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Let's not forget money. The mere cost of membership -- for those who are allowed to be members -- has outpaced inflation. Other cultural issues come into play: - Single parenting. This group has to work harder than others to make scouting work for their boys. This number may increase, I suspect, when unions where there is an inequality of reproductive burden are no longer held in unique esteem. - Post-Modern Nomads. We are commuting longer than any generation before. This includes the average scout's home being further from school/troop./ball field than ever before. Each activity involves a trek, while there are fewer hours for shuttling to/from activities. - Profusion. (Yes it's a thing.) There's more stuff to do. The football team doesn't have the best running backs because most are playing soccer. Our school musical runs for two weekends, then there's the state-wide competition. Then there's the awards. Meanwhile softball season is starting. Plus online gaming and other camps. The value of BSA is diluted by the competing value of these other activities. I will also have to say, an elitist attitude. No one should brag about excluding certain groups, but some scouters do. No one should brag about our boys, except when they show themselves as public servants, but "Are You Tougher Than A Boy Scout" is the line for the day. I had one advisor/SM at his wits end because his boys were picking on a venturer because "she could never be and Eagle and the Silver Award would never count for as much." It's a tough balance between pride in your work and humility towards others, but I am a little concerned that we haven't quite got that right.

(Buyer beware: the following comes from limited experience advising ILSC, but I have a suspicion that what works for venturers also applies here.) On the plus: twenty boys! That's an awesome number. Like has been noted above, ILST is not patrol leader training. So don't make it that. If all these boys signed up for leadership training, you want their learning experience to reflect what you'd like to see in their leadership experience over the next year -- regardless of the patch on their sleeve. Look at what I've clipped from your OP. In one paragraph, you set the SPL's to conduct the training and the ad-hoc patrols do their thing. In the next paragraph, you don't like your SPL's doing all of the heavy lifting. If you don't approve of a management model, DO NOT CONDUCT TRAINING VIA THAT MODEL! Your course has three modules. Split the boys into 3 patrols. Hand each patrol a module, and tell them they are responsible to present the material of that course. You may assign an SPL/ASPL to each patrol, but make clear in no uncertain terms that during their turn presenting their course, a patrol is not to give their senior leader a speaking role. Talk to your seniors, and ask them to do their best to support their respective patrol as a "servant leader." You might encourage them to help one or two boys who they've seen taking a "back seat" to step up their game just a little. What will that actually look like? I dunno, it's your troop and you know these boys. But, leadership skills starts by practicing leading. Not by being lectured.

E441, you'd better apply those courses to everything you do this coming year, otherwise just tear up that certificate or whatever they did give you! This is where adults don't get it. In the ideal scouting program, 14-20 year olds would be taking over the staffing at every level of the organization while the rest of us sit on our hands, write checks, or advise a few key youth. Any of you old farts want to know why many 16+ year-olds leave the BSA? There is nothing to do, and they perceive that things will chug along fine without them. Why? Because only the truly brazen ones can step up without some bone-headed old fart (myself included) muscling them out of the way.

Our youth who went to Philmont and in the process (before and after) planned two multi-tiered weekend backpacking trips for our troop, crew, AND his Philmont contingent? He payed for it by a lawn bushiness that he's kept through trade school. The only difference between doing it that way vs. earning the same via an ISA: the troop got ZERO dollars from his hard work. He contributed to the life of the troop in lots of other ways (the crew, not so much ... too busy mowing lawns ), so nobody complained. Had he sold the enough in popcorn and other fundraisers over a couple of years to pad his ISA for the trip, the troop would have got 'bout $1K in their general fund. That's 4 camper-ships paid in full between troop and council funds. Just sayin' ...

Well if all the boys had done it at meetings, they would not want to do it at camp! It's time to stop thinking about awards and such and start thinking about the boy. The point is to get the boy comfortable on outings with buddies. If it takes time to do that, then take the time! Either dad goes to camp with the boy, or they hold back a year, or maybe both. Idea: Have the boy invite the den to camp in the back yard! Not for the requirement, but just to get him comfortable with his buddies in the tent with him. When son #2 was 11 and crossed over, one cool morning he walked across the field, found my tent, and asked to hunker down at 4 am. I wasn't about to pull out the "boy led" rhetoric. I unzipped my bag and let him spoon up. He just needed that one more morning knowing that I was there for him. Since then, he's been just fine. Let me repeat: WORK WITH THE BOY, NOT THE REQUIREMENTS!!!!

Yes! You should have had this conversation. It is in no way a violation of youth protection. There is no other way to per-arrange a conversation. The boy wanted to talk about something constructive that could be resolved quickly. You talked. It was resolved. There was one less unnecessary meeting in the universe. This a great way to handle it! Thank you for your service to our boys. I'm sure if more time with a scout is needed, you will make appropriate arrangements for a meeting in a public place or in your home with another adult(s) or scout(s) present.

