scoutldr

Just some random thoughts: - Perhaps training should have an expiration date (like 5 years), a la CPR training. If you don't have a current card, you're not "TRAINED". Would apply to WB, SM specific, etc. This would ensure that the "old timers" stay current. Probably would not be a problem for Cubbers, since most don't stay in the program that long. BSA comes out with new training, new program changes, new uniforms on a periodic basis, and we all need to be updated with the new info. The downside is that BSA will have to bite the bullet and keep the training materials current, which they don't do very well now. - If the Boy Scouting program is supposed to be "boy-led", why are we focusing all those training hours on adults? Shouldn't it be reversed? How many councils and districts still do JLTC in an organized, well-prepared manner with the same attention, fervor and enthusiasm that they put into a Wood Badge course? What is the "mountain-top" training experience for the average youth (who does not happen to be Lodge Chief)? Heck, if we're good enough at it, we could even look into getting academic credit for it. - When I do training, one of the first things I tell them is "this is not your Father's BSA"...disarm the Eagles right off the bat (I am one), and let them know that we are all starting from the same point...learning the 2004 version of the BSA program. - The BSA program will theoretically work well if everyone does their jobs as they are trained. If there is a weak link, the program will be weak. One of the biggest "broken links" in the program is the Commissioner Corps. Units are allowed to run amuck because there aren't enough Unit Commissioners and most of the ones we have don't do anything except strut around with a coffee cup. Hence, when one does show up, they are looked at as "the spy from Council." If problems are found with the way the unit leaders are operating, do they send a report to the CO? After all, it's "their program" and they are the ones who signed the charter, not the unit leaders. THey need to know that "their" unit leader selection process needs improvement. - BSA charters the program to COs who agree to follow the BSA program. Who's out there training the COs and CORs so that they have a fighting chance of knowing what a "good" program is supposed to look like? How many CORs attend District Meetings and vote on District matters affecting "their" units, which is one of their primary responsibilities. Are we too quick to condemn "those stupid CORs who won't attend District meetings", or are we pointing the finger at those who are too anxious to get new units on the books without letting the COs know what is expected of them? How many CORs get a phone call saying "we missed you last night, is everything OK?", which is what we expect the youth leaders to do when a Scout doesn't show up?

The "VX" merit badge was Hiking. The V and X were roman numerals signifying 5 and 10 miles. There is a black shoe in the middle with an "XX" on it, signifying 20 miles. The rectangular patch with the harp is "Musician", which was used by some troops who had bands or drum and bugle corps...I've seen it worn on the right sleeve, left sleeve and there is a 1930s uniform shirt on eBay right now with one sewn on the right pocket. It is relatively rare. You are correct on the SM and SA badges. The ones with mylar borders signified "Trained" leaders. I don't know of a web site of historical insignia. Best bet is to get an Insignia Guide or other literature of that era.

I'm all for guidelines. But let's apply them equally across the board to all.

The BW Admiration Society thread.

I recently resigned as training chair after two years. My observations: -Most Scouters do not do Fast Start and have no idea it is available on line -Cub training is hard to present, and hard to keep people trained. The "specific" courses have huge overlaps of information and there is little "specific" that would justify 5 different sessions. -SM specific is excellent, but should be required for all Boy Scouters. The Troop Committee needs to know this stuff, too. -The most important people in the organization are the CORs and they get NO training. -Trainer Development Conference is a waste of a day. MOst come away very disappointed. -Pack Trainers are nonexistent. They should be doing the majority of Cub training. -The main deterrent from taking WB is the cost. Do we really need custom made T-shirts, hats, mugs and jackets for each course? It's training...not an exclusive country club. WHy did I resign? I was teaching solo every course that was sponsored by the district...when I did get "help" from people recruited by the DE, they were the "old timers" who liked to ramble about how they did it 25 years ago and didn't have a clue what was in the syllabus. Then the Executive Board decided that training should be "mandatory" and to meet the demand, any warm body in the Council Service Center was told to "go do training". Some of these new "trainers" (new DEs and even clerical staff) wouldn't know a cub scout if one bit him on the knee, but hey, just go read the syllabus to them and play the videos. How hard can it be? At least we get "TRAINED" strips on everyone and make Quality Council. Another observation...training is probably the ONLY opportunity we have to present and market the program, motivate leaders, and inspire them on to other positions. If it is done poorly, by inexperienced trainers, or with material that is irrelevant, redundant or condescending (ditto about the bridge thing), we fail and they won't be back. Fool me once... Put me in the camp that thinks a major training overhaul is needed, and soon! If for no other reason than to fix things to correspond to program changes over the past 5 years. It got embarrassing to be told by a new Tiger DL.."we don't do it that way any more"...

