Oldscout448

Well sort of,  Firstly it's just for the chapter not the lodge, and not the ceremonies themselves that I could do.   But the figuring out of which  candidates are going to which site, on which date, finding guides,  arranging rides it's 4 hours each way,names, paperwork.   I assumed ( oh that word)  that the scout and adult on the Vigil committee had things well in hand.   But in the last few days I discovered that 

1   the lodge hasn't been in touch with the scout in about 5 months

2   the adult has gone awol for about the same period

3    the scout having never done this before and so had really no idea what he should do, did nothing

4   the candidates can't register without naming their guide.   They naturally have no idea 

So far the lodge hasn't responded to me either, so if anyone has hiked this trail before I could surely use some advice.   I have 17 days until the ceremony

PM me if you would be so kind.   WWW

Oldscout448

14 minutes ago, David CO said:

If you didn't speak up about not having elections when the guy you liked was SPL, then you shouldn't make that an issue now. You will sound like a hypocrite. 

We do not yet know that the former SPL was unelected,  it may be so or the SM may have suspended elections so that he could appoint all the junior leaders.   I have seen it happen and the result was not pretty.   

In any case the main focus here, assuming that the OPs account is totally factual, is a disfunctional  troop. not how a scout sounds

Further,  99% of Scoutmasters are indeed honourable men,  some few are not.    If we may not speak freely here then where?

Welcome,     

First   a deep breath, you are not the first scout to be in a situation such as this.   I am not sure what you mean by " retaliation"  but lets hold off on that for now.  OK?

The fact is you are going to need to work with the SM and SPL in the coming years,  and it is best if they can be persuaded to get back on track using small taps rather than a wrecking ball. I will admit that there are  rare times when there is simply no other option , but please leave it as an absolute last resort.   

It is a not unheard of for a father/son to be a SM/SPL, but it often results in problems.     It is very hard for any parent to stop seeing their son as their son and see him as just the SPL no matter how hard they try.  All parents tend to defend their offspring.  Its just hardwired into us. Thus the excuses for "James"  are understandable,  not right perhaps but understandable. Some SMs try to fight this by being extra hard on their sons, some ask an ASM to deal with any performance issues with the SPL.  It is also nearly impossible for a SPL to assert himself if the SM is overstepping his role ( appointing PLs or writing up all the patrols menus for the next camp out)  It is a rare 15 year old who can look a 40 year old in the eye and say " I'm sorry Sir, but you're doing it wrong."  Doubly hard if it's his Dad.   

How does your troop get its SPLs if there are no elections?  It's pretty clearly stated in many places that PLs and SPLs are elected positions.   Most troops have them every 6 months or so.

Has your SM been to any training?  If so what?      SPL same question

Dont make this a you vs them fight.  You will almost certainly lose.   As will the scouts caught in the crossfire.    Try to make it a "Scouting way" vs " the way we are currently doing it"  As quaze said be respectful.  If you can't respect the man at least respect the office.  

Props to you for reaching out for advice.

Oldscout

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 While I am not SM, it is affecting the other Scouts in the troop. ..... When something is affecting the number of Scouts that it is, it is my and other Scouters' problem that needs to be notified and rectified.

Agreed 

On 7/20/2018 at 11:48 AM, Setonfan said:

I seem to get involved in just about everything.

My mother used to yell at me for doing that.    

" So tonight beneath the heavens

sleep alone upon your ground sheet."

1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

 

To the OP: plan a separate event for with your son, invite his friends, the troop and the troop leadership to attend. Be happy and celebrate his accomplishment, and don't worry about what the Troop adults do or don't do. 

This  !

So now I hear rumblings that each lodge will need to get approval from their local tribe ( or descendants thereof )  in order to wear any regalia in public ceremonies.

This will be somewhat problematic for us since  as far as I have been able to discover the last historical mention of our local group was  circa 1760.

Living on the east coast does have its drawbacks

Here's hoping that the ceremonies are done well,  that he takes the 4 challenges seriously,  that he is mature enough to perceive that they are mere representations of the 4 inner challenges, the real Ordeal.

On a practical note  a large trash bag on the bottom end of a sleeping bag is a great way to keep it dry if the rain is slanting down hard.  Naturally you want your head on the lee side of the wind.

3 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

LOL Oldscout, I'd forgotten about that...the hidden candy bar...the oldest trick in the book!   Hence the weather eye during shake down, as you mentioned.

I recall taking a ground cloth, sleeping bag (Kmart's best, 8 lbs or so in weight) and a knife.

Yup, the old candy bar in a knee sock trick.   Just make sure to put a rubber band just below the Snickers or it tends to slide down into your boot resulting in a sticky  melted mess that squishes when you walk.

We had a scout earn one about four years ago.  As far as anyone at NCAC could tell,  he was the first in our huge council to ever recieve the award

Different lodges, different rules.  Some allow a tarp strung overhead if there is really heavy rain.  Some just tell you to bring an extra large ground sheet and fold it over youself tortilla style.  They may be assuming he will use the tarp as a top blanket to keep the rain off.

Some allow flashlights or headlamps, some don't. 

A few check everyone's pack for contraband, some inspect one in ten most just assume a scout is trustworthy,  and keep a,weathereye for Snickers bars and the like.

On my ordeal I was told to bring a tent.  Slept under the stars Friday night, in the tent on Saturday night.

