Oldscout448

52 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Most are good

Will go with the most recent.  We were at summer camp last week, had 40+ scouts attending.  Thursday night after the afternoon offsite activities we cooked cobbler and the Boy Scouts organized up a cornhole tournament.  The leaders provided the stuff,  Boy Scouts mixed, and cooked.  It was getting dusk, the cobbler was getting close to complete.  I did a head count as the leaders stood off to one side.  All the scouts were there, no phones, just a group of Boy Scouts, in the woods, week coming to a close, enjoying the evening.

Ah, the smell of wood smoke and burning cobbler.  Nothing quite like it.

Different question.    hopefully an easier one.    where  will a trans ( female to male ) scout tent?   

with the girls patrol? then we are not treating her/him as a boy. 

  the boys? scary   

  alone?   ostracizing 

17 minutes ago, shortridge said:

 

Regardless of how they got here, they deserve to be treated with respect and support during their journey in Scouting. That does not mean you agree with any science or disagree with your faith’s precepts or whatever the case may be. It means you’re a good human.

Help me with this please,  are we saying that in order to be a good human one must set aside ones belief in science or religious precepts when ever  one dons a scout shirt?

9 minutes ago, shortridge said:

One really important point that I think we can all agree on. The prospective Cub who stands in front of us or calls us asking to join our pack is not “something.” He is a Scout. The girl who will be running the knot race at the district Camporee after next Feb. 1 is not “not normal.” She is a Scout. They just want to hang with their friends and go on adventures like everyone else.

Regardless of how they got here, they deserve to be treated with respect and support during their journey in Scouting. That does not mean you agree with any science or disagree with your faith’s precepts or whatever the case may be. It means you’re a good human.

Allow me to clarify something

The "something " to which I was referring was the Trans movement thing ( I dont know the PC name) , not  the scout in question.

15 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I mean this in the nicest way possible - but it does not matter to me what your personal beliefs are on this topic.  My point is that as Scouters we need to leave our personal feelings on this topic at home.

If a transgender kid shows up in your troop you need to accept him and support his involvement in Scouting.  The scout should never know that you disagree with the guidance of his family (and probably a healthy number of professionals) on his gender identity. Again - it's is not our place as Scouters to do discourage Scouts who are transgender.

I'm making this point because it would be wrong for me to leave the impression that it's okay for Scouters to be offensive to transgender Scouts.

Of course there is an exception is for units where the CO objects.  But - that's not what we're talking about here.

thank you.   I think we may just be arguing two different although related things here.

I am going to try to saw this with as few details as possible,    I sat on a trans scouts BoR   last a little while ago.   the question of gender identity  never came up,   National has deemed it a nonissue so insofar as passing a rank it shouldn't.     Nor should it be one when joining , if the CO is fine with it.   Do I think she is a he?   No.       How does that offend ?     

What does offend me is being told  that I must be affirming, supportive ,and even encouraging  towards something that i think ( not feel) has no basis in science , and if I am not then I have some sort of phobia.   To be fair you have not done so, nor has anyone else here.  

Ah, thank you for the 

49 minutes ago, shortridge said:

I’m not telling anyone they should do anything except act like a Scout. But if you believe the program and the membership standards are the equivalent of child abuse, then perhaps it’s not the right fit for you.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.    then we have no argument  on that score.   Apologies 

4 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

I'm not sure about the "height of arrogance," but as someone who was told that on a number of occasions in this forum over 13 years, because I did not believe the BSA should automatically exclude gay persons as leaders, I agree.  It is best not to say that to people - on either "side."

 Hmmm,  you have a  good point.  How about "   well up the slope"  instead of " the  height"

1 hour ago, shortridge said:

Barry, you’re confusing behavior and identity. Behavior is how you manifest choices. Identity is who you are at the core.

If any volunteer feels that calling a girl by the name she and her parents prefer is “child abuse,” then they don’t have to be a volunteer any more.

The topic aside here,  it seems the height of arrogance to tell anyone that unless they hold a certain viewpoint, they should resign

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Actually saying they have a condition is offensive. You don't pretend they are a boy - you accept that they are a boy

 

 If that case, I'm afraid they/you will have to get used to being offended.  It happens a lot in every ones life.   

Again,  I decline to join in this suddenly popular belief that  sexes magically  transform.    That XX =XY    They want to fly with that?   OK  It's a free country.   