Recommend we change the name of this forum from "Open Discussion" to "Complimentary Discussion". It appears anything else will get censored or closed.

If there are "unit commissioners who don't do their jobs", then the District Commissioner is not doing his job. If the DC is not doing his job and there are "no District activities" then the District Chairman and District Committee are not doing their jobs. THe solution is to get your CORs to do their jobs, attend Dist Comm meetings and vote for change. THey are the only ones who can get the Council Executive Board off the dime. Your only recourse is to deliver the promise as best you can at the unit level. Not having an FOS presentation is not a decision that the unit leader can make...that's for the CO to decide, and they need to demand an accounting of the funds...if there is no unit support in the form of active UCs, district activities, no camp, etc, then where is the money going??? A council is not in the business of merely providing steady paychecks for the pros.

Another square knot...

Just like with the District awards, any member in good standing can nominate someone for the Vigil Honor. However, few do. Nominating someone requires that you know the person's "resume" and can adequately describe their contributions in writing. Many worthy people are never submitted to the selection committee, either because it's "too hard" or people simply don't know enough about a person's background to make a confidential nomination. The person nominated should not know you are nominating him/her until they are notified of selection.

You're "spot on", Unc, as Eammonn would say. The problem is that, for the majority of parents, their first contact with the Scouting program is school night, or whatever your local equivalent is. In my experience, parents are "bringing JOhnny to sign him up for scouts" and are expecting to just plug him in to an existing structure complete with experienced, trained leaders and a robust program. They don't expect, and are off=put to hear that, if there is to be a program, they have to learn it and deliver it. Big Surprise!!! The typical strategy in this area is to group the kids by grade level, and then someone from Council says, OK, I'll be back in 10 minutes, so decide who the Den Leader and Assistant will be. Oh, by the way, we also need a new Cubmaster, Blue and GOld chairman and Popcorn Kernel. All he gets is blank stares. Some of them are never heard from again. Some don't have a clue what a DL is or what the commitment is. Some know, and therefore remain silent. Only those few who are brave enough to raise their hand go on to New Leader Essentials where they actually learn what they should have been told before they made the uninformed decision. Perhaps if we actually herded all the new parents into a room and gave them Fast Start.>he said, thinking outside the box

My chiropractor has been anxiously awaiting the day his son could join cubs. I have been "grooming" him for two years. During my last visit, he was not too happy...."ya know, this job (tiger DL) is considerably more involved than the 'one hour a week' I was promised at School night. Why do they tell people that?" We need to STOP IT!! The "one hour a week" thing is a pretty sleazy way to get a signature on an application. I wonder what the statistics are on Scouters who quit after one year because they were lied to? It's OK to have a joke among ourselves, but when recruiting people, we need to be honest. One hour a week for a den meeting. Plus a pack meeting. Plus training. Plus roundtable. Plus pack committee meetings. Plus camping and other outings. Yes, it can all be fun, but it's a serious time commitment if done correctly.

See eBay item 3947448174 now being auctioned.

Not to hijack the thread...I think the best solution is Velcro, but you also have to switch unit numbers, not just the position patch. However....sounds to me like some DE is desperate to make Quality District by chartering new "units" on paper before the end of the year. Let's just put names in the slots then worry about recruiting real leaders next year. How common is this and is it ethical? You need a minimum number of scouts and leaders to charter a unit...seems to me that borrowing leaders from other units just so the computer will accept the paperwork is not really in the spirit of Scouting. Or maybe I'm inferring too much here.

A small, struggling UMC church. I rate them a 1 as far as doing what a CO is supposed to do, however that's fine with us since we get zero interference. They gave us a key to the portable classroom in the back, and if we're lucky, they don't schedule other groups to use it on Monday nights. We're not always lucky. We see the COR only when we need a signature. At our monthly district meetings, only one COR attends out of a district of almost 100 units.

