NJCubScouter

Very good article, well-written and informative.

I agree with that. My question was about @The Latin Scot's statement that he was looking into forming an "LDS-minded unit" that follows "LDS values." I am not sure what values he has in mind. If it is things like The Golden Rule, help the poor, thou shalt not steal, etc., great, because those are Scouting values as well. If it is things like, the troop doesn't camp on Sunday so the members can fulfill their religious obligations according to LDS church, that's fine too, but it is usually up to the CO to impose something like that, and I don't know what CO would impose something like that o

That's right, and since neither the LDS Church nor any of its subdivisions will be CO for any BSA units, I can't see a situation where the CO would impose "LDS values." Well actually, I can see one, but to my understanding it is discouraged by the BSA. That is to have the CO be "Friends of Troop 123, Inc." If the majority of the directors or trustees of the corporation happen to be members of LDS, acting in their individual capacities and not as part of the church, then yes, I suppose they could say the unit will follow "LDS values." What's interesting is that the unit is not chartered to

What type of organization is the CO of the new unit? Isn't it the CO who decides what "values" the new unit follows (in addition to the values of Scouting, of course.)

The problem is that because a person can't really be a "Scouts BSA", they have "detached" the description of the member from the name of the program. A member of Cub Scouts is a Cub Scout. A member of Boy Scouts was a Boy Scout (though often just called a "Scout.") A member of Venturing is a Venturer. (Right?) A member of Sea Scouts is a Sea Scout. So now, a member of Scouts BSA is a... Scout. It breaks the pattern, but given the BSA's selection of a name, there really is no other choice. "Scouts BSA" really is not a proper name for a program, in my opinion, but that's what it is.

I wouldn't go that far. I don't think there is any difference in intent there. I don't think they previously meant you have to be 22. It is just a clearer way of saying the same thing.

Works for me. Of course, that isn't going to happen.

I don’t know.

My suggestion had been that the BSA consider using "Girl Guides", but people here had all kinds of reasons why that would be bad. I'm still not so sure, but it's moot at this point.

I think you can rest assured that the BSA's attorneys will bring up that decision in this case. Whether it has the effect on this case that you think it might have is another issue. I believe the legal situation is considerably more murky than Tahawk, for example, thinks it is. There are at least two factual scenarios involved here, one is that the BSA is using the word "Scout" without any qualifier as to "Boy" or "Girl", the second is that the GSUSA was able to find a number of examples of BSA councils using the phrase "Girl Scout" (or "girl Scout" or similar phrases) to recruit for BSA pr

We have one female DE (although I'm not sure they use that title anymore after they reorganized everything) and there was another one who left about 5-6 years ago, but I don't think our council has had any at a higher level than that. I suspect the percentage of female DE's and Field Directors is considerably higher than that of SE/CEO's.

But the BSA has won trademark infringement cases that only involved "Scout" (as opposed to "Boy Scout"), which implies that the courts must have found "Scout" is NOT generic. I do not know of any change in the last several years, or decades, that would produce a different result now that the BSA is on the other side of a lawsuit.

Hostility toward white people in this forum? I have never seen it. It has always been my assumption that the vast majority of members of this forum are "white." (I am using the broad definition of "white" here.) That is partly based on the fact that to my knowledge, ALL of the people who have chosen to have a photo of themselves as their avatar appear to be white. I am not sure that anyone has ever identified themselves as being other than "white," with the possible exception of The Latin Scot who has identified himself as Latino (which doesn't necessarily mean he isn't or is "white") and I

Black Hebrew Israelites (aka Black Hebrews, African Hebrew Israelites, and Hebrew Israelites) do not think they are Jews. They think they are descendants of the Hebrews and Israelites of the Bible. Some apparently believe that they are the ONLY descendants of the Biblical people, and that the Jews of today are not. Some of them are hate groups, some are not. Obviously this group that was involved in this incident is a hate group.

Interesting. I didn't know that. I wonder if the other "National" properties are owned that way as well.

And also did not "produce" nearly as many children in the first place, which I think is the largest factor in the membership decline in the BSA in the 70's and after.

Whether it can or not isn’t really the question, in my opinion. The question is, even if money is an ineffective remedy, what other remedy is there? None that I am aware of. (Well, therapy, but that’s far from a complete solution either... and it isn’t free, which brings us back to money.)

Merry Christmas to all who celebrate. (Which actually includes me even though I'm Jewish, because my wife is not. I'm not there for the religious elements, but the peace and joy and goodwill etc. stuff transcends religion.)

That's just speculation, and I don't think it's correct.

That was Baden-Powell's idea. There is a quotation from him to that effect, which I cannot find right now.

There are quotations from Baden-Powell that suggest that was his approach as well. He saw religion as important, but apparently did not see it as a bar to membership.

That makes sense. He was reciting words and explaining what they mean, rather than actually "taking a pledge."

Ok, good. I am pretty sure that is what the BSA's policy is. I also believe that BSA does not require the wearing of the flag patch by a Scout whose religious beliefs forbid it. Maybe his relative never noticed the flag patch. (Or maybe Jehovah's Witnesses are ok with wearing the flag patch, but I am pretty sure they aren't.)

(Ok, here I go anyway.) But who is to decide which values "reflect back to god"? You have made clear that in the teaching of your religion, homosexuality is immoral. And yet there are other Christians who do not believe that way. My son's wedding was officiated by an Episcopalian priest, a woman, who is married to another woman. The same division exists within my own religion. There are openly gay Reform rabbis and yet most Orthodox Jews regard homosexuality as a sin. (Predictably, the "middle" movement, Conservative Judaism, is itself deeply divided on the subject.) And every religiou

I agree. He was a person of his time. If he were alive today he would be a person of our time, and his opinions would not necessarily be the same.