  You want to identify as a cow and sleep in a barn?   Go for it.  Have fun.  But your DNA still reads as human.   again reality

I have not, do not and will not demand that others share my beliefs and viewpoints.   I expect the same courtesy in return.

Just now, NJCubScouter said:

Just out of curiosity, have you encountered gay and transgender Scouts?  I never have.  We apparently did have a gay Scout, but nobody knew that until after he had quit.

Both.   I treated them with the same respect as any one else.

15 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

As a den leader I think I came pretty close !

24 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

In Scouting - yes.  We're here to support kids - not judge them because of how they or their family define gender.

At home, at church, or other places no.  

There is this weird thing I try to hold on to, it's  called reality, and it is not dependent upon where I am be it a scout meeting, home or church.       " judge"?  where did that come into it?    I am not judging, I just don't agree.  These people have a condition ( I hope thats a non offensive term)  that I wish them all the luck in the word with, however they may wish to deal with it.   Just don't demand that I pretend that what is male is actually female or the other way around

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

It's not our place to decide that.  It's up to a Scout and the Scouts family.  This is a significantly more complex decision than anything Scouters need to be involved in.

Whether you or I think the kid is getting good advice at home or not, the kids need our support.  If they want to be treated as a boy, treat them as a boy and move on.

I am supposed to suspend my belief in basic biology and go along with someones totally subjective feelings about what gender they are?    

On 6/14/2018 at 1:18 PM, NJCubScouter said:

And the champagne that she was not legally permitted to drink at her wedding.

ah, but back in the dark ages the drinking age was 18 in Maryland

Come to think of it maybe that is why so many of us got married so young  😁

3 hours ago, ItsBrian said:

Great story. Just wondering, how long ago was 7 years later?

33 years

Have one in my district,  she could have an Eagle BoR by the end of '19

Since gender is now fluid, switching back and forth is just a matter of paperwork as far as BSA is concerned 

So if the father didn't see anything how does he know it was an AR that was fired?     Or is the term AR now used to mean any semi-auto?    

Assuming he can tell a 223 ( the most common AR caliber) by the sound,  80 rounds is about $100 worth of Wal-mart grade ammo.    Thats an expensive way to say I dont like you being here

firecrackers are a lot cheaper.

19 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

DON"T GO THERE!

I'll give you one situation that will throw you. Will the 20 year male ASM need to have a male ASM 21+ when he meets with the 21y.o. female ASM who is his fiance/wife? Yes, I saw that happen once. Couple met as Venturers, and followed Venturing YP when in Venturing environment. But both were registered with a troop as well.

In our case it was a 21 year old male and a just turned 20 year old female  in our Explorer post who got married.   We were still trying to figure out what the policy was when she had her 21st birthday.    

as one who received more than a little abuse both verbal and physical as a first year scout, I  view it as my obligation  registered or not.

David CO,  how about we focus on the scout right now.   

Well that's good.  A moderator shooting a junior member!  just think of all the paperwork !  Yikes

7 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I'll admit - I had the wind taken out of my sails when I realized why the new rules.

I'm still very optimistic that we can find a way to work with the new adult requirement.  Just because adults are there doesn't mean that patrols can't work.  Adults close by, but not part of the conersations - that kind of thing.

I truly wish I shared your optimism.   The best ( or worse) way I see right now is to just ignore the stupid rules.   But then would I be following the seventh point of the scout law?  No, could  I argue that I am following the second? Maybe.      I have no clear answer as of yet.

59 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

For many many troops the change you lament has been here for decades. The loss of patrol method adventure was replaced with a trailer and plop camping for a long time in most troops. The new g2ss sadly codifies it as the new normal for everyone.

I know.   It was a bit of a search to find one that did more than Webelos III.  for my sons to join, and that was 20 years ago.    I have been a gadfly to the "drop and plop" Scouters for years.  Most of them were unwilling to let scouts do much of anything out of their sight.  Heck, I had one SM who threatened to expel an entire patrol because they dared to have a patrol meeting at the local Pizza Hut.    But I could always quote the book at them.   Now....

34 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

And I am sure I am not alone with the difficulty today of trying to get the 18-20 year olds to understand they can't just go and "hang" with their buds from the troop who are still under 18.  Now we'll have the additional challenge that they can't go and hang with just another 18-20 year old present, they need to have the old timers there too.

if they are adults ( over 18)  I would think they can hang with another adult even if by the new regs. they are not allowed to supervise the under 18 crowd