On this side of the pond, we pound sand, not salt. Salt goes on our Freedom Fries...(i mean, "Chips"). Come to think of it, we put it on chips, too. But not on our crisps, which are made with apples.

I'm not a CPA,but... I think the term "donation" carries with it the connotation of "tax deductible charitable donation". Giving money to an individual so he can earn Eagle does not qualify because the individual is not a bona fide charity, regardless of how he spends the money. An individual Scout may, however, acccept a "grant" which is not tax deductible, and may even be considered taxable income to the individual.

While the points may have been factual, I for one, do not miss the bickering. I can't count the times that certain posters needed to be reminded of how many points of the Scout Law they were violating in their fervor of defending "the program". What an oxymoron! A Scout is Friendly, Courteous and Kind. I was sorta disappointed when FOG was suspended, although I understand that it was done for the right reasons. He had a lot to offer the forum, but it was wrong to misrepresent his identity by posting under multiple Usernames. A Scout is Trustworthy. I was once PM'd by someone who thought my response was disrespectful, and in hindsight, it was. Since then, when I post, I try to be helpful, without being sarcastic or critical (as in, "if you would bother to go to training, you wouldn't have to ask this question"). I try to address the issue, not the person. My feeling is that, as in Scouting, no one person's departure is going to be a show-stopper. There are plenty of smart people here who can pick up the slack, and perhaps even do it better. So what say we get back to Scouting!

What a Scouter wears on his uniform is a personal decision, as long as it is authorized. I too wear what I have earned. Last year I was awarded the District Award of Merit. I feel that, if someone took the time and trouble to fill out the form and nominate me, then secretly had my wife and two sons show up at the District Dinner for the ceremony, I have an obligation to wear it with pride and gratitude. As for the other knots, as a trainer, I feel that wearing my service stars and training knots tends to lend credibility to the training. I am someone who has, "been there, done that" and am passing on the benefit of my experience, not merely reading a prepared script, as some have suggested should be done. I wear four service stars, yellow, green, red and blue, signifying that I progressed through all phases of the program (pre-Venturing era), although it would be allowable to combine all the years into one blue star. Bottom line...do what makes you proud and happy and don't worry about what others may choose to do.

SWMBO was recently going through old pictures searching for photos for my son's scrapbook. She found an old polaroid of a pudgy 8 year old in a brand new cub scout uniform with beany cap and Bobcat pin, standing in front of the family's aluminum Christmas tree with color-wheel spotlight. That was the same year I got my new Sears Spaceliner bike which is still hanging in the garage. Circa December 1963. My sons are now 26 and 22 and made Star and Life, respectively. 41 years later, still a Scout (and still pudgy!).

It is BSA policy not to reveal the full names of youth members on unit web sites. I would think that rationale would extend to the sides of trailers, unless you limit it to those over 18. I like the idea of an Eagle symbol...that's more classy.

I would "shop" by contacting my District Commissioner (or District Executive if you don't have an active Commissioner Corps) and explain the situation and ask for suggested Packs that more fit the model you are seeking (the BSA model). This will do two things...it will get you a new Pack and will alert the District staff that there is a unit in trouble with unhappy members. What they choose to do with that info is up to them, but at least you did the right thing. Good Luck!

Your first clue would have been that you didn't get a membership card and Scouting magazine like everyone else did. Being new, you probably didn't realize you were being cheated. Every year at recharter time, the unit gets a new charter, and a stack of computer printed membership cards for every registered youth and adult. If you are registered in multiple positions, you should get more than one card. You should get a new one every year.

All leaders serve at the pleasure of the Chartering Organization. If you are serving a local troop while at college, the CO needs to know about it and officially approve your involvement...this is done via an Adult Leader Application, which the CC and COR must sign. As was said, since you are already registered with BSA, there will be no additional fee, but I believe that registering with the new troop is not optional, if you are to be a "regular".

