because instead of cutting checks to the units, the proceeds were in the form of a "Scout Shop Credit" in the unit account. And it took 6 months to get that. Meanwhile the Pack is suffering to buy the monthly awards. So now they do their own fundraising and control their own funds (and make considerably more money). Any similar problems in other areas?

As I see things, the bottom line is this: hundreds (if not thousands) of Scout units are chartered by churches...LDS, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. Some of these, notably LDS(Mormon) and the United Methodist Church have adopted Scouting as their de facto youth program, and church members are expected to participate. From what I have read elsewhere in this forum entire Councils are allowed to be ruled by these Church groups, to the exclusion of others. If the BSA changes it's stance on gays and atheists, the fallout would be catastrophic, and I'm afraid, insurmountable. So, we're stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place...do we do the right thing and end the discrimination, even though it means pain and suffering? Or do we cave in to the beliefs of a few deep-pocketed sponsors to ensure that the movement continues? Maybe BSA should put it to a vote...should be interesting. Unfortunately, the only ones who get a vote at the table are the CORs... I also believe the day is coming when BSA won't have a choice...the anti-discrimination laws are spreading. When I reserve a meeting room at the local school, I have to certify that the meeting will be open and non-discriminatory. Now, maybe I'll get a "ban" letter for not being truthful.

Unfortunately, pack, your information is already "out there"...anyone with a computer and internet access can learn anything they want about you. In VA, your SSN is on your driver's license and every time I write a check, the clerk demands to see it and writes it down. BSA is just paying a contractor to search the "public sources" for information because it's more cost effective for the large volume that they expect. If you want an eye-opening experience, type your full name into Google and see how many hits you get. For genealogists, it's a wonderful thing!

KS, Well, I guess that's one way to rationalize it. But if gambling is "wrong", it's wrong, whether it's "in the family" or not...no wonder our kids grow up confused. Personally, I see nothing wrong with it...what drives me crazy is BSA's inconsistency.

Haven't heard from OGE in a while...

I would have a frank discussion with the parent, since this seems to be a chronic problem...I agree with one post that recommends Dad stay home. Inform them that the Scout's responsibilities to his patrol end when you arrive back in the parking lot to be picked up and all of the gear is clean and put away...and if he "needs" to leave early, then perhaps he is too busy to participate and should take the whole weekend to practice his instrument. Also, to follow up someone else's idea, I would "coach" the PL that if "Johnny" is expected to leave early, then the "Duty Roster" needs to reflect that and make sure Johnny has a fair share to do before he leaves. ("You have breakfast cleanup on Sunday morning...if you can't do that, then you need to trade jobs with someone else."...and let the boys work out what they think is fair.)

These are all good ideas, but we are already doing something. I am in a military town...a battle group (of ships) returned home this morning, and while they were still several miles off shore, the CO of the USS KAUFFMAN was on the phone with the local news crew...his final words were "and thanks to all of the Coaches, Teachers and Neighbors who looked after our families the past 7 months." I'm sure he intended to include "Scout Leaders" in that, but I got a warm glow in my gut nonetheless. So on behalf of all of the military and civil service personnel who can't always be there, "Thanks for all you do when we are gone."

There's nothing that says a Unit cannot accept a donation. If that were the case, I would be many thousands of dollars richer right now. Formal fundraisers must comply with the Unit Money Earning Application and be approved by the Council. The Chartered Org can do whatever they want within their own policies and consciences. I guess this means that all the Packs who raffle off baked goods at every Pack meeting need to give the money back?

Our DE has said that MB counsellors MUST fill out a new application every year....so that's how they will get criminal checks done for them...the rest of us will follow soon...new app every year...new background check to make sure you've kept your nose clean. Screw up and you're out. Glad to see that's where my FOS money will be going...and all this time I thought it was for camp improvements. I'm not saying that the checks are a bad idea...but the best protection is for Chartered Orgs to properly select leaders from among people who are known and respected...and to follow YP rules scrupulously. In our case, the CO doesn't even know who we are...we just get a signature on our recharter every year, and the rest of the time they show no interest. ASM - your troop is bizarre...if it were me, I'd have the local news channel do an investigative report...those idiots deserve to be "outed" and the BSA embarrassed for allowing such shenanigans.

Say it ain't so!!!! Don't leave me here to represent Virginia by myself (as far as I know!)... I didn't necessarily agree with your politics, but you serve a vital purpose here and in Scouting. You cause us to think and examine our ideals, politics and mores. I think we are a lot alike...firing for effect to stimulate discussion and lively debate. Whenever I get discouraged and depressed or overwhelmed with "cheerful service", I stop and think about why I still do this after 40 years in the movement...it's because Scouting was and is such a key part in my development and upbringing. My Dad was in the military, so he didn't always have the time to devote...but someone else's dad was always there to fill in the gaps...and that's what we do today...take care of each others' kids and make sure there's a positive role model available. I need to give back to the program in honor of the Leaders who went before us ... ignore the politics and the religious zealots and provide a quality program for the boys in your unit. "If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds." They don't care about the same things that we seem to hold so important, like having a patch out of place, Supreme Court rulings, or what the leaders do in the privacy of their bedrooms. They want to hike, camp, learn how to tie knots and pitch a tent, fry an egg, and beat the big guys at British Bulldog. We can't cure world hunger or bring all of our gay brothers to our own version of eternal salvation...that's God's job and he will do it through Grace alone, not by our rantings, ravings, insults and prayers. There's only so much we can do, so let's focus on that and do our best to leave the world a little better than we found it.