I would say  Take the stakes and paracord.   The ordeal is really not so much the Order testing your son as it is him testing himself.

As to the communications snafu, if the time is short (less that 6 weeks) we email the parents so that schedules can be modified and the scout is still left in suspense untill the call out.

Oldscout

7 hours ago, David CO said:

Could you explain exactly which part of this event is absurd?  the overkill factor,   sort of like shooting a  small rabbit with an elephant gun

Are you suggesting that an eagle scout is above the rules?  I am suggesting that 99.99% of eagle scouts  are not about to use a knife of any size as an offensive weapon.  Should the rules apply to everyone except eagle scouts? Do you feel that small knives should be allowed on school grounds?   Yes !   I carried tiny swiss army knife almost every day for years.From seventh grade thru high school.   Never even thought of using it as a weapon, it was mostly used to trim fingernails If I  had wanted to harm/kill someone I could have done it faster using only hands and feet.   Do you think that we should have rules against knives on school grounds, but not enforce them?   As a society, we ignore arbitrary and capricious rules all the time.

Somebody did take responsibility for the outcome. The school board took responsibility and expelled the student. You may not like their decision, but the school board did take responsibility. They did make a decision.  Indeed,  they decided to screw up a young mans life rather than look as if they might be somehow linked to knife-violence in schools.   Its all about the optics right?   

 

18 minutes ago, shortridge said:

What do you mean by this, exactly?

Two-deep leadership is the rule that requires two adults at every activity.

unless it is a parent-  child relarionship

40 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Not for much longer. Boys can't do anything by themselves after October 1, 2018.

The adventurous boys will still carry on, they just won't tell the adults about it.  I suspect if they were handed a G2SS it would be used to start their next campfire.   it's hard to blame them.   I would have done the same.

3 hours ago, MattR said:

yes. I had 30 years between ordeal and brotherhood. I did brotherhood with my son. There were no records so they just had to believe me.

 

Now that  must have been a rare treat.  I had the chance to sit on a log seat and watch as 3 of my sons got their arrows.    Durned smoke must have got in my eyes every time,  had to keep wiping them 

The lodge had nothing for me either.  Ordeal '74, Brotherhood '75.    But  in 2000 I was welcomed with open arms and a cup of really strong coffee

.  @The Latin Scot  wadda ya mean " way back in '97"   Sheesh ,these young whippersnappers!  

Standing alone on the Tooth of Time for an hour, watching the sunrise.  

The critical thing is to keep them interested.

If you are teaching knife , saw and ax  then something i have been using for years is the " What if? " game. 

  For example I will start to whittle a stick with my left hand in front of the blade then freeze and ask the class "What if the knife slips?  Where will it go? "   Hopefully some bright lad will say "  Uhh  into your hand?"    "Good answer"(  I throw him a cookie here.    That gets everyone to pay attention.)  " So, what should I do in order to not stab myself?"    " Move your hand"    Move it where?    "Above the knife"  Good !  ( throw another cookie)

Start to chop with a hand ax while holding the piece of wood.  freeze  " What if I miss?"   "What if the ax slips out of my hand?"     "Which way will it fly?" 

Stand a log on a rock and start to split it.  "What if I go right through on the first swing?   What will the ax head hit? "     and that will...    and so it goes...

Note that I am not only  encouraging them to think, but also forcing them to be involved in the class. 

If you see a scout daydreaming then give him the next question.   Two scouts talking too much then give them a hard question.  

If it's first aid have a few " Scouts in action"  from Boys Life where scouts saved someones life by knowing first aid posted prominently.   I love the ketchup bottle trick!   If knots tell them why they will need to know it.   Square knot- first aid         bowline -  climbing, sailing       clovehitch-  lashing     

Try to make it a game, not a school like class.  Lord knows they have had enough of that by this time of year.

 Keep in mind  that to at least one  newbie  every week, you will be the  staffer he will always remembers as the cool older scout who actually cared about him,  encouraged him, and made him feel special.  

Let's see  now....400 scouts x $35 = $14,000     Call me cynical but I think I know why someone didn't like your program.

it's a pleasure to listen to people talk about a very charged and difficult subject like adults.   All too often such  issues tend to devolve into finger pointing,  yelling, and  ad hominem  attacks.   

Thank you Gentlemen

1 hour ago, David CO said:

There are many good reasons for home schooling, but home schooling in order to avoid learning how to socialize with one's peers is not one of them.

 

Alas that depends on what form the "socialism " takes.    I cannot speak for The Latin Scot but in my case  socialism took the form of months of shoving, tripping, stabbing with needles, theft or destruction of property and school work, and assorted punches and kicks.       I finally exploded and gave one of my chief  tormenters a concussion.   Which got me expelled from St Marys Catholic pretty quickly.

Keep the fire burning brothers

it's not hypothetical to me.

sounds like we have two different definitions of the word normal being bandied about.

16 minutes ago, Saltface said:

 

And round and around we go.

How would you respond to your girl Scouts BSA troop when they complain that competing against that broadly-shouldered, hairy troop of "girls" is unfair? Or when your SPL tells you some of the girls refuse to shower because of the leering looks they get, either real or imagined (yes, transgender women are more likely to be interested in women than cis-gender women)?

for example the Conn. highschool 100 meter for females was won by a male who ids as female.  Second place was also won by a male.  if i were the third place finisher,  the fastest female runner in the state  I suspect i would be pretty angry indeed.