Scoutfish

COOL! So, thanks everybody who has replied so far. So maybe ...camp 6 times a year plus the two pack campouts? Of course, I wasn't meaning deep woods camping or a site that required an hour of driving, but actually - the property that our CO uses for soccer/ athletics...but point still taken. TwoCub: As I said, we have between 21 and 24 boys depending if all show up. The current DL ( or actually his wife) ( we won't go there!) wants to keep the boys all together forever nd ever and be a great big loving family (Psycho theme music here! LOL!)! Anyways, that DL will also be a Webelos DL next year and we have two other Asst ADLs( that make sense?) that will either step up as full time ADL's or may even become DL's. That would be the best scenario: 4 Webelos Den leaders for an average od 8 boys per den - not counting any new boys who may join up after roundup. I'd personally prefer about 8 boys to start with, but may actually end up with an even split of 12 ,depending on wether the other Asst ADL's step up.

Oh,Iam relaxed. You know, it's a shame that we can't hear the tone of each others voice in here. I'm just saying, I wouldn't stress out a name that the boys picked. But I agree about bodily functions.

ScoutNut: Do the numbers represent choices ot a total count of the meal? I might join your pack/troop! LOL!

Okay, I am planning ahead right now, and I think I might be going in the right direction, but want some feedback from the more experienced crowd. Last year, I was only a parent. This year, I am an ADL for a Bear Den. Next year I am going to be a Webelos den leader. Now, since I am an ADL for the Bears, it's apparent that I do not hang out with the Webelos very much. But you know, while you may not have an intimate relationship with all the other dens, you do get an idea of what is going on. My plans as a WDL next year include camping on average at least once a month. It may end up being none in January, and 4 times in may. Who knows - depends on the weather and the willingness of the boys( or their parents). Currently, our Bear Den has 21 to 24 boys in it depending on who shows up each meeting. The current DL ( and his wife) do not like the idea of splitting the boys up even though we have to split them into 3 groups whenever we do an activity. (This in one of many, many reasons I want to be a WDL next year) So as a Webelos den leader next year, I was thinking about 10 boys in my den. I want to do the whole patrol name/flag/yell/patch thing. Let them soak it up and enjoy it. Let it bring them together and become a strong group. WEll, my question is this: Since ( as far as I can tell) they don't really do this kind of thing...would I be doing more harm by "rocking the boat" than if I just followed what previous Webelos dens did? I mean - And I might be totally wrong - but I don't think our Webelos camp out except at the pack family campout. As I said, I want to do a monthly thing. Our CO has a big ole humongous feild behind the church. It is surrounded on 3 sides by woods, and the fourth side isn't clear cut, but not exactly the congo either. To get a feel of the size of this field: There are around 8 soccer fields of various age appropriate sizes. So- I wasn't planning on deep woods hiking every month, but thought of using this field for a while just to get these guys used to camping - but not in the same old pack family style they were used to. And honestly, I like this field because it is within reasonable distance to facilities, yet isn't right next to facilities.And in the event bad weather pops up, it wouldn't be a big deal to pack out if necessary. Start out in this fieled, work our way up as time goes by. Okay, total honesty time: Am I being too easy, too hard, rocking the boat or have I entertained illustrious ideals I probably won't reach? Am I overstepping my pack or too inexperienced to pull it off. As a side note, when I mentioned that I was not opposed to being a leader next year, the CM, ACM ,and COR all almost did backflips. Other DL's all gave me the "atta boy" pat on the back.(except the one) Should I take that as a sign of them being okay with my ideas or just as a "relief" for their workload? LOL! Oh yeah, one more thing: I just recently taken BALOO, have taken YPT, and a bunch of other BSA online classes. I am signed up for leader essentails and leader specific next month and I am going to take them as Webelos instead of my current Bear position. And I mysteriously got a flyer in the mail from my council for WB21 even though I did not request or ask for it.

eaglr77, Actually, that's you being human. We all get mad, irritated, and need to vent and blow off steam about what( or who) upsets us. It would be a problem if you kept it to yourself and physically acted on it! Besides, you didn't resort to actual name calling or directly insulting.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Merlyn irritates me...sometimes. He actively participates in the very activity that he accuses us of ( being close minded and discriminatory) . He asks you somethuing and twist your words around in a most juvinile way. But, He is also a human being and (as far as I know) an American Citizen who pays his taxes. He has the same rights as the rest of us even if it is annoying to me. While I may not agree with or share his views, beliefs or lack of... I wholely defend his right to have, live by and express them as I have the right to do so myself. And although it may not pertain to his exact set of beliefs, I am glad that not every individual does not think the exact same way, lest we never learned the world was not flat, that the sun did not revolve around the earth, and that epilepsy was not having a fit! Merlyn really isn't doing what alot of us should be doing: questioning things we think are not on the up and up. Granted, as was said above, we do not write or create policy, but just volunteer for the kids..therefore his questions are aimed at the wrong target, but are - for the most part..valid questions. Sigh... I can't believe I just said that! LOL!

