nolesrule

OT: Well, it may have been renumbered as 4 retroactively, but it was still done before the second Star Wars movie was released (which was numbered 5).

All states have an intermediate driver license period between learning permit and full license (learning permit, intermediate and full license ages vary by state). In 15 states, that lasts until 18. Just about every state, including all 15 where the intermediate period lasts until age 18, there are restrictions against unsupervised nighttime driving (hours vary by state and standard or DST, day of the week, etc.) which apply to, at the very least, 16 year old drivers (some to 16.5, some to 17 and some to 17.5). In some cases, it is only a secondary violation, in others, a primary. In addition, many states have an age-based or license stage-based restriction of some type on passengers in the vehicle. EDIT: About 40 states have these passenger restrictions. Some restrictions are based on age limits on passengers, some only allow direct family members as passengers. In addition, the allowed passenger count can vary. Since almost every state has some kind of intermediate nighttime restriction and about 40 (of 50) states have sort of passenger restriction, I'd say that qualifies as "many".(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

OT: S-4 rocks. Tokala is the Adviser for the upcoming FourCorps 2010 section event (and was the 2009 Section Conference Adviser...now that was an awesome event). He's also going to be my Wood Badge SM next month. Wish I had time to get more involved in OA again, but 2 small children make it hard on my wife to give up too many weekends. That's one reason I'm a commissioner... doesn't require weekends. Back on topic.... I don't know much about the American Indian side of OA, but I do know from listening in at some of the seminars that at least our section strives to be as respectful as possible.

I'd say the BSA is very clear when it comes to shooting sports. And in addition to the liability issue mentioned earlier, the BSA could also choose to terminate memberships. But then you wouldn't have to worry about the BSA's shooting sports rules or advancement anymore.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

It's not in conflict. It means that in the cases of shooting sports and waterfront activities, the BSA has placed additional restrictions beyond just age appropriate guidelines and cultural norms. Here in Florida, it's "culturally normal" for people to go out on a boat with their families on the rivers, bays, Gulf or Atlantic. But the BSA doesn't allow that as a den or pack activity either. Certain activities can only be done at the Cub level at specified district/council events within specified conditions under the supervision of those who have specific certifications recognized by the BSA. "I'm with bear dad on this issue. With competant supervision... I almost think you would have a better shot at overturning any sanctions that BSA,Council, or distric doled out( if they decided to ) than a scout can overturn any advancement denial." You sure about that?(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

Only if it's smothered in whipped cream...Preferably homemade, and certainly not the vanilla-flavored hydrogenated oil in a tub.

There's been way too much recognition for things happening in 2010. The focus should be on the previous 100 years.

You are confusing the term "Webelos Scout", which is a 4th or 5th grade Cub Scout, and the requirements for the badges and recognitions. The total of 8 is for a Webelos Scout that will earn both the Webelos Badge (3) and Arrow of Light (5). The Compass emblem is a separate recogition, but can only be awarded after earning the Webelos badge (3 activity badges) and 4 more activity badges for a total of 7 activity badges. The compass point pins are earned after that (after having earned 11, 15 and 19 activity badges).(This message has been edited by nolesrule)(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

Well, I can't explain others, but the reason I wasn't active much the last 2 years of high school was because: 1) International Baccalaureate program in high school, which generally had 3-4 hours of homework a night and more on weekends (forget 2-3 AP classes, all of them were at least AP-equivalent and some were more advanced than AP...English, History, Calculus, Physics, Chemistry, Spanish). It was hard to make it to meetings with all that homework. 1a) If I had a ride or drove, the school was 30 minutes away. If I had to take the school bus, it was 85 minutes away. 2) vice president in my synagogue's high school age youth group... events often conflicted with weekend trips 3) the one year my unit did high adventure, I was on a 6-week trip to Israel 4)There were a few other things that kept me busy as well. Had nothing to do with the quality of the program. It had to do with the fact that I had multiple time-conflicting interests and the need for some occasional sleep. Advancement-wise I had everything for Eagle except the BOR done before my junior year of high school. Now, the key to retaining older youth is: 1)You have to have older youth already or it becomes cyclical. Venturing can help in that retention because of the instructional aspects of the recognitions. But you have to take advantage of the crossover. 2)you need quality program to keep them interested. If all you're doing is going camping to the same 9-11 places and same summer camp every year, you'll never keep them around.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

You'll need multiple uniform shirts for the jamboree anyway. So there's no reason not to have shirts for each troop. Use them for the jamboree troop (with all the correct jamboree troop insignia), and then convert them to troop shirts when he comes back.

Sometimes, but usually not the case, it's the scout that's self motivated. I zipped through Star and Life requirements while ASPL for a year. As for the merit badges, it was a combination of some fun easy ones and of course the merit badge mill summer camp... but even then I always chose what I wanted to take without any input from parents or pressure from parents. But as I said above, that's typically not the case. Too often, either the parents or prgoram are hyper-focused on advancement. Of course, once I hit Life, my focus changed, and I stayed Life right up to 3 months before my 18th birthday. Doesn't mean I wasn't active though.

I can't comment on more recent publications, but my 2005 Insignia Guide, which I've been meaning to replace, explicitly states that the Unit number is worn touching the council strip if the veteran unit bar is not worn.

