BadenP

This issue seems to be one of the most passionate ones in scouting today. Both camps have their boots firmly dug in the ground and will not budge. So it then becomes are we truly in this for the boys, to give them a fun program or are we trying to create our own little armies of fully uniformed scouts/soldiers who do close order drilling just to impress other people. What kind of pack do you run?

eisley You can NOT add to any requirements pappadaddy What names the scout provides is solely up to him, a district EBOR can not demand anything more specific or different from what National has decided.

Boy scouts have survived a century now and if it continues to provide quality leaders who continue to put forward a quality outdoor program it will survive another century, in spite of the efforts of a few in irving who just don't seem to get it.

Remember that letters of recommendation are voluntary and NOT a requirement according to BSA policy.

Beav and SP Look you guys have been quoting quite a bit of unsubstantiated and basically false information on your long, too long ongoing diatribe. This thread was talking about the protestors and you guys have turned it into the Beavah and Seattle Pionneer opininated syllabus of political and economic policy of the USA. Neither of you are in power to effect any change, the name calling is getting irritating, as Lisabob pointed out, and your total monopolization of two threads is getting a little tiring. Let it go already, please!!!!

As a former IRS investigator I can tell you that unless you are talking tens of or hundreds of thousands of dollars the IRS is not going to bother you. The last thing the agency wants is to prosecute a boy scout troop. With recent federal budget cuts the IRS staffing has been cut way back and they need to concentrate on the big guys. If you are committing tax fraud with chicken dinners and popcorn sales you have to sell a heck of a lot of product before attracting any attention. Beav is right as far as seperate bank accounts for the boys. All your unit money should be kept in a unit account, and a ledger keeping track with the boys individual credits.

One thing to avoid are your district scouter know it alls who never tire of telling you what the rules and regs are based on their own interpretation. If it is not in an official BSA pub forget it.

Eng61 I think the point is we in scouting allowed the standards to become less dynamic because of program changes that came down from National. Those of us scoutmasters who continued to enforce the same high standards in our troops are for the most part out of the boy scout program and with the new generation of leaders many have limited to no prior experience in boy scouts, poor outdoor skills, and seem to prefer the classroom run troop program. Skeptic did an excellent job answering your other questions in his post. Yes, times have changed, instead of seeing scouts all over in uniform today they are much fewer in number and most of the time do not wear their uniforms. So I think the question becomes is Scouting still relevant to our youth or does it need to continue to undergo massive transformation as it is now just to survive? The further scouting gets away from its roots(outdoors) the greater the chance it will continue to lose membership at an alarming rate and diminish into just a small club type of organization.

SP This argument is becoming almost laughable, it is not the major that prevents someone getting a job, unless it is a very specific scientific research position. Look there are almost as many unemployed science majors in this country who can not get a position because those jobs have shrunk as well, with much of the research and development being done overseas with less regulations. I have friends who are geologists, marine and wildlife biologists,who have been out of work for over a year since their positions were cut back. The student loan program is indeed a problem, but again it is not the major but the schools who allow their students to get much more money than they should in the first place. A student going for a bachelors degree should not be allowed to accumulate a loan debt of over $100,000 yet that is what is happening all over the country. The system is broken and those administering it are mostly incompetent.

OGE It is not just the LDS but the myriad of conservative Christian churches, as well as the Catholic church. IMO the BSA should allow a local unit option since I do not believe that any religious institution should have a controlling influence on the scouting program.

Eng61 The really sad part is that the legacy and spirit those guys left behind has been lost forever by those desk jockeys at National. A sad reflection of the current times and scouting program.

LFL may be a seperate entity but it is part of the BSA and thats all the politicos need to hear.

perdi Public colleges are there to support the interests of their student body, supported by taxpayer dollars, not the wishes of the administration or any political agenda. If there are courses of study that are not supporting themselves then they can reduce the number. Practically speaking those who REALLY want to be in engineering or science schools like MIT, CalTech,etc have the expensive facilities already in place to meet their needs. The problem is that most wanting to go into those fields are not adequately prepared academically and their applications are denied. Too many teens go to college totally unprepared and in my state 40% of the freshman only last a year or less before they drop out. If Obamas hairbrain scheme of allowing foreign graduate students in the sciences to remain in the USA and become citizens goes through this will just compound the problem for US students even more. Universities with a good science/engineering program will be overtly recruiting foreign students in bidding wars against each other, since foreign tuition is over triple what a US citizen pays.

