qwazse

Scouting includes Bhuddism because, some Buddists happen to be deists of whan form or another. A scout who is trying to sort out his religious beliefs through the lens of modern Bhuddism may ultimately settle on atheism, or not. The same can be said for many folks (I think I'm one of them) who tried to sort out their beliefs through modern science. And, as a practical matter most troops will consider a boy in that "sorting" stage of life for his tenure in scouting. We're laid back, just like gaY scouT experienced. That's because most of us religous types in scouting have found that God spoke loudest to us through nature and not through Bible-pounding adults. But, we're not doing a boy that's settled on atheism a favor by "sweeping it under the rug." The "it's only a stage" approach is too patronizing. And the "we'll give you a pretty medal anyway" approach undermines the brand of the award. The best we could do is after he's camped with us for years and earned 21+ MBs, help the boy hold his head high and turn down an award that logic should dictate is beneath his beliefs. It would be just like letting a muslim kid take holy communion so he would not feel left out. The preist/pastor would be offended if we let him, and it would be an insult to his beliefs. Same with adults who have settled on a sexual orientation that our organization looks frowns on. No point in fooling them or ourselves into playing some variation of "don't ask, don't tell" and thinking everyone will be ok.

It is a mistake to assume that crew members more advanced scout skills. We have several things going against us ... 1. A lot of venturers were never boy scouts, so they missed out on 3 years of training. 2. A lot of crews specialize in one activity (say skiing) and don't camp much. 3. We have the same problems troops have coordinating older scouts into a unit. Heck our crew is a distinctly outdoor group and we're lucky if we get 6 camping nights a year. 4. Since crews have diverse foci, it is hard to hold an event that attracts multiple crews in one location. 5. Since there are fewer crews than troops they have to travel farther to have the same turn-out. All of these things conspire to cause a crew to be isolated and miss out on scouting ideals. Thus is important to include venturers as participants at district events.

Hate to be armchair psychiatrist, but some phobias are treated by immersion therapy. If a waiver really matters, get the opinion of a psychologist with experience sucessfully treating water phobias. The point is not to waive rank, but to find out if the boy has a treatable problem or not. Sencondly, not making rank is a poor excuse for dropping out. The boy needs encouragement to excel in other activities, earning all the non-aquatic MB's he can over the next couple of years while he sorts this swimming thing out.

Wow! The church pays for none of our units' fees (like some of you lucky ones), but they do keep the heat on and give us substantial storage space. Right now only one youth is a member. We point that out to our youth constantly. There are a lot of "whiz-bang" youth ministries at neighboring churches, but none of them have made the commitment to start a pack, troop, or crew. Ours does all three. Our kids do the favor by showing up at Scout Sunday, and providing the occasional service day or Eagle project. Sounds like this is not unusual.

ASM's who are in it for their own boys should be strongly encouraged to start their own troop. Members of committee who put in time for other boys (helping with two deep when their kid isn't going, etc ...), should be strongly encouraged to be ASMs.

I was thinking about cross-over parents ... try having the SPL give them "the talk" while the boys are off getting acquainted with their troop guide. Keep in mind that you will probably have to have a follow-up discussion on the patrol method six months later. If our SM is not causing the most trouble, as per Thomas54, we have a problem. Likewise, as Crew Advisor, if I'm not causing the most trouble, we have a problem. (AK-Eagle, This includes troubling CC's who think I shouldn't be spelunking and driving on the same day!)

What do you mean by "nothing"? Have they elected officers? How many meetings have they had in the past month? How many activities have they had in the past four months? Are meetings announced at least a few days in advance? Your situation happens a lot, and there may or may not be reasons for it. Scoutnut suggested a good starting point. Be careful that you don't come off like your blaming it on your kids, explain that when youth are part of the solution for one crew, they become a great resource for lots of crews.

I take a break for the weekend and look what I miss out on! gayS couT: in reply to your answer ... Q1. Not enough information. (You know, like in the test which says at the top: "make sure you read all of the instructions before starting!") Q2. Still not enough information. Are you going to stand up for your beleifs and drop out of this organization? There are a few God-denying sodomites whom I will trust to lead my Christian kids in some activity or another, because they demonstrate an otherwise high moral character. Part of that character includes not "sweeping under the rug" a conflict with one group's core issues simply because they feel strongly that those issues should be peripheral. In other words, I know where they stand, they know where they stand, my kids know where they stand. They do good work. They are truly gifted (by their Creator, although I have yet to convince them of that, or of the whole straight thing!). So, I suggest if you are convinced that *you* are such a moral example, you start (or join) a youth movement open to athiestic homosexuality. We Eagles may be a little bitter that you swept things under the rug while other boys had to seriously reckon with their faith in front of a bunch of adults probably for the first time in their lives, but we'll let that slide if you make a clean start of it.