Found this on another board, so I can't testify to it's accuracy, but thought it was interesting: INFORMATION PAPER: Army Relations with Boy Scout Organizations DAJA-SC 13 September 2004 SUBJECT: Army Relations with Boy Scout Organizations 1. PURPOSE. To provide information on official Army relations with, and support to the Boy Scouts. 2. FACTS. a. Prohibited Activities. (1) Fundraising and Membership Drives. No official endorsement or participation in Boy Scout fundraising or membership drives is allowed. (Joint Ethics Regulation (JER), DOD 5500.7-R, para. 3-210) (2) Endorsement or Sanction. Official endorsement or sanction may be neither stated nor implied, and Army officials may not give preferential treatment to the Boy Scouts. (JER, para. 3-209). However, as noted below, there are statutes authorizing specific support to overseas scouting, and to Jamborees. Commanders may support Boy Scout events (as opposed to fundraising) where there are legitimate community relations, morale and welfare, or other DOD interests. (3) Official Participation in Management. Army personnel may not participate in management of the Boy Scouts in their official capacities. However, they may be appointed as official liaisons when there is a continuing Army interest in discussion of matters of mutual interest. (JER, para. 3-201; 3-202) (4) Conflicts of Interest. Army personnel may not take official actions that affect the financial interests of the Boy Scouts if they are an officer, director, or employee of the organization. (18 U.S.C. 208) Even if Army personnel are not officers in the Boy Scouts, if they are "active participants" in scouting, they should refrain from taking official actions which affect the Boy Scouts interests in order to avoid the appearance of favoritism. (5 C.F.R. 2635.502) An "active participant" is someone, such as a Scoutmaster, who does not necessarily have input to organization policy, but has a visible and significant role with the Scouts. (5) Gratuitous Membership. Army personnel may not accept an office, directorship or similar leadership position in the Boy Scouts offered because of their official duty position. (JER, para. 3-201) DAJA-SC SUBJECT: Army Relations with Boy Scout Organizations b. National and International Jamborees. The Army may provide the following services to national and world Jamborees. Prior to these types of support being provided, the Boy Scouts must provide a bond to cover the items and the risk of loss or damage costs associated with transportation. (10 U.S.C. 2554) (1) Loan of cots, blankets, commissary equipment, flags, refrigerators, and other equipment; (2) Services and expendable medical supplies, as available, without reimbursement; (3) Transportation, as available, without expense to the U.S. Government, and which does not interfere with military operations. (4) In the case of a Jamboree held on a military installation, DoD may provide personnel and logistic support at the military installation, in addition to the areas of support listed in the three paragraphs above. (10 U.S.C. 2554(g)). c. Overseas Scouting. Subject to various levels of delegation and authorization, the Army may provide overseas scouting organizations transportation, office space, recreational space, warehousing, utilities, and communications without seeking reimbursement. (10 U.S.C. 2606). DOD Instruction 1015.9 should be consulted before deciding what support to provide for overseas scouting activities. Note that when overseas scouting activities are organized as a Non-Appropriate Fund Instrumentality, it is a government entity. d. Use of DOD Property. (1) On a limited basis, commanders may authorize the use of DOD equipment (and manpower to operate the equipment) in support of Boy Scout activities which are legitimate community relations events or provide genuine benefit to the morale and welfare of the military community. (JER, paragraph 3-211; see also, 10 U.S.C. 2012) Commanders must determine that: (a) there is no interference with unit readiness and mission accomplishment; (b) support serves a legitimate Army interest, such as community relations; (AR 360-1, The Army Public Affairs Program) DAJA-SC SUBJECT: Army Relations with Boy Scout Organizations © the event is of interest and benefit to the local civilian or military community as a whole; (d) the command is willing and able to provide support to other similar events and organizations (such as Girl Scouts); (e) no admission fee beyond reasonable cost is charged either for the whole event or for that part supported by DOD, or that the DOD support is incidental to the event. (2) Installation commanders may authorize use of space for Boy Scout meetings and storage of equipment. (3) Government equipment may be loaned or rented if there is no interference with mission accomplishment. However, the Boy Scouts may not use installation auditing, data processing, financial management, legal, or purchasing services. (Special Authorization and Procedures for Issues, Sales, and Loans, AR 725-1, Chap. 6) (4) Army personnel who volunteer to participate may be given uncharged leave (a "permissive TDY") to support Boy Scout events that otherwise meet the requirements of a community relations event. Leaves and Passes, AR 600-8-10, para. 5-32k.

My buddy, an SM and OA Chapter advisor recently did this, then someone told him his unit numerals had to come off when he wore the OA patch. Now he just doesn't wear a position patch. Sometimes we make things too hard.