Basementdweller

That is too much. While I appreciate the cost of such an event, scouting has lost touch with his base. For my Son and I to attend it would take most of my discretionary income. Not fair to the rest of the family. Sorry honey no vacation, goin to the jamboree. Not worth it in my book.

Thanks for the replies Fumble the oath, they just didn't know it. In thinking about the visit, it was lacking energy, enthusiasm. The Boys scouts were not in uniform, so I could not pick out a patrol or senior patrol leader by behavior of anyone. The complete lack of familiarity between the boys and the boys and Scout Master. What I mean by that is the general conversation/fun of having share a lot of mutual events. The teasing about burning dinner or falling in the lake or raccoons raiding a backpack. The camp discussion lacked the "remember last time......." or "I hated that last time....." or anything that resemble the scouts looking forward to the event. It lacked laughter. Chaos would have been a step up. That means the boys are enjoying themselves. What do you use as indicators of a quality boy scout troop? I would like to see a recognizable senior patrol leader and patrol leader, boys leading activity's.

Well, my saga continues. The Weeb Leader begged out of taking the Weeb 2's to visit the scout troop, well in a nut shell he didn't show up to the outing. On to the story, we get to the troops meeting place. They start their opening, the pledge and announcements, that was all. hmmm. So I asked him about the oath and law. He lined the boys back up and had them attempt both. Interestingly enough they didn't know it. Now there was a mix of ranks so these weren't new scouts. Actually the Weeb den knew it and were whispering among themselves about it. The meeting was so, so and the group really wasn't boy lead. Planning for an up coming camping trip, Boys were not even But I was astonished They didn't know the most basic thing in scouting. I was curious to see if they had any other scouting skills. Have you run into this much????? Maybe my expectations were too high?

So if I take my Den to a Basket Ball, Football, or any sporting event. It is then a violation of BSA Policy. Or if my den is also a baseball team they can't wear their uniforms. I doubt it. I think that bickering about rules is a Scout Adult specialty. The bickering and fighting takes place not only on this site but on every single scout website I have visited. Really sad. The people who are truly helpful have left years ago, leaving a group thumping the rule book and GSS2. Anyhow steve.....thanks for the info, I think it is a good idea and what scouting is about.

Baden, I understand Bob is in his own little world where everything is perfect, enough volunteers, enough caring parents, enough money, enough training, enough boys, enough rules, enough of "fill in the blank". His world is black and white, My world is gray scale. I am not denying that his points are valid. Some of us live in a less than perfect world and must make do. I am far from perfect, but I love scouting and the boys in my dens. I never felt taken advantage of or even the Martyr. I never said that, what I was commenting on was a person who abandoned the Pack and is being welcomed back.

It's not my job is a poor excuse. That is why programs fail IMHO, maybe this one needs to meet that fate. If your baseball analogy means we should have forfeited that particular game fine then. But it seems we don't have enough player to even to field a team. You are correct that I it is irrelevant if I like the first baseman or not. But if he is on the field I would EXPECT and TRUST him to do his job to the best of his ability after all he is there by his own choice. If he does not do his job, management should do theirs and remove him. I would expect that, just as if I was inadequately preforming my job, I would expect to be removed. Our Success as a team requires everyone to at least show up for the game, even if they don't feel like it. So Bob exactly what would have you done in that situation? Would a better solution been to get back in the car and go home? Would a better solution been to go into my class room with my den and shut the door? One possible result would have forced the CM to deal with it. Many others are less desirable. Bob your right who cares as long is my den is taken care of, It isn't my job to worry about the rest of the pack. (This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

Bob you are correct, It isn't my decision. But I don't have to like or even Live with it. Well I think I am done with this Pack. I had a chat with the CM and didn't like the answers I was getting. As eluded too earlier in the thread, his attitude was well we made it work. What do you mean we????? In the last year I have meet some fantastic people in scouting thru Pow Wow and Baloo and Owl training. Several have extended invitations to Transfer to their Pack. My son and I are visiting them starting the first week in January. I have already sent a couple of emails and have received a deluge in response. Nice to be around like minded people. Did I mention I had all of the dens last week I was the only den leader to show up. The CM and other ACM were socializing with the parents while I tried to salvage some sort of a meeting. It isn't supposed to be like this, I don't care what you say.

Unfair is not what I was thinking. There is no wealth or fame to be gained in scouting. Just a lot of work. I have no problem sharing the work with someone I can trust. For the record, she was grocery shopping while he was at the meeting and socializing at Starbucks(same plaza). Da wife saw her on two separate occasions. I asked if the CM heard from her regarding missing the first couple of meetings, he called and she said she was busy. Why bring her back as a den leader, why not Assistant Cub Master or Assistant Den Leader? Something were if she decides to take another sabbatical it won't affect the dens as much.