If we have a half-dozen cross-overs at the same time, we form a NSP for 5-6 months. The TG's goal is to get the joining rank and maybe tenderfoot requirements down. Each boy may not make rank, he'll just recieve instruction. Since attendance at activities is far from perfect, the new scouts usually get folded into the existing patrols for the weekends. At summer camp, permanent patrol assignments are made. We give our boys the lattitude of completely rehsaping themselves every year (new name, new yell, new flag). In terms of relationships this seems to work pretty well. The troop guide gets a run for his money for 6 months, and by then he may feel like running for SPL. The new boys build new friendships gradually while still retaining the old ones. Then after summer camp, each PL can assess where his boys are on the trail to first class, and suggest program accordingly.

A COR whose kid is in a unit will probably operate differently than one who never had kids in scouting, and both will operate differently than one whose kids have graduated scouting. We've experienced all three. More importantly, take a long hard look at the COR's training record when you visit a unit.

BD, Scout parent = volunteer. Eliza, return to your superiors (be they your boys or other parents) and say that there are no reputable purveyors of sleds suitable for a district klondike derby! But, you could probably call some scouts or venturers who may have a one in their garage. They may loan it without even asking for a generous donation to their coffers. For example, if you are in the Pittsburgh area IM me.

A civic event would be an appropriate time to wear SOME of your medals (ie Eagle medal or the like) This is an important point that folks often neglect. The Eagle medal is not just for your scouting uniform. If one attends "tie and tails" social events where medals are worn, one could wear his eagle on his lapel. Also, for scout Sunday, you might want to encourage former eagles to pull their medals out of the attic and put them on their "Sunday best". (Actually, if you encourage their wives, it's more likely to happen!) That's the point of medals, they are meant for formal occasions long after the uniform doesn't fit. (E.g., when my uncle went back to visit Normandy, he brought his purple heart to wear on his dinner jacket.)

I don't know, but I think it's the same reason why my church promotes small group Bible studies. It's easy to get lost in the crowd if your group is more than 8. My crew has activities that involve 4 to 40 kids. Good memories come from all of them, but I think they cherish the ones when the numbers are on the small side.

It doesn't sound like capability was the issue. Otherwise the point of contention would not be when to cruise, but rather to cruise at all! But, this brings up another, more personal, approach to Mrs. X. "The other youth and I are getting the impression that you lack confidence in our ability carry out our responsibilities. Was there anything that we did that gave you this impression? What can we do to regain your trust? We would like to restore things to where the brunt of the work from planning on down is in the youths' hands. How can we act to rebuild that relationship?" If she realizes that her actions convey something that she doesn't intend, and that it affects you on a more personal level, she might be more sensitive the next time. Plus it opens up the conversation to give you an idea of what you might do differently. (E.g. log minutes from your skype conversations ASAP.) Without this kind of conversation, your Skipper may manage to reset boundaries so the adults "behave", but they can wind up feeling rejected when what we really want is a little personal growth on everyone's part.

Tell your young adults we appreciate their contribution to the BSA. It keeps registration costs down for the rest of us!

So do all of the seabase medical forms I circulated two months ago still work?

Engine - I'd consider 60 a big troop. That said, it probably could benefit from leadership in "there's-not-a-patch-for-that" areas. I wholeheartedly agree with the above suggestions. Also is a venturing crew available to these boys? POR's while serving in a crew count. This can be more of a hassle, because ... 1. Crew officers may have a different standard for holding office. Joining a crew just because you need a POR may be a non-starter, unless the boy backs it up with real work. Upon board of review, the troop committee may need the boy to explain a crew POR in more detail than if it were a troop POR where they may have seen the fruit of his labors. 2. They boy may be intimidated by leading older youth in a crew or he may simply not want to be involved in Venturing. 3. The paper pushers at your council may be in denial about recognizing PORs from a crew if the Eagle Application is primarily through the troop. Anyway, this may be an option for one of your boys if you can can coach him in 1, he can overcome 2, and you are willing to stand by the him in 3.