Just a suggestion, KS...if the PL is going to take a "leave of absence", why not ask him to step down and appoint the APL to that position. It's not really fair for the PL to be getting credit for leadership that he's not providing, and for the APL to do all the work and not get credit for it. Also, I'm not sure what all the discussion is about patrol positions such as quartermaster and scribe, but they don't cut it. The only patrol position that gets "Leadership" status is the PL.

In the midst of our heated debate over gay rights, let's not forget our fallen brother. Any update or address yet? mike

As I stated elsewhere in the forums, "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." TJ, you can camp with me any time. I am as secure in my sexuality as you are in yours, and I don't think I would view you as a threat to "my boys". Maybe TJ is not a model of the first point of the Scout Law. As I also stated elsewhere...when do we go after the others who may not meet some anachronistic model... As Leaders, we have an obligation to prepare the youth to survive in TODAY's world and the world of the future, which may or may not coincide with "traditional" values. Years ago, the Cub Scout Promise was changed...the phrase "to be square" was no longer relevant and had an entirely different meaning to the boys...we all giggled every time we recited it. Society has said extra-marital sex in the White House is not a capital offense (no pun intended) and pre-marital sex and co-habitation are commonplace, although still considered a "sin". I know some of my senior scouts are having sex. One of them fathered a child and paid for the abortion. Should I have reported them to National so they could issue a "ban" letter for not being "morally straight" (whatever that means in 2003)??? What I did was to quietly offer my support and a non-judgemental adult to talk to. I, too am questioning how much longer I can continue supporting an organization that is moving more and more to the extreme right and is apparently being ruled by the fundamentalist zealots. To paraphrase my Pastor, "Scouting is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints." If TJ turns out to be a pedophile, I'll happily volunteer to help throw the switch...just as he would do for me, I suspect. And I can't wait for the criminal background checks to go after currently registered leaders...it will be astonishing to see who gets punished once again for past mistakes.

Don't want to get off-thread, but I have to mention that, at least in our neighborhood, I know some kids in public schools who are not "losers"...two of them were mine and two others who come to mind were my wife and I. I am an Eagle Scout, have a master's degree and a 6 figure income...and am proud to be a public school product.

Agree with your sentiments, Eisely. But the fact remains that the only things authorized for the MB sash are merit badges, period. If the patch is too large to be worn on the right pocket, it needs to go somewhere else, like a blanket, non-uniform jacket, pack, etc...but not on the uniform.

Try the following for starters: http://www.councilfire.com/ntvfoods.htm

Second the motion for eBay. I am buying all of my uniforms there now...I especially like the shirt I got which was advertised as "Boy Scout Den Leader Uniform Shirt...only worn once!" 100% cotton and brand new!

As soon as we get an address, suggest everyone send a card and a patch...perhaps a CSP from your local area? I understand that security may prohibit releasing his home address, but can we send it in c/o the Council? In the meantime, the prayer chain is growing ... our thoughts and prayers are with you from Southeastern Virginia! Mike

I just cleaned out my closet and found my cheesy hat...the foam backing on the inside had disintegrated into powder and the hat is now a shapeless mass of cheap fabric in the landfill. Perhaps BSA is making uniforms which self-destruct after 10 years to kill the memorabilia market? I also re-discovered my uniform from the 60s...it's good as new and ready to wear...on a body much smaller! I appreciate those who are "down in the weeds" about patch placement, but having just attended a LLDC, we have a bigger challenge. The uniforming of the youth, supposedly our "cream of the crop", was atrocious. One particular example...a 17 year old Eagle Scout Vigil who looked like he was coming off a week-long bender. The day was 40 degrees with a stiff wind. ALL he was wearing was a wrinkled Venture shirt, a pair of blue jeans shorts, and flip-flops. (I assume he was wearing underwear, but I wouldn't swear to it. No OA sash, bare feet, no belt, scraggly beard, uncombed hair, etc. It was really embarrassing to this fellow Eagle and a 35 year Brotherhood member (me). And yes, his dad was also there...one of the movers and shakers in the Council. What really frosted me was that another adult had the gall to chew out one of MY young scouts (first class) for bringing his new CD player and listenting to tunes during the breaks. Yes, he had headphones on and ONLY had it out during breaks. It's no wonder younger scouts get fed up and disappear. This was his first Lodge function, having passed his ordeal in August. The message he received was "show up and get yelled at, but the older guys can do what they want".

In our council, all MB counsellors must be registered as such and fill out an adult application which is approved by the District Committee...but the fee is waived, as I recall. This was purportedly for youth protection and liability purposes. The district maintains a list of registered counsellors but the disturbing trend I am seeing is that units will create their own stable of counsellors who will work with their troop only. These are on the District list as registered counsellors, but annotated as "Troop XXX only". I have always heard that certain MB can be signed off by the Scoutmaster, e.g., Camping and Cooking, but I have been told that's a myth...unless the SM is also registered as a MB counsellor. I assume all of this is standardized policy nation-wide?

It's not clear from your post if the program to which you refer is the same as the "Exploring" program of the BSA. That program is for career exploration for male and female youths aged 14-21. The units are called "Posts" and usually specialize in a career field such as medicine, computers, fire and rescue, etc. If a Boy Scout joins an Explorer Post, he can continue to advance in ranks up to and including Eagle Scout. The girls may not participate in the advancement or merit badge programs.

I can't get any of the links to work, except for this forum.