EJ, Stone soup? My pack is much too poor and cannot afford to contribute food for that! LOL!

Let them use it. Who cares what anybody else thinks? I mean, we can over anylize it until the life is sucked out of these scouts. Bar-ets? Well, I suppose if somebody wanted to push the issue, adding "ets (ettes) to the end of "bar" implys feminism. Wow, if somebody really pushed it, it sounds like the leadership might confuse the boys in their sexuality if they allow that name to stay! Bar-ets is not implyied to mean or be confused with berets, but since they start wity the same letter and sound the same...it might as well mean the same thing right? There could be misconstrued ideas that BSA is trying to create a militry type organazation. Maybe a future militia. Why not right? I mean, there is rank, advancement, uniforms ( with uniform inspection too) and color guards too. Unless it was really an attempt to mock the military. Wow, now we are creating an anti military establishment. That's just un-American! It's against every military figure who ever stood up for and defended the Stars and Stipes and everything they stand for! Why not call it the RED Star Berets ( as in communism!) Yeah, I know, it sounds rediculous right? Well, it was supposed to. Here's something i have learned in life: You cannot be offended unless you truely want to be. Yeah, I said it! See, instead of anybody ever wanting to think: "Hey, it's not even the same word or spelling, and it's mesaning isn't close to being the same"...people would rather sit around and say that it's "could be" or "might be" taken in such and such way. THis was name made up by a bunch of youth who did not even concieve the idea of slandering or demeaning the Green Berets. Matter of fact, I bet that the idea never ever even came close to their minds. We gotta remember to think in a youth mindset, not our adult mindset. Instead or even entertaining the thought it was totally harmless or not even the same thing,...people would rather dwell on how to make it an offensive thing. Basically put, let them be the Green Barets. If anybody gets offended, educate them on the misunderstanding. Tell them what it really means. If they decide they still want to be offended...let them be...if it wasn't this incident, it would just be another....just the way they want it! Some people can not be happy unless they are offended!

Well, I'll tell you what my pack does. I won't say it's the best or worst idea...but that it's the only way I know so far. We start our family campout of Friday afternoons/ evenings. Usually starting around 4 or 5 pm. Pretty much, it's just a get there, find a spot and set up your tent/campsite thing. You are responsible for your meal. Saturday morning: WE start cooking bacon and panckes. If you plan on eating, you better ne at the mess tent at 8 am. Not too eraly, not too late (depending on your standards). Bacon isn't the cheapest thing to buy, but not the most expensive. Buying it in bulk helps keep the cost down ( Do you belong to a Sam's Club, Costco or other type of buying club?). Syrup is on the tables, and we have some of thosr single aerve cereals and pint milks donated by local restaurants. By the way, one den rank is assigned serving and clean up duties. For lunch, we bouight a bunch of cases of pre fab hamburger patties. The meat to soybean ratio is still being debated, but nobody dies or became anemic over a less than 5 star lunch. A different rank helped by preparing salsa and making salads. Another den had serving and cleanup duties. For supper.....well...being in the south has it's benefits. We cooked a couple 100 pound pigs all day long. Boiled potatoes and green beans and had brown and serve rolls. Cost per pound by the serving and the hog was cheaper than anything else. Besides, we decided that after a day of dragging around and doing all kinds of activities... noyt having to do anything but toss pig on your plate wasn't such a bad idea. Sunday, we have honey buns warmed up in a heating plate ( has the sterno burner under it with a pan of water) You gather again around 8am, drink coffee or hot chocolate. We have scouts reverance for about 5 minutes and then you break camp. The event is over and you are on your own again! Hey, it's a family pack campout. As long as you don't go broke, you could have the whole thing caterd if you want. Cost is figured at $15 per adult and $5 per scout. We basically break even after figuring the cost of renting the camp/retreat, food, and supplies, materials including pins and belt loops.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Plain cheesecake. Both the real thing and no bake which is actually a pudding, not a pie or cake! LOL! Speaking of those mis-named food items... shouldn't cookies be called "bakies" since they are indeed baked in an oven and not cooked. Wait, what if my favorite pie is a pizza pie? What bounderies did we just cross? Or shepard's pie.

In my opinion, it would make sense for National to define "Inactive" . In that event, if a scout did fall within the parameters set by National without any exceptions other wise, it could save you a long process. For example: Instead of saying must be reasonably ( by who's definition) active for a period of 6 months.....it could be changed to not participating or showing up at scout functions, activities or campouts in a 8 month consecutive period wwithout calling or communicating to SM/ CM about outside obligations. Obligations would be work, school stuff etc.

Well Beavah... I admit to arguing for the sake of agueing. There really wasn't much more going on in the other forums, so it was a time killer. I agree, I think Lisa had some grat thoughts to, though I might have worded them slightly different: In my experience, people will state others are arrogant AND ignorant just because they cannot get somebody to agree with them. It is beyond their comprehension that somebody might completely understand the idea or thought, but still not agree! Kinda a "If you do not agree with me, it's because you are stupid" arguement! They never look in the mirror first!

Well Beavah... I admit to arguing for the sake of agueing. There really wasn't much more going on in the other forums, so it was a time killer. I agree, I think Lisa had some grat thoughts to, though I might have worded them slightly different: In my experience, people will state others are arrogant AND ignorant just because they cannot get somebody to agree with them. It is beyond their comprehension that somebody might completely understand the idea or thought, but still not agree!

No, it's not stupid. As soon as National sets an exact distinctive definition to what curtails"active", then within 1week, you will have a hand full of scouts who in one way or another do not exactly fit those requirements. You will have a bunch of "Well, this particular situation isn't covererd " or a bunch of "but what if "this" happens?" For example:

When they charter a unit...WHO expects it? Did you say BSA? They EXPECT, not demand it? Did you say BSA? You mean the club made up of people who belive in God expects it? NO WAY!(dripping with sarcasm) But did the school expect or demand it? Broken links? Why not a poll of your neighbors too? And you contacted BSA , not the school. What did the school say? Or did you bother to ask? No, you contacted the group that gave you the answer you already knew which says and proves NOTHING about the school. Suppose I ask farmers if you have to be a farmer to join FFA or maybe I could ask a church if you have to be a xchristian to be on the FCA? Their answers are great, but their answers do not speak for the school! I could ask BSA if BSA should be allowed in school and guess what answer I'ds get? I could ask you the same thing, guess what answer I'd get? Then I really ought to ask the school if I want to know the schools policy on it. Again, Merlyn.. the only reason you can give for not having BSA units is because you are against BA and cannot agree that any groups has it's rights to have it's own beliefs followed to be in that group. Just like AA does not want God beleiving folks in its groups. The difference is that I know you are worthy of equal time in places where you pay taxes. Seems like I have the tolerance you do not. You are discriminating aginst others based on personal belief while I am not.

As a fairly new CUB scouter, I am not sure of the timeline that requiremmnet #1 takes, but seems as if requirement #2 - specifically Obediant would pretty much rule out Eagle. Back to #1, how long was he in detention? Week? Month? 6 months? Year?(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Okay, not exactly the best choice of words. Our program year is not over, but by this time, most rank badges are met or obtained, most dens are pretty much finished with all the planned activities and we are kinda just playing it by ear. So many sports and etra cirricular activities are kicking in by this time that attendance is down. Oh, this is late April by the way, not already passed now. And honestly, this is my first time daling with this, so I won't argue that it'spractical as compared to other programs as I don't know. But at this point, we are done with den "Requirement reaching" goals. Or better put, we arent' working on things tnat have to be done to earn your rank badge. By now, it's all electives and arrow points. As far as the whole year, again, not best choice of words, but just meanuing kids who didn't drop out or stop participating 2,3 ,5 ,months ago.

