Old_OX_Eagle83

I'm advocating ethical decision making, and a system that removed even the possibility of the appearance of impropriety, as a "best practice". What I'm hearing is a lot of "cowboy talk" - talk of action without though of possible consequence. We must always think beyond "what is required", and explore the best way to handle things. Like many here, I'm an experienced scouter, and am sharing my point of view; one shaped from having been there, and done that,.

One of my character flaws is honesty. Despite knowing it's the answer you're looking for, and it will fuel the fire, yes. Yes, I do advocate co-ed sports, although not in the school. At the risk of derailing this conversation, I don't think sports have a place in schools, at least not beyond a fun non-organized activity engaged in during free time. I firmly believe Sports leagues belong in the community, not the school, but that another topic.To bring sports back in line with the topic, the real world, in the work place, men and women work, and compete, side by side. I do advocate in

BSA is like every corp out there in that those at the top receive ridiculous compensation, and those at the bottom have trouble making ends meet. Knowing a bit about how BSA is set up, and who is making what, I'd say start at the SE level, which need a 25% pay cut, to be divided equally between every paid employee of the council. From there, working toward the top, cut all staffs by 50%, and all executive salaries by 50 %, putting the savings into property budgets. The CSE could do with a 60% cut in total compensation, and a 75% cut in allowable expenses, these funds could be used to offs

You're correct on both counts. The District/Council "should" be the approving body for all MBC, and they "should" all be registered. My intent is to share a best practice that will prevent even the appearance of impropriety. I'm a former SM, and learned that a bit of CYA is a very good thing, keeps you out of the crosshairs.

To answer your questions: As a UC, OA Adviser, former SM, and CC, I've talked with lots of committee members ... some of the conversations I even enjoyed ... most not I avoid pop music like a cat avoids water. I don't watch the Grammy awards, I frankly don't care about others opinions on music. Although I'm frequently accused of being "old school", the past is the past, and the future has no room for gender separation in organizations, schools, the workplace, or any activity. As much as I love BSA, it has lots of "Archie Bunker" types, and think it's still decades ago

"One of the challenges of being a good SM is what they don't know because when someone states mater-of-factly that the SM can't be a MBC, the SM might believe it, thus tying their hands of an opportunity for helping a scout’s growth." Read carefully, I never said a SM can't be a MBC. The SM isn't an ideal choice for MBC, he has enough to do, and the scouts need association with multiple adults. Why is it unethical for the SM to approve himself as MBC, present the material, and sign off on it? I think the answer is in the question. A MBC should be a subject matter expert, an

Basement, there is a slightly better way GSUSA units can be ran, and I would have put it a bit more kindly, but in the end you've defined Girl Scout Troop function quite well. My oldest was a girl scout (she's soon to be 30 now), and I did help out in a number of roles, but never that of leader ... it was made clear that my wife was appreciated as a leader, but I was not correctly equipped. Train wreck sums it up quite well. BSA needs to go full co-ed top to bottom, I know many girls, from 7-14, who would line up to participate in the program our Pack and Troop offers.

Although this is officially something that should not happen, as this group has created the appearance of speaking for BSA, it would be difficult to chastise the scouts and leaders for participation. We do have to practice what we preach ... A Scout is Brave. A Scout can face danger although he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him.

We stopped using it because of the exact issue you have.

There right there on the Blue Card ... it requires signatures of separate people for a reason. In the case in question it's likely no one's taking advantage, and that thought never occurred. However, it's important to prevent in the appearance of impropriety. If the SM is the only choice for MBC for a specific badge, where's the downside in having an ASM handle the typical SM part of the transaction? The up side is everyone's behinds are covered. For an official ruling on how to do things go to the District Advancement Chair.

I agree David, except in one thing, notifying the SE and CO are not optional steps. Failure to notify the SE and CO is a Charter violation. The SM and/or CC don't get to decide this scouts future with scouts, this matter isn't handled at that level. In as far as counseling the scout, that's certainly beyond the scope of a SM's role. Setting a poor example by not following the rules, and law, is also not appropriate for a SM. Not reporting a felony to law enforcement is a crime in every state I'm aware of. Distribution of narcotics to someone below the age od majority is a felony in e

King, in a word ... No

I absolutely agree that most church camps, most youth groups, and most finishing schools are also ideal. I say most because there are some of each that teach things that will not help our youth become productive members of today's society. My reference to a past long gone is talking about an age where male and female don't mix. Our separate programing speaks to an age where the genders weren't seen as equal, and women were viewed as unclean, a force of corruption. Although this nation is very backwards in many social respects, we're well beyond such ignorance. Scouting's dress code c

Good advice all

Barry, I agree, but there are checks and balances for a reason. Ethics dictate that he also act to preserve the checks and balances.

Gave it a good read, and another to take it apart. I'm huge on preserving tradition, but I always found the Brotherhood Ceremony flat, and uninspired, failing to met the stand set by the Pre-Order, Ordeal, and Vigil. I like what I'm reading, but the Jury is out until I see it done both well, and poorly.

The age of paper has ended, go digital and email. There's actually two other questions here: 1. Transparency to parents 2. To what degree to allow parental involvement in the committee. There are many different takes on these questions, and many different ways of doing things. I've seen one pack thrive with a scenario that a pack across town fails with, find what's right for you.

... and the correct answer is ask your District Advancement Chair (or his Adult Recognition person)

Dry doesn't even begin to describe the training, and it's even worse when you consider it should be done twice a year! One of the things I found helps is using a small group of senior scouts, possibly your NYLT trained scouts, as "comic relief with a purpose". At the beginning of every module have them do a short skit which is a group of scout leaders doing exactly the wrong thing in comic ways. Add in a few spontaneous run-ons to drive key points home.

We all must be diligent in our training, planning, and leadership; and always be prepared. Although there will be freak scenarios that we cant foresee, prevent, or counter, we must always do all we can to truly be prepared. These losses are horrible, but they should also be a reminder of our responsibility as program participants, and leaders. I don't know that anything could have been done to prevent these deaths, but we must always be prepared.

Ideally the SM should not be a MBC for his own scouts. If the SM needs to be a MBC for his own scouts the ethical thing would be to have an ASM, or MBC who is not the subject matter expert for this MB, verify completion and sign off as MBC with the SM signing his usual spot.

There are fundraising rules that cover excess funds, no biggie. However, here's a big issue: " A committee is formed each year and takes care of the planning, budget, acquiring of the facilities and equipment. The committee decides on a cost per family." THERES NO NEED TO FORM A COMMITTEE ... THIS SHOULD ALL BE HANDED BY THE PLC This is the Boy Scouts of America, not the Parent Scouts of America.

The Order of the Arrow is a Boy Scout program, administered by the local councils. If a scout is caught with illegal drugs on Council property the SE has to be notified. The SE is the ultimate authority in the OA Lodge and whatever decisions the council makes about the scout will also apply to OA participation. The OA is not an entity separate from BSA and local council and more than the Local Council's Camp is.

Can't agree with you on this one Basement. Part of being a good citizen, good values, and ethical behavior is learning how to effectively function in a diverse population. Just as our population is made up of multiple races, people of varied ancestry, and many faiths, our population is made up of two genders. Frankly I can't imagine a better setting for scouts to learn how to interact with members of the opposite gender then under supervision at scout camp. Frankly, it's time we integrate all the US Scouting Programs; we're clinging to a remnant of a past long gone. As far as dress c