This evening I was informed that a den leader will be returning. The issue I have with her returning is she quit last year with out telling anyone. How is that you ask? We meet in separate meeting rooms on the same night at the CO. She just stopped coming, she even dropped her son off at the meeting. She never quit just stop coming, Very uncool in my book. I ended up with both dens. The Cub Master sees nothing wrong with her coming back. I am more than a little miffed hearing this, Especially with the way it all went down. No way I could trust her. I asked him in what capacity would she return. Cub Master said as a Den Leader. I couldn't believe my ears. The thing that ticked me off the most was the end of the year picnic, she showed up and posed with the den in her leader gear. Unbelievable. I understand I have absolutely no recourse to prevent this from happening again. But it is still BS.

Thanks for the responses. Rangemaster certainly warrants further investigation. In thinking about it further. If the men in women don't want me in their club thats fine. I will just do my own thing with our Pack. I am thinking a week trip to Gettysburg......

Well, as a fellow chauffeur of the Pack. I have ran into the situation of a couple parents taking advantage. It is not that dissimilar to the babysitting on day events, how many times are you stuck waiting for hours after the scheduled pick up time for parents. they show up and apologize profusely cause they misunderstood the pick up time or their phone was dead. of course they were ignoring my calls on the cell phone for the last hour. Cell phone was dead? Not this time, I called as they walked up only to hear the phone ring, OK you got me, with a sheepish grin. I agree with you that all family situations are not created equal. I would have treated the family with the Beauty parlor the same way. She is treating you as her babysitting service with pick up and drop off service. Pay bills and gifts and she is at the Beauty shop. Hmmmm. Let your moral compass guide you. IMHO your doin good.

Well in reading about disappointing camp experiences I began to wonder. What makes a great day camp experience? What events are the most fun/memorable? My son is a wolf and already has four summer camps under his belt. Two years of resident camp and two day camps. I am a little worried he will be bored with camp this summer. Lets face it all camps have the same basic activities, BB, Archery, Swimming, fishing and crafts. Sooooo, what other activities are a possibility?????? It dawned on me that the Day camp Director announced her retirement last summer and most of her staff will not be returning. I am not one of the "in crowd" in the district but I still would like to help. How does one do this?????? In that train of thought what kind of training does it take to become a range master? Is the training good for archery and BB? I assume it is NRA training, I would like to know exactly what class name I need to take. I covered a lot of ground but you guys got me thinking.

I miss a capital letter and your trying to short cut a path to Eagle. I investigated the merit badges and it is a significant investment in time that is for sure. It is more than just two hikes. So I understand the desire of "killing two birds with one stone". I will have my scouts start working these right after they cross over. Not to cast the first stone.

I think they are waiting for him to age out. The incident happened when he was 16 which was a year ago already. Then BG council said to wait one year to re apply. He will be beyond his 18 the year at that point. They are making sure he does not get his Eagle. It is interesting the variances in rule enforcement is interesting. I remember a thread about a boy pre and post eagle caught smoking weed on a camp out and a scoutmaster conference was it. Non-discipline IMHO. Then this case were the discipline is significantly harsher. I have to agree that there must be more to the story than we have heard.

10 miles is easy get up early one saturday morning and just go do it. Shouldn't take more than 4 hours. I can do 10 miles with the cubs in that period. No big deal in my book. I bet you have wasted more time worrying about it than you would just have done the hike. So what is the lesson in letting them skate on requirements?

I interpreted advertising as. a big sign on the side that says Bob's Trash service with a phone number or home depot or anyone who will give some predetermined amount of cash. Often one of the parents has a construction company and he donates his old trailer with his companys name on it. Seen that a few times in a neighboring district. Trailers are not that expensive......of course it depends on what your tastes are. On ebay you can get a brand new for under 2k.

I am opposed to ad space for several reasons. First problem I see is exactly what Bob said, endorsing a product or merchant. Second is who is gonna pull it and the repercussions of a less than courteous driver. Seen it happen heading into camp. Got blown by on the highway by a jerk leader pulling his troops trailer. I found the Scout master and discussed it with him and found he didn't pull it no truck. One of the Dad's did. Just food for thought. Just think about an upset motorist calling that business to complain about you. I really dislike the fact that the trailer is actually the charter orgs property. But thats life. Just get off your duff and sell candy bars like the rest of us.

Yep, the cubs need to camp. My wolf has almost as many nights camping as some of the boy scouts in the troop. We have 4 family campouts a year, council resident camp, district camp weekends and a father son camp out. he has about 18 days from may of this year. OUTSTANDING. We have a monthly hike program with mileage award patches and do many of the state and metro park events. We go creeking with the naturalist, plus a bunch of conservation projects. A busy scout is a happy scout, the only problem is as a wolf his brag vest is completely full. The cubs are the best recruiters. Let them tell their story.

