BadenP

j good As a former DE for about 5 years all I can tell you is it is not worth selling your soul or compromise your own ideals just to become a DE. You will be putting in 60-70+ hour weeks and if you are already gettting red flags in the interview be cautious before you commit. I was able to go to the council and meet all the pro staff and some top volunteers from what were to be my districts before any interviews. As a result the interviews were just a formalityand I was given an offer the same day over dinner. There are some really good councils out there and many more not so great councils so choose wisely. If the fit is right you will get an offer.

I find myself in full agreement with dkurt's post, if we want to promote the OA among the scouts why not let them wear their sash outside of OA events. Lets face it in many councils the OA lodge is barely hanging on for dear life, yet the powers that be still want to keep a veil of secrecy over it. Do we want to recognize the OA as an Honor Society and really promote it or do we want to keep it as some sort of secret fraternal organization, I think too many adults in the OA prefer the latter.

Yeah, another fancy do-dad patch for an archaic skill that is not truly a language in the first place. Unless the entire world internet goes down it is nothing other than a nice piece of nostalgia. National's thought processes never cease to amaze me. Still I did earn the radio MB as a scout so maybe it is not all bad.

The reality is all those rules are there for ONE reason to protect the BSA's rear end. If a unit violates them then the lawsuits that follow fall on the CO and unit leaders only, since they were the ones in violation. The sad truth things like laser tag, river tubing, BB guns are all part of being a boy, the fact the BSA bans them does not change that fact. Our crew loves to go paintballing, river tubing, and laser tagging, never wearing their uniform shirts, and nothing has ever happened or will since they are all very responsible teens. Having rules just to have rules when they clearly do not have any common sense behind them is the problem when lawyers get involved and screw everything up.(Sorry Beav)(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Barry While much of what you say is true, IMO, National has become totally out of touch with scouting in the field. Even if you get a couple of "bad district volunteers" at least they know what is happening and what will and not work in your district, and it is fairly easy to replace them if necessary. With National you are stuck with those bozos for years and years and you get to watch them tear away at the scouting programs, unaccountable to anyone but the CSE. In reality all National truly cares about is the MONEY, FOS, etc.,followed in a distant second by numbers made up with weak thrown together units created by the DE, and ghost units and programs.

Now I see why CSE Mazzucca has decided this is a good time to retire. National has been left with some real problems, Made in China uniforms, the Megacouncil Debacle and now these ridiculous rules. Next we may find out that getting the Summit ready for 2013 Jambo has created a multi million dollar debt that will need to be paid off. Still why should I be surprised he did the same thing as SE in the council I served as a DE. The saddest part is there doesn't seem to be one person at National being considered for CSE that has a clue how to fix anything. Incompetence surrounded by the incompetent. Time to bring in an outsider with some common sense who can clean house at National.

GK Try a product called Bartenders Friend, it is a scrubbing powder that chefs use to clean metal pans, etc. I can tell you from personal experience it works great I use on all my metal products and it hasn't failed yet.

I think with the new one megacouncil per state proposal by National that it is becoming obvious that it really is the council and professional scouting that has become obsolete, and that the district will become even more important in the future.

dkurt I see you haven drunken the kool-aid and become a believer, more than likely those funds will go for some kind of SE's pet project disguised as some sort of legacy endeavor.

BDPT You really are a small pitiful little man. Throw your insults they don't bother me. In my council for the last 15+ years the Silver Beaver has always gone to one of the larger contributors to the council, without exception. My friends in other councils have expressed similiar concerns. I am glad this is not the case in some other councils. My council is almost totally money oriented with little regard to program or camps.

Yes, the traditional churches as a whole have lost substantial numbers as our society has become more and more secular. The other problem is that many church's do not really make an attempt to reach out to the younger generations and their needs and interests. The most popