scoutldr

Pack, are you really a Brit with a fake American accent?

It looks like the typical high school or college class ring...

I grew up watching Rob and Laura Petrie sleeping fully clothed in separate beds because the censors would not allow male and female (even married couples) to be seen under the same sheets. Now we have Two and a Half Men, where every other sentence contains a reference to the male member. The favorite shows of the women in my house are "That 70's Show" and "Desperate Housewives", which I find equally offensive. Although I've never watched it, I REALLY hate "Ugly Betty". My mother's name was Betty... We do all like "Dancing With the Stars" though. And I hate to admit we got stuck on American Idol (Soul Patrol!!!). My favorites on cable: Weather Channel, History Channel, Discover Channel, Mythbusters, Antiques Road Show, Lawrence Welk Show.

Unfortunately, I see this all too often. Young people today seem to have a hard time accepting responsibility, because they've never had to be responsible for anything before. Up until now, everything's been spoonfed to them, even in school. Unless there's some immediate reward for them, they can't see why they need to do something just because it's the right thing to do. The only thing you can do is get them into training, and fast. After that, it's up to them. They either perform, or step aside. I hope I'm over-generalizing, but I don't think so. (This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Good question, Bill. I don't see anything that would prohibit it, provided all the requirements are met. (There's a little more to it than just swimming a mile, which they seem to forget at summer camp.)

Here's my take on it, as an Arrowman since 1968. The OA is an approved program of the BSA. IMHO, neither the Troop Committee nor the PLC has the authority to say "we don't do OA." All you have to do is make the time available to the Election Team, and if there are scouts who aren't interested, they can decline to be considered. If there are those who want to become Arrowmen, you can't deny them the opportunity. To me, it's akin to saying "we don't do merit badges" or "we don't do religious awards." Accepting the call to become an Arrowman is an individual decision, not the troop committee's. One of the principles of OA is that an Arrowman's first obligation is to his unit, so if OA interferes with the troop program, you're not doing it right. If a scout is "all OA" and you never see him at troop functions, that should trigger a "Scout spirit" discussion at his next BOR.

Thanks, Beav for the perspective. You make a lot of sense (most of the time :-). I should add that I first met Mrs. Scoutldr in 8th grade Confirmation class, and I was smitten. 39 years later, I still get smote regularly. I should also say that my church, an ELCA congregation does not currently charter a unit, although they did until about a year ago. My unit, a Troop, is chartered to a UMC. Next time I'm sick, I'll scour the internet for the UMC doctrine on the issue. I think that it's just a matter of time before the ELCA and other denominations who are liberalizing their views on gay/lesbian relationships figure out that the BSA policy is anathema to their ministry, at least in this area. My mother's funeral was also officiated by a female Pastor. She was great!

Well put, OGE. I was wondering the same things from the start of this thread. BSA says "atheists and agnostics cannot be members." Scout says "I'm an agnostic". The way ahead is clear. The troop committee should meet with the scout and his family (with the COR present) and clearly explain the DRP and BSA membership requirements. Then I would give them until recharter time (presumably within the next couple of months?) to let you know their decision. This is their decision, not the committee's. While we as scouters may not necessarily agree with BSA policy, we have agreed to deliver the program as it is written.

Not exactly true, Michael. They can still join LFL or Exploring. I know they are "separate subsidiaries" of the BSA, but IMHO, that's just smoke and mirrors so BSA can keep their numbers up. If the BSA is so adamant that gays and atheists are not worth associating with, then the policy should apply across the board. Can't have it both ways.

OK, I've been home sick for 2 days, so I've spent a lot of time surfing the internet. As I've said, I'm Lutheran by birth, from a long line of Pennsylvania German Lutherans, and a Scouter with 32 years of service stars. I am an Eagle Scout and earned the Pro Deo et Patria religious award. I was baptized and confirmed in the Church, and was active in Luther League (youth group), and served on Church Council for two terms, and was a substitute organist. My life growing up consisted of Church and Scouting. Now I'm afraid I may have to choose. I will say up front that my own beliefs are more aligned with the church than with the BSA policy. My church's stand on gay/lesbians is that we are to accept them and minister to their needs, but they will not (yet) be ordained ministers. From the last churchwide assembly the following resolution was passed: Recommendation for Assembly Action Majority vote required WHEREAS, this church holds that marriage is a lifelong covenant of faithfulness between a man and a woman (Message on Sexuality: Some Common Convictions [1996], page 3); and WHEREAS, the Conference of Bishops in October 1993 stated, We, as the Conference of Bishops of the ELCA, recognize that there is basis neither in Scripture nor tradition for the establishment of an official ceremony by this church for the blessing of a homosexual relationship. We, therefore, do not approve such a ceremony as an official action of this churchs ministry. Nevertheless, we express trust in and will continue dialogue with those pastors and congregations who are in ministry with gay and lesbian persons, and affirm their desire to explore the best ways to provide pastoral care for all to whom they minister (CB93.10.25); therefore, be it RESOLVED, that the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America continue to respect the guidance of the 1993 statement of the Conference of Bishops; and be it further RESOLVED, that this church welcome gay and lesbian persons into its life (as stated in Churchwide Assembly resolutions from 1991, 1995, and 1999), and trust pastors and congregations to discern ways to provide faithful pastoral care to same-sex couples. An even bigger question is how do ELCA churches (and other denominations with similar stances) reconcile chartering BSA units if they are forced by the BSA to actively discriminate and deny gay/lesbian Scouts and Scouters. I'm afraid the BSA is painting themselves into a corner.