Okay, I'm trying to understand something here: Overall, the message I am getting is that by letting all cubs participate in the crossover, we are somehow disrespecting the program ment for the scouts. But what if the scouts themselves do not seem to have an issue? What if they don't feel disrespected by having all their friends participate in aceremony that signifies completion of a rank and mobvement to the next one? Another premis that is held in here is KIS-MIF. Also many , many coments are made about how to retain kids for next year as well as having a fun, exciting program. Yet as soon as somebody does, a bunch of adults belittle you for doing what the adults percieve as insulting. Well thats great if you are insulted, but since the whole program is about the boys, and ALL the Cubs including the Webelos had a blast and didn't act insulted, I think somebody forgot the "disrespected" cub's mindset. Has anybosy had a Boy Scout go rogue or drop out of the program because he was insulted by a Cub Scout crossing over/ graduating to/ starting the next Cub Scout rank? (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

National should never ever give an"End all" definition of active. And I'll tell you why: Suppose National has a meeting and it lasts a whole 2 weeks, The members attending do their best to come up with the best definition of active possible. They consult lawyers and even allow for certain exceptions. It is printd, every council, district, trooppand pack gets that final end all definition. it is implimented and actively enforced. Then 1 week later, a scout has an issue pop up that nobody foresaw as something that could happen. Then what? Thing is, nobody anywhere can forsee all the possible issues or problems that couls foreseeably arrise. There is no way to adjust or allow for all potential isses. So the prudent thing to do is allow flexibility for unforeseen issues which is what they have done. The rule isn't perfect - no doubt about that, but it allows "Common Sense Flexibility. So far as read, the rule says how to determine if a scout is active , and how to mske sure you don't drop a kid who was about to get active again.

Merlyn, Another simple observation on my part: You claim to be disrciminated against, yet from what I see here on this site, your only complaint is that a groups of people who happen to believe in God are not letting non believers lead in their club. Believeing in God is a part of what makes up scouting. It is one of the MANy things that makes BSA what it is. So you do not meet ALL of the requirements to be in this club? So? This is not the only club there is. BSA never said that the government should outlaw athiesm , nor ban athiests from schools, public parks, or any place that uses tax money (even though athiests pay taxes too) . Yet you fight tooth and nail and all you guys do all the time is try to stop people who have a beliefe from doing the same as you. Why do you fight against people who have religion so much? Is it because you are predjudices against us? Is it discrimination? By what your guidlines are, I'd say so! We do not set up websites to fight you. We do not go to athiest meetings, clubs and websites to question your every move. (Although I have no doubt you get your share of nuts doing so- but hey, I'm not implying anything!) So where does this leave us? The discriminator is the one who cries descrimination!

Merlyn, Please, please tell me you do not have the audacity to try and tell me that a school or law enforcement agency discriminated agaisnt an athiest for the sake of being an athiest. Now, if a Catholic school did not allow an athiest, well, who would honestly be surprised? It is a CATHOLIC school after all. As for law enforcement, was an athiest arrested or at the minimum removed for interuppting or disrupting a public meeting to the point of causing chaos.But that isn't limited to athiests, that is anybody that does that including the local preacher of a church ( yep, seen it done myself!) Well, if the school was letting the local chapter of American Athiests use the gymnasium for a meeting or dinner, then I would not expect to be welcome or allowed in if I showed up with a box of bibles while dressed as Jesus. Being that it was (basically) an anti religion function, then yes I would still take that position. Why? Because the school allowing your group (as taxpayers) to use the school is not a sign of support, endorsement or approval of your groups ideals. It is only a sign of allowing equal use by all groups. Now, I get that as an athiest, you pretty much lump all religions as just being a religion, but it doesn't work that way. Religions have more diversity and differences than music genres or types of foods . Or look at it as car entghusiasts: This groups likes Corvettes, another only likes 69 Stingrays. Another cannot fathom how anybody likes anything other than BMW's. A boat fanatic might lump car lovers into one group, but he;d be wrong. Such is the same as religion. You yourself ought to know more wars have been started because of differences in religions. So what is my point about that? Law Enforcement is not a religion. Neither is school. Neither is government, but by allowing religious groups to conduct meetings or whatever they do.. they are allowing more diversity than you realize. But at the same time, they are not endorsing, demanding participation in, or "respecting one religion" over others. They are simply allowing the many different cultures of taxpaying citizens ( who are garanteed protection and representation under the Constitution) - both religious and non - to use a citizen's tax funded building. Meaning all those religios peole paid their share of taxes that created the schools and pays the law enforcements salaries. So let me be point blamk: If you as at taxpayer want to use a school or have police help you hold a athiest function...have at it. I don't care. You pay the taxes, then you have the right as far as I am concerned. But notice one difference between you and I : I being the evil religious guy - I do not have any problem with you usoimng anything I paid taxes to support or that is government tax funded/ supported or whatever you want to call it. I have no problem with you living your life or speaking your mind,. I do not have any issue with your vies or beliefes. Yet you, cannot stand to sit and let me, as an equal tax paying citizen enjoy one of my liberties as garanteed by the Constitution of the United States. We are both granted equal rights, yet you want to squash mine and deny me the resources that we both pay for. Personally, I wonder how you guys get the idea religion is so bad when it is you who wants to stop us, and not the other way around. Nobody, law or government said you couldn't start your own athiest scouting group. So instead of trying to destroy a group who's beliefs you don't like...why not create your own? BSA never said you could not be athiest, it only said that BSA is a scouting club for people who happen to believe in God. BSA will not try to stop you from having your own club. So it ia apparan6t to me that AA would rather see everybody unhappy instead of just trying to do their own thing . Make everybody conform to one ideal. Wait, didn't Stalin try that? Sorry Lisabob, it digressed into which you did not want!

