Oldscout448

Sad  but true.  there was a scout who I thought would be a wonderful asset to the Order, best camper and leader in the troop.  He got  elected, went thru his ordeal, and refused to have anything else to do with OA.  When asked why his reply saddened me greatly.  " I was the only one who worked all day, the only one who kept my mouth shut. Everyone else was joking and goofing off. Even the members didn't care. If a big joke is all the OA is, I have better things to do with my time."

On 12/7/2018 at 10:26 PM, sst3rd said:

Oldscout448,

 

Our lodge shut down all chapter ceremony teams last year. We barely have a lodge ceremony team. OA has now become nothing but a service group. The mystique of the native American culture used in the OA was the pull. It's gone. 

sst3rd

@sst3rd

The fire is indeed burning less brightly than it was,  and National may be filling a big bucket of water  but I plan on keeping watch as long as there is an ember glowing.

I think I owe this to the memory of the  four advisors who showed me the meaning of the three Obligations.  Three  of them are gone now,  the fourth is living with the Comanche in Oklahoma.

Sometimes I feel like I am the last of the Mohicans,  old and worn out,  But the some of  scouts truly  love the ceremonies and that keeps me going.

Oldscout448   consultant to Standing Bear Ceremonies LLC

There is no rule forbidding it but it can and has been abused from time to time.
   I clearly recall the case of a CC, who was hell bent on her darling  son "earning" Eagle by age 14, signing  him off on lashing when he couldnt even tie a clove hitch, as well as  quite a number of other reqs.   The other scouts in his patrol were livid, and he to his credit was very embarrassed.  As a young ASM  {20} I had no realistic way of stopping this, so the scout and I would sit down on campouts and we would go over the signed off material until we both felt he had earned it. 

 I did sign off some things for my sons,  but I made sure they knew the subject well enough to instruct  in it.   Just in case.  After a while, although they still wanted me to teach them, they stopped asking me to sign anything off.  Too hard they said.

But 20 years later they can still lash logs together.😁

31 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

As Mark Twain said "reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."

There are something like 2,000,000 youth enrolled in BSA programs today.  Over 99,000 units as well . The BSA is far from being on it's last legs and it's demise is not imminent.  Out district and others around us have seen growth in the last two years.

It's convenient to say "the leadership of the BSA is incompetent."  I would argue that if anything, the leadership of the BSA in the past few years has been bold and is showing leadership to build the organization and make it stronger."  Yes the BSA is losing the LDS church.  It was a misapplication of the Scouting program to align it as the youth program for one faith.  The leadership made the bold move to invite girls to join.  They are being proactive and trying to set the organization up for the future.

My opinion is that the pessimism we see here on the forum has more to do with people who dislike recent choices by the BSA looking for opportunities to be critical of the program.

When the founders of Scouting started the program, there were not 2,000,000 members and almost 100,000 units.  They believed in the program and built it up.  They didn't bemoan the policies of the BSA, they make Scouting in their communities fun.

 

I would love to start a patrol or three of eager scouts,  go hiking, fishing, canoeing, and other fun and challenging activities,  as long as National and Council left us alone.

1 hour ago, Setonfan said:

Always curious when this topic comes up, how National is de-emphasizing adventure-  Maybe it's just me, but with all of the new programs at each of the High Adventure bases, councils doing everything from cave exploring to climbing, whitewater, mountain biking, not to mention pistols, ATV's PWC's, ziplines, etc.  What exactly has National taken out of the program?  Other than sending patrols of boys off on their own for camping (while there are those that say it destroyed the patrol method, frankly, my troop in the 70's didn't allow that, and I haven't found any of my peers who have said their troop or parents were Ok with it either). 

I may no have been common, but we did it when I was a scout, 69 thru '77

I love talking with our soon to be Eagles at their troop boards.  I try very hard to spend at least 75% of my time listening.  I view these  reviews not so much as a practice run for the scout but as feedback as how we did as scouters.  My stock questions  are  " If a new scout were to ask you what does  it mean to be an Eagle Scout how would you answer?"  and " If you were SM of this troop, what would you change?"

I have only ever heard of one scout  boy ever being failed at a troop level board.  He was a transfer from another troop, and had altered some of his older brothers blue cards to make them look like he had earned the merit badges.   

7 hours ago, shingobeek said:

My prediction is that within short order there will come the directive that all ceremonies will be conducted in a full class A uniform.

And honestly, as a former lodge chief, and as a former section chief - I have no problem with that. 

Then we are going to need totally new ceremonies. 

My current worry is Will there even be an Order in 10 years? 

jingle dress?

"The  work is done by them as shows up to do it."   

If CodyMiller is doing the job of  SM, then he deserves all the respect due that office.   

19, eh?  Props and a Scout salute to you! I was once an ASM for a brand new troop at that age. SM was a good guy but knew nothing about scouting. So I pretty much ran the whole show while he did the paperwork. 