The 50 miler award application says, "Make suitable plans for the trip" and "Select a suitable trail or waterway" Based on that, walking in circles around your front yard doesn't qualify.

A lot depends on the unit's financial situation. In my unit, we make enough money to cover operating costs (badges, camp site deposits, etc), and that's it. Some Cub Packs make $20,000 from popcorn sales and they should be paying all training fees for their leaders. If the unit does pay, there should be some "payback" commitment from the leader, such as agreeing to serve two more years.

Congratulations, R. Being asked to become SM is indeed an honor. The keys to success are to remember that you can't do it all. Assemble a good cadre of assistants and let the Troop Committee do their jobs. Your job is primarily to train the Youth leaders to deliver the program by conducting JLT and constant mentoring. But you know all this!

Is too Is not Is too Is not Is too You've both stated your positions multiple times, now give it a rest or take it to the PM side.

Someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong, but Neckers are optional. Choice of neckwear and headwear is a troop decision. But once decided, all should wear the same thing.

I'm not surprised with the SCOTUS decision to let the lower court decision stand. In fact, I agree with the decision. No one said that standing up for what we believe in would be painless. Freedom isn't "free", as we are learning in Iraq.

If he's a "prospective member", then it's allowed.

Council still charged an "administrative fee" to cover things like photocopying and staff time even though I went to Kinko's and paid for it myself, and never asked the staff to do a thing.

Yes there is lots of pressure brought to bear. The Councils need to cover their overhead expenses (salaries, rents, camp maintenance, etc) and the two major income producers are FOS and popcorn. If a unit sells wreaths or candy bars, that doesn't count, unless they turn over a similar percentage of the profit to Council. It's as simple as that. If the DE doesn't meet his goals for FOS and popcorn, he hasn't funded his own salary for the coming year. That won't happen too many years in a row before he's gone.

I can't think of three that I couldn't do without.

It's fall camporee weekend here. Tonight it's expected to dip into the upper 40's ... the coldest Wx so far this fall. During lunch, a coworker and Cub leader stated, "Cubs can't go camping below 40 degrees". Anyone else heard of this "rule" and is there a reference? I've looked in the G2SS and didn't see it. (I know cubs can't go to camporees...that's not the question.)

As the old mantra goes, "if you want something done, give it to a busy person." IMHO, there are certain jobs in scouting that should be given "full time" attention (i.e., no multiple hats). They are Unit Leaders (SM, CM), Den leaders and Commissioners, for example. We have a policy in our district that Commissioners may not hold a unit position, because we don't want to dilute their unit service. There are plenty of other potential volunteers who need to be asked.

The fundraising aspect is not clear to me...but I believe BSA policy is that scouts and scout units may not fundraise for other organizations.

A few weeks ago at work, a lady came up to me (who I had not met yet), and handed me a plastic bag containing a tattered flag. One of those cheap cotton ones that you buy at K-mart and are faded out within a few weeks. She said, "someone told me you were with the Boy Scouts and would know what to to do with this." I said, "thank you very much. I'd be honored to have my Troop retire this flag properly." She could have just put it in the trash and bought another one. But she knew that was not right, and found a Scout to handle it for her. I am still humbled and honored. My troop will continue to do flag retirements as often as necessary.

This myth may stem from the day when the first 6 merit badges could be worn on the right sleeve of the long sleeved shirt (it may still be acceptable, but few wear long sleeves any more). After that, they were moved to a sash, so you never saw sashes with less than 6 MB. Sashes came in two widths, either 2 badges wide, or three. I never really understood the purpose of that, except the 2-wide might have looked better on a really small or skinny kid. They also were available in forest green for Explorer Scouts.