Dumb ole double post!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Originally, I started to wonder if , maybe the first issue was free, but you were supposed to check a box or let them know you want to continue the free subscription. Problem was, I didn't see any thing of that nature. Maybe it's coming right behind the MB requirements.

Let me put it in a more simple way: I watch tv, but not very much. I have cable so I have around 10 chanels plus all the other PPV and music channels and stuff. I can say I watch about 3 hours a week of tv and do it between 4 channels. I do not care for most of what is on. But here's the real simple part: I don't watch those shows or channels. Hmmm? Not sure why the "spin" notice popped up, I didn't do that . Unless I screwed something up.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Merlyn.. Beavah brings up an awesome point. Daily practice vs formal wriiten policy. Now, I suppose if I had to write up an official description of me( like product descriptions of item for sale), I'd have to at some point write down "Performs duty to God" in that description. But what does that mean? What does it mean to you, the next guy, my bestfriend and what does it mean to me? WEll, I have no idea or care what it means to you, the next guy or my best friend. Why? Because what it means to you is based on your opinion and slant and has nothing to do with what I think and believe. But for the hell of it, I will say what my duty to God means to me: It means living under good morals and ideals. It means treating people in the way I would want to be treated. It means not jumping into fights and starting fueds, but at the same time, standing up for myself and the little guy. Likewise, to me, it also means I will not jusdge others based on face value or looks. I will not think of myself as better than others due to my race, ethnicity, welfare or locale. I will say I am better than those who spare no expense to harm others,but not better than the poor family down the road. It means I live and treat others as I would want to be treated myself. It means realizing that all are equal and are equally allowed their rights to be different too. Doing my duty to God is how I live, and honestly - in my beliefs - has nothing to do with attending a gathering in a bulding on a weekly basis or telling others how to live. But here's the thing... As a member of BSA and as a registered leader, I am looking at the whole package and not just any one item. Same as my truck.I looked at different brandsa and models of trucks. I did not find a single truck that had all the features I wanted while excluding those I did not. But I did find a truck that had enough of the most important features while not having too many of those I do not like! Scouting, my line of work, my favorite online sites, etc.. are all this way. So is my neighborhood, favorite restaurant, my computer and so goes the list. But just like all those things as compared to scouting.. I did not have to buy that truck. I could have bought another one or a car instead. I could shop at a different store or get another job elsewhere. But since I did Join BSA of my own free will, I will aslo make the best of the good stuff while not transfixing on the bad. By the way, to keep saying that BSA is dishonest is dishonest on your part. BSA does not deny it's policies. Just as you do not advertise your full name, physical address, telephone number, skin color, education or personal likes in movies- but you don't deny them either. Especially since BSA does not use a 47 page application form. BSA does not specifically advertise that parents cannot drink ber and drive drunk in the middle of a jamboree either, but I'm sure you wouldn't say that they were being dishonest when they call the cops on the first person who does just that. BSA does not specifically say I cannot bring 4 trained attack dogs on each camping trip. ( go ahead, look it up) but you know what will be said when I try. Here's the deal: You do not agree with BSA and it's policies. Okay, that's your right. But guess what, I do not agree with lots of groups, events, ideas and happenings. What do I do abouit it? WEll, if they do not take place on my property uninvited and I am not forced to attend... I do nothing! It does not hurt me or personally affect me. But I am mature enough to know that the worl;d does not revolve around only my personal likes and dislikes. If I don't like it just because I don't...well tough crap for me! There are clubs all around me. I do not HAVE to join them. I do not have to have the same favorite food as everybody else, Nor same favorite color, Favorite vehicle or sports team. But I will not try to prevent them from having those favorites no more than I expect them to stop me.