As others have pointed out, being young gives you a closer bond with the scouts than is possible with us old folks. They will look up to you and copy you.  ( scared yet?)  The down side is that some of the older adults have a hard time seeing you as an adult.  I said things as a 20 year old to some 40 year old parents and was completely blown off. I say the exact same thing now and they say " Yes sir". Grey hair does have some advantages after all. Shouldn't be that way but it is.

So talk to the other leaders, explain to them your vision of what the troop should be, and how it's going to get there. Get them on your, that is to say scoutings, side. If all of them politely  tell the difficult parent "That's not how we roll here" it's probably going to be easier for him to accept than just coming from you. 

8 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

Ah, that would be the difference between @SSScout's district and ours. Our district advancement chair just issued a VERY strongly worded mandate to our units specifying that "under no circumstances are units or committees to conduct preliminary or 'practice' Boards of Review. The final Board of Review is the ONLY Board of Review, as stated in the Boy Scout Handbook and in accordance with the Guide to Advancement, and this is to be conducted only after all other requirements have been met. This does NOT include a 'trial run.' with another group of leaders. There is no need nor authorization for units, chartered organizations, or unit committees to schedule or demand a precursory Board of Review with an Eagle Scout Candidate."

Hereabouts such a " mandate" would be used to light the next campfire.

Mike,  you and I share much the same history, and I respect your opinions quite a bit.  Although my years on a ceremonies team were '74-'80.  I Absolutely agree that no chapter or lodge should flout National,  but as an individual who is not representing the Order in any way,  no sash, no patch, no mention of the Order at all,  please explain to me how National gets to tell me what I can wear.

Not to derail the thread, but this kinda sounds like why we no longer have any district camporees anymore.  Council started taking 10-15% off the top for  "expenses" 

Quite a lot of the scouts have bought their own materials, made their own regalia without any help whatsoever from the Lodge,   If they decide to serve the cubs by driving their car to an AoL and doing a ceremony that the pack has requested,without any reference to the Order, I do not see how a Lodge ,or even National ,has any right legal or moral to tell them no.

Oldscout

So we just drop the sashes and just carry on as before?     The ceremonies teams around here seem to think that's their best option right now.

In my familys case having spent decades in both BSA and GSUSA, this feels like watching your parents fight it out in divorce court.   

1 hour ago, cocomax said:

I think the best scouter training I have ever had has been the weeks that I spent at summer camp.  I also had the chance at camp to sometimes be the wise old scouter and pass on many of the interesting things I have learned about the game of scouting to scouters of all ages and experience levels.  

My goal is to know the current BSA rules and guidelines and then at the same time follow the lead of Green Bar Bill as much as possible and keep the game of scouting as fun as possible for both the boys and scouters around me.

The training classes are a good introduction to scouting, but they are only the beginning of the journey.

Amen!!   This cannot  be said to often

2 hours ago, Fred4550states said:

 

 

 

 

Tone?  Don't worry I'm unsubscribing.

Fine with me.    

Hoo  Boy !  That's  going back a ways.  I would need to dig out my old handbook collection to be sure,  but I think it was in "72 with the whole nightmare " improved scouting"  thing.

I know when I "crossed the bridge" in '69 it was a week before my 11th birthday and everyone in my Webelos den left one at a time when they turned 11.  It made for a steady (ish) flow of new Tenderfeet in the troop, rather than a huge influx once a year.    As others have pointed out ,it made troop guides and NSP unneeded .   Almost all of the scout skills I learned were taught one on one by the older scouts in my patrol. They were some very tough teachers because they understood, if I didn't know my stuff, the Fox patrol would kick our tails on the next campout.   and that meant those Foxes would be the ones eating the apple pie with ice cream that the SPL awarded as the prize.   It's very hard to hide in the back of the class when you are the sole student.  

30 minutes of your time?   Plus mileage?   I would hand them a bill for services rendered.   If they can afford concert tickets...

On 10/29/2018 at 9:16 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

As Julius Caesar said, "Alea iacta est." The die is cast. Informed the SM next week is our last one with the troop to finish things up. Also told the CM I will be stepping down as Webelos DL. I don't feel comfortable being the WDL for this pack anymore since the entire purpose was not only to fill a position, but promote the troop and prepare them to join it. I do not want a repeat of being blamed for stealing another troop's Webelos. 

 A quick question if I may.

I admit it's been about 20 years since I worked with Webelos, but I didn't promote any troop over another.  We visited 3 or 4 local troops and it was up to the cubs and their parents to pick out the troop that best fit their needs.    Have things changed ?

it's a new one on me as well.   I like the idea of having the tools in one place, but I'm not going to lay any of my axes, hatchets, knives, or saws on the ground.  

d

1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

 

 

If we do find a home in the other troop, the most effective thing WE can do is for my son to be an outstanding Den Chief for the local packs and help recruit them to his new troop instead of letting them go to his old troop.

Now that seems totally fair.