We survived because no one was telling us it couldn't be done. Unlike today our packs were not loaded with a myriad of electronic devices, unnecessary equipment, and medical supplies that would rival a hospital emergency room. We did not go on a trek being told about all the things to look out for, rather all the things we were going to see and do, and all the fun we were going to have.

Man some of you guys are "ancient", lol. Still those were simplier times and the last time we were the industrial superpower of the world. We actually made things in this country with American labor, we grew our own food, built our own cars and trucks, made our own steel and the rest of the world really wanted what we produced. Then the internet technology boom hit and we threw all our resources into it, now all the world has the same technology and doesn't need ours anymore and our economy is slipping into oblivion. Oh for the good old days!

SP In this last debt ceiling crisis the Tea Party showed its true colors as the obstructionist party. Their show boating for the press proved that they are a party without a cohesive vision, and their games almost put our country into serious economic jeopardy. The American people have witnessed them in action first hand and are already starting to distance themselves, even the Repubican main stream are no longer impressed with them.

The entire article was slanted, biased, and poorly researched to begin with. The interviewee IMO is not very intelligent to begin with, and this is really just his opinion which shows him not be very well educated himself. More right wing propaganda from a biased right wing publication.

I agree with Moosetracker that the Eagle workbook does little to help explain to an EBOR what a proper Eagle project is. It is the EBOR that determines a scouts readiness for Eagle and yet they have to make a determination with few, if any, guidelines to follow.

My favorite trek at Philmont was the pack horse trek where the animals carried most of the equipment and we were free to take in all the beautiful scenery and wildlife. IMO, Philmont is almost like visiting an alien world, it is truly a transformattional experience.

I think it should be left up to the women and not the men of the pack. Cubs is not the military nor should it ever be run that way. Sasha - You go girl!

Things like working as a team with a common vision could not be stressed enough, as well as the main goal of any committee is too make sure the kids and the leaders are geetting and providing the best program possible.

Been to Philmont twice myself and found it a very peaceful and tranquil experience. Every scout and scouter should get the opportunity to go at least once in their lives.

The problem with Eagle projects for years now, like the boy scout program, has been "dumbed down" so has the Eagle Project to make it much easier for a boy to do a simple good deed and have it qualify. It doesn't matter what the book says because many leaders just interpret it their own way. In addition too many EBOR's just seem to accept almost any mundane project as qualifying for Eagle.

Barry The truth is that both sides are dragging our country down into the great abyss of economic collapse and neither of them have any realistic solutions to prevent a potential second major recession from occuring next year. Liberals and Conservatives have miserably failed the American people with their inability to function as an elected group of legislators working for the common good and getting our country back on its feet before its too late. What is happening today within our government is nothing short of criminal, the fat cat corporations and megarich individuals are the ones truly calling the shots, not Congress or the POTUS. We are currently on the road to nowhere with anemic and unworkable proposals to jumpstart our economy. Companies are continuing to dramatically reduce their workforce, financial institutions continue to horde those stimulus funds that were supposed to have been loaned out, and you have Boehner and Obama fighting it out without regard of the American people. Maybe we ought to demand that Congress be laid off for a year with no pay or benefits and let them feel firsthand what many people in this country are feeling and what their inaction has caused.

Man it is so obvious to me that most of you guys haven't got a clue as to why we are in the economic crisis we are in. Most of your solutions will do little to nothing in solving this crisis. It is one thing to be proud of being a liberal or conservative but neither group is doing a dam* thing to improve the countries situation. So all you are really doing is comparing rhetoric from one do nothing group to the other donothing rhetoric. Then you wonder why people who have it really tough right now are taking to the streets to protest?? Time to wake up, smell the coffee, and get back in touch with reality. Several economists have publicly stated that in 2012 house foreclosures will go up by 20% or more, unemployment will rise and be somewhere between 10-12%, and several large corporations will go bankrupt and fold, and much more. All I can say is I sure hope they are wrong, but if they are right we will all be in breadlines together Conservatives and Liberals.(This message has been edited by BadenP)