How quaint, Going to camp where the cell phone towers are close and huts with electricity. I wonder if the lake is up to the correct temperature. What there is fish in the Lake OMG! Horses, what the?????? Are they crazy, horses are way too expensive for a council to maintain. A high tech equestrian facility?????? Some one is way out of touch. What an incredible waste of money. I think it is more a social problem than anything else. The girls must always be in contact with each other. I do not understand it. Texting Talking or just sucking up air time. Do they lack that much self confidence? Too much time in front of the electronic babysitter I suppose. Hannah Montana and High School Musical..... Naw. Besides most women don't want to go and camp, not outdoor types. The GSA is fairly anti male leader. Hire a marketing team to see what's wrong???? I have taken my daughter to several Girl Scout programs. They are horrible compared to BSA. My daughter isn't that turned on my GS'ing she prefers to be with the cubs. We camp, fish, shoot, visit places, I wish I could sign her up for cubs. A much better organization than GSA.

Well, welcome. Whom ever told you the primary purpose of the B&G is to cross over the weebs is incorrect, although that maybe the case for his/her pack. As you eluded to it is a birthday celebration for Scouting.........The event ranges from a sit down dinner with scouts acting as servers to a cookies and punch affair. There really is no rules. We like to have the majority of boys receive their rank advancement at the meal, which is giant subs and 4 foot accrossed pizzas for us. We have the dens put on a few songs and a couple of skits, Awards ceremony, The ever present Friends of scouting presentation and I put together a slide show of events thru out the year and it plays on the projector during the meal. We did a nice job decorating the room with blue and yellow table cloths and the boys made the center pieces and place mats. We had the wolves greet, the bears escort to their den tables and tigers, well be tigers and provide the entertainment. We usually have a cross over ceremony with a bridge and all. But definitely not the reason for the event. I know Packs that don't cross the boys over till June. There is no right or wrong answer, just the way that works for you.

Wellll, My troop made a replica cannon for the bicentennial. Our Mom's made minute man costumes and we pulled the cannon in parades for my entire scouting career. That cannon went on our shooting camp outs and yet we shot it at plywood targets. We used soda cans filled with cement and fiberglass insulation for wadding. It was cool. I had a big laugh when I read the GSS and saw that Artillery was a no, no. Hmmmm, I wonder if it was in response to my old troop. In no way does this help you, just a trip down memory lane.

Blake......some outstanding suggestions...... I will put my name on them and number them. I will never send them home again. Sad it had to come to it. Yes I wrote the boys names on tags attached to the stuff sack. Never thought anything about it. I spoke to a couple of the parents but not all about the bags.. My fault. I understand that this could/should possibly be a life lesson and if the boys didn't have it bad any way I probably would enforce it in such fashion. Outdoor committee chairman...oh I wish. This pack is run by about 6 adults. Again working poor area of town. lots of single parents and grandparents taking care of kids. Yes I am a softy

Beavah Thanks for spinning my Question. First off this has absolutely nothing to do with our troop or Pack. Our Pack and Troop is extremely poor. I have purchased a number of tents out of my own pockets and enough sleeping bags and pads for the boys who did not have. I never in my wildest dream would have believed that parents would sell their boys gear. The first camping trip I went on after joining the Pack...we did not have enough tents or room for all of the boys, most just had blankets off their beds to sleep with....Not bad at summer resident camp with a cot.....this was April, it was rainy and cold. Long story short, I gave up my tent and put 6 boys in it and swore that it would never happen again under my watch. I spent a very wet and cold night sleeping in my fold up chair. Plastic sheets never stay put. So, I purchased 6 tents that were factory seconds and we are using those. I also purchased 10 sleeping bags and I got some foam mats donated. The tents and mats never went home. The bags did, Lets face it I just can't store everything. Sooooo, if I get some more bags, other than laundering them, should I sanitize them in any other fashion?????? or is it best to "assign" one to each boy for his tenure with our group and then not worry so much about it. Eagle that is a terrible story, hopefully the CO gave the equipment to an other troop. Far as fundraisers go, been their and done that.....Remember these are cub and not boy scouts. Too be real honest the older brothers, sisters and parents, if you want to call them that, of the boys involved are real pieces of work. The boys involved are lucky to get clean cloths and an occasional hot meal. But they are really great kids.

No feedback on my sleeping bag question?

Do what you need to do provide a quality program and retain the boys... Then don't apologize if offend people. The area you describe needs scouting in the worst way. Camo second hand gear is the last thing you should worry about. Just curious, how would you handle sleeping bags????? We have a similar situation with boys who cannot afford them, I have purchased sleeping bags and given them to the boys only for them to not bring them to the next event or their parents/siblings selling them on craiglist. I saw the ad myself after a tip from another parent. a fifty dollar sleeping bag being sold for 10 bucks on craigslist. I was pretty ticked off about it. I called and told the parent about it, and their response was well you gave it to him and we really don't have anywhere to store it. We sold candy bars and the boys used their own bags and backpacks, same deal, some used them to haul books back and forth to school. I was considering purchasing them for each boy tagging them with their name for use during their tenure with our Pack and Troop. Then storing them myself. Is there anything else to consider?????????? At this point there isn't too many maybe 4 or 5 boys. I am just trying to ensure a quality outdoor experience, nothing worse than being cold while your trying to sleep. I have already purchased half a dozen large duffle bags so the boys can put their clothing in those instead of carrying trash bags with their gear in it. I get the bags back before we get back to the charter org.