First, let me get it off my chest (probably stealing BD and a few others' thunder) that this particular aspiration of yours and your friends is one of the dumbest things I've heard of yet. But it's not harming anybody, so I'm gonna pretend that I support you and set you along to acquire your left-handed smoke shifter. (Anti-hazing activists, just tape your fingers before you type!) It sounds like you are trying to argue from the standpoint of fairness. Remember the thread about female venturers and O/A? The fairness argument, although sound, is not strong. You (and your friends who may be rankled by this) need to determine how "being fair" will enable your council to "be great." Then, build a solid plan to pitch it to the people who are keeping the gate. For example, you could say that if your council announces that several youth did exceptional work and earned awards that have heretofore been reserved for scouters, it may inspire more adults to take time out of their busy schedule and attend UoS. If you explain to your scout executive that you are more concerned about increasing the quality of the program than having the same plaque on your wall as some adult does, you may begin to gain some traction. On the course organizers' end, they might see giving the same award to youth as diluting the value of the certificate. Or, maybe they are concerned that once you all become adult scouters you won't participate in UoS because you already have the certificate from when you were a youth. You will need to figure out how to demonstrate that these risks are minimal relative to the benefits of changing policy. In other words, it's not enough that it matters to you. To persuade folks, it needs to matter to them.

I've never taken anything that comes out of NCS seriously since it said lifeguards shouldn't have whistles. Everything you listed just screams "catapult". The engineering would involve classes of levers, fulcrums, construction, etc... the technology would involve guidance, and upscaling from your marshmallow/dowel models, (e.g. "How much of a lever could we get from that tree?" "If we could, how far might it throw?" "If our target were on the other side of a hill, how would a scout figure the direction to aim?" "If we were on the moon or Jupitor would it work differently?" "How?") But seriously, you could take nearly anything, bicycles, PWD cars, mess kits, first aid, and generate a STEM program from it.

How are these council-specific programs related to the "College of Commissioner Science" degrees? I honestly have no clue about Laurel Highlands Council, but I'll let you all know when I find out.

It just doesn't seem like there's enough of us taking these perpetrators (before their false ideas are set into actions) on forced marches into bear country ...

NG, my Orthodox family gyrates quite well in both evangelical and catholic circles. Your concern is a non-issue. Our "cousins who left us" might be impulsive, but they are not naive as to where their theology comes from.

By all means if a pro guide is best for the job hire him. It might amount to a nominal fee, but just think of the benefit to the troop if a small number of boys tap their ISAs to again those skills. In all seriousness, most outfitters offer MBCs as part of their operation. The cost is little or nothing over their rental rates, and

Well, there's no one person to turn to. A strong committee should put a CC/COR "in their place". The other way around: any leader with good followers gets into the habit of getting approval from them before acting. Your unit commissioner may be able to sit all of you down and point out that some of the adults are feeling railroaded and that is taking the fun out of scouting for them. But your district chair may have never assigned a UC because CC/COR is putting on a good show of it at roundtable. 'Bout the only single person that can tell them that they need to change is the institutional head. But, in my experience, the best people to effect change are the parents who take time to sit on a committee and insist that business be transacted differently.

Considering the number of times I've had to dig through a dozen of those buggers just to get something out of the glove compartment ...

On one trip, a scout was mesmerized at how I "randomly" picked berries, roots, lichens, and succulent leaves for snacks as we walked along the trail. I explained to the scout "all the better to remember those 10 plants! Besides, I save my trail mix in my pack for those points on the trail where the bears beat me to God's snack cart!"

I see camps start charging units a fee for electricity use.

All the better to help a receiver find the end zone on a foggy morning!

One way or another, the fundraising is gonna happen. Either every boy will do odd jobs and pay for their own fees/gas/uniforms/awards/etc.... Then donate a bunch of hand-me-downs and spare change to any kid he knows needs it or expense that everyone at the time can pitch in. Or, the unit will maintain a large budget with accounts for each boy that enables him to see if he's done enough to cover his cost to the troop for serving in it.

This sounds like a "friends of" organization, and the COR is representing nobody but family. How many adults attend Pack committee meetings? Does the COR attend roundtable and council events? (I can kinda guess the answer.) If someone is behaving this way, it's because nobody else stepped up and said "That's not how things should work. Let us do our job, and you do yours."

Our SM challenged us to set them up blindfolded!

Don't forget those veggies! An adjacent campsite once had one scout who fried asparagus in garlic and olive oil. My troop did without me and my tin bowl for a half hour that day! Also, don't be afraid to ask mom or dad how to cook your favorite meal. Maybe you can make it work with your mess kit, maybe not. But, it's definitely worth trying. (If it's something complicated, you might not have it down by next month, but by the end of the year ... just maybe.) FYI, When I was 13 (just the other day) I stared down my last meal of franks and beans by the campfire and said to myself "nevermore!" Campfire meals have been awesome ever since.

E441, I'm really glad you (and presumably others in your crew) took advantage of UoS. I've only been able to get a couple of youth involved. I especially hope that during breaks, you offered your service as "graders" of the Dutch Oven course. In principle, I think ambitious youth should be awarded accordingly. But, I would rather them get their certifications outside of the "One Day Scouting" framework. For example, I've had very bad experience transferring the CPR course I took at UoS to what I needed for BSA guard re-certification. (They didn't confirm that the medic they got to teach the course had authority from Red Cross to issue cards!) I would hate for that to happen to a youth! For me, UoS degrees are a big joke, but the networking helps me be better advisor even if I don't get the pieces of paper (I can volunteer in other ways that don't need them). For youth, I would rather them work on "real world" certifications that they can be sure apply to jobs they want or schools they'd like to attend.

Our CoH was outside, by a campfire. We didn't have a proper fire circle of benches, so we brought out folding chairs. We're gonna change that next time. Best part: the WB staffer didn't anchor the log so it kept rolling off the table!

A friend of mine issued a test where each question had one of his students' names among the wrong response choices. Not seeing any of ours in your list, I don't know where to begin the process of elimination.