I admire what uz2bnowl wants to accomplish in regards to helping the scout grow, but you can't artificially set the advancement bar higher because you aren't getting the results out of it that you want. As far as "Eagle material", until the BSA publishes an actual document stating somethingdifferent, it's still defined by the joining requirements and "checklists" on pages 432-443 of the Boy Scout Handbook (12th Edition). (Edited to put "checklists" in quotes.)(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

That concerns me as well, but since there seems to be a conscious choice to just gloss over that, then I can only infer that it is minor stuff.

Remember, Scouting isn't about leadership, though that is one of its methods. It's about Character, Citizenship and Fitness. For 2nd Class requirement #5, it says "Identify or show evidence of at least ten kinds of wild animals (birds, mammals, reptiles, fish, mollusks) found in your community." Would you refuse to sign off the requirement because a scout left off an animal that you felt should have been on his list? At least the Scout was doing his job as DC, making a good impression on the DL and the den, which hopefully will result in better recruiting and/or retention come crossover time for that den. How often do we hear complaints about do-nothing scouts holding PORs? John is right. Your option was (and for the next couple of weeks still is) to pull him from being a DC. Otherwise, he's completed the requirement. But at this point, you've given no reason and have showed no inclination to pull him for failure to perform his duties. So your options are either to support the scout going forward, or to fall on your sword over this. The bigger concern for me is the way he froze when you asked him questions about his time served. You said he got good reviews from his DL, so he was obviously doing his job. So why was he having trouble answering you? But like I said before, developing leadership isn't the same as forcing someone to be PL or SPL in order to earn Eagle. 1) They are elected positions, 2) they aren't the only positions allowed, 3) not everyone wants to hold those positions. Finally, is this something you are doing only with this scout? Or would you require PL/SPL time for all Eagle candidates? Doing it only for the one scout means setting different standards on the requirements for different scouts. Doing it for all your scouts is just plain adding to the requirements.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

The Scout Law issues, that your call. As for the POR issue, if after 20 more days he is still the den chief, he has met the requirement. (if you do pull him from DC, you're not doing the den any favors). Not everyone wants to be SPL or PL. Besides, that decision is really only in the hands of 1) the scouts that want to hold those positions and 2) the scouts in the troop/patrol who do the voting. Or maybe he'll change his mind down the road, but why hold him up now? Or do you think he's planning to quit after his Eagle Board of Review?(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

Doing your best and never making a poor decision are not synonymous. Otherwise, even the most minor of "boys will be boys" excuses would disqualify anyone.

The person who only does barely what he needs to get by still gets by. You ONLY earned 21 merit badges? You ONLY were active for 6 months since earning Life? You ONLY served in a POR for 6 months since turning Life? You were ONLY Historian/Scribe/Librarian and not a PL/ASPL/PL? Your project ONLY had X man hours? (not strictly a requirement but something we hear from advancement committees all the time for some reason) You ONLY provided 5/6 references to attest you live the Scout Oath & Law in your daily life? I said it before, advancement is but one of the methods. And when someone only does the "minimums" in advancement, it's a failure of the program to utilize the other methods. But that's what happens in our "teach to the test" mentality. But really, the only way you CAN'T meet requirement #2 is if you NEVER do anything that lives up to the Scout Oath an Law and as a result can't find anyone willing to be used as a reference.

The "it isn't in my contract so my boss can't make me do it" isn't really a valid analogy. If you want to compare it to the workplace environment, it's more akin to having a supervisor take a task that they are required under their contract to personally execute and push it onto one of their subordinates, who according to the office policy manual is expressly prohibited from executing that specific task. According to the ACP&P, once the scout has turned in the list of references, or beyond that delivered the DAC/CAC reference forms, it becomes the DAC/CAC's responsibility to follow through and ensure that the references are completed. I don't see a problem in the scout giving a friendly reminder to their references, especially if they see them regularly, but the DAC/CAC should not be holding the scout personally responsible for their references not following through, which appears to be what is happening in some councils. As for having the referneces into council by your 18th birthday, or no BOR, what a joke. Only the requirements (except the BOR itself) must be completed prior to the 18th birthday, and that only means turning in the list of references with contact information.

nm, misunderstood what you were trying to say.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

The CM and CC of a Cub Scout pack I serve as unit commissioner have been in their positions for about 3 years at a Methodist church. The CM is also the CC of that UMC's troop (my old troop from way back when). They are members of a different church that has their own units. When I was a scout, my first SM was Catholic, second SM (and later CC) was Catholic, my third SM (and later CC) was Jewish. All at the UMC troop. Chartering organizations do have the right to limit who their leadership is, but sometimes it's better to have a leader who wants to be there and understands the program than one who doesn't.

Can the Crossed Palms of an Honor Medal with Crossed Palms be worn on the square knot?

" I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for a 17.5-year-old who is just now getting around to serving in a POR. If there really are extinuating circumstances beyond the Scout's control, he could do a "Scoutmaster-approved leadership project" as provided for in the requirements. " That's not an option for Eagle.

Same with my 1989 Jamboree troop. I know it happened because it screwed up the registrar check when I applied for my first BSA Veteran status card. For some reason, they only found me registered with my troop starting in September 1989 (Jambo was August 1989), and initially didn't give me credit for the 3 years of registration prior to that date. That said, based on my results, it seems I was temporarily transferred out of my regular unit into the the temporary one, not registered to both at the same time.

Kabbalah isn't a written text, it's the philosophy of mysticism, Jewish-style. There are some texts at its foundation, including primarily the Zohar, which may or may not date back to the 2nd century.