OGE - Our venturers/SA's only pay one fee to whichever unit they are primary. They are a multiple of the other unit(s). I leave it up to the boys to decide which they want. Another advisor in our council automatically registers his boys as primary with the crew when they turn 18 and it's up to them to push the adult application, which costs nothing since it is a multiple application. PE - "Special provision" for Eagle's must have been a local rule. All of my young ASM's growing up were not Eagles. Regardless, National only gets $15/year from each of our members. We don't pay extra (not even $1) to promote a youth to adult in the same unit.

Some adults require constant reminding to take a step back. I'm one of them, and have learned to take my cue from certain adults, ignore others, and lay the law down to others. To buy yourself some time, think of something really challenging that your crew does not like doing but probably should (recruiting, generating promotional materials, attending district meetings, getting adults trained) that you can ask Mr. and Mrs. X to take on. The other way to approach this is to become real sticklers for Robert's Rules or some other parlimentary procedure that governs who has "voice but no vote." Build it into your by-laws. This has some down-sides (one being that it hasn't caught up with the internet age), but on the plus side it lays out how plans are to be submitted. (E.g., "I'm sorry, but a motion to approve attendance at the regatta was never made in the advance of the time required by our by-laws.") Cuts out the adult/youth distinction. Reminds everyone of how to give due courtesey to everyone else.

... riding jblakes horse a little further ... EDGE also assumes there is no reference besides the teacher. That's why I'll sign off on the teaching method requirement if a scout tells a noob to read the Handbook, then shows the Handbook, and the boy does the Handbook. If that boy who just taught that skill can't remember what EDGE stands for, I'll probably offer him some chocolate as well as my initials. ... oh and for tossing kids in deep water ... ability groups trump teaching method. If you've been explained and demostrated by the best, you ain't any further along than the kid who did some light reading about strokes the other day. You're "first jump" into deep water may be within reach of a guard's pole, but you're the one being tested. Either do, or go back to the safer area.

1T: In some situations, I can agree with you. But my read on the situation, and I could be wrong, is that the young PL lacks confidence. In that case, letting him come to a wrong conclusion and failing is worse than forcing him to come to the right one. It depends on the "fail". Sleeping on a pile of rocks really is not life threatening. On a ledge with a 50' drop .... So, for the young PL who makes that first time tough decision, at the end of the weekend let him know that you are proud that he kept his patrol safe from harm. I usally end with " ... and I promise to never treat you like you're a girl scout." (And for you GS fans, I know that many come to my crew competent ready to lead, but let's not tell the boys!) For crew activities (which often do allow for lots of failure on an individual basis) I have chocolate bars as "epic fail" awards. That tends to blunt the pain.

One more piece of advice, have fun! Here's an example ... Have your boys pick an activity that they would like to do with/for every 5th grader in your community (ski day, night hike, bb shooting, catapult building ...). Publicize it in your school. They usually have a student directory. Invite every boy. Your sixth and seventh graders might want the chance to skip school and visit the elementary school. During the event recognize any boys who happen to be Webelos and are finishing their cub scout career. Hand out BSA applications to all guests. Let the Webelos know that their transfer fee is only $1. You get the idea. One less B&G in a scout's life will do him more good than harm.

Why should dues paid by a Tiger parent be used to pay for another scout's patch and a $20 - $40 plaque? I agree. Drop the plaque. Maybe even drop the Webelos patch. Explain (if anyone asks) that some folks had a hard time keeping up with pack dues, so you decided to go old school and focus on essentials. That will probably be the most likely decision when you lay out the what's in the treasury and what the net expense is of crossing over. Also, consider going to monthly dues (at least for Webelos) the following year. Our troop usually waives dues for cross-overs (we just take $1 transfer) with the understanding that the boy is a member in good standing with the BSA. If he is not, he has to pay the full price for registration anew. We catch up with troop dues at the end of the year, once the young man has decided that we are worth maintaining a membership. So, you might want to touch base with the troop committee to see what they are expecting.

In advising about by-laws, point out that the ones worth making are ones that won't get thrown out on appeal. Or, to put it another way: "No point in legistlating anything that'll only make a lawyer rich." (No offense, Beav.)

Eagle007 - Just handled a "jaded beast of jealousy" issue with two boys who (before a mutual friend became one's girlfriend) were best buddies! It took months for everyone to readjust, and because the young lady was *not* in the crew, I think it made matters worse. Be it Venturing or other movements for youth in that age range, I've found those "morale dampeners" to be rare. For each guy or girl with that kind of drama going on, there are dozens who grow into their relationships without much drama at all. Same with the 16 y.o. officer. She may need to back off the program for the sake of school and the baby. Her character may be unbecoming of an officer. But there is no one-size-fits all formula, and the CO and other officers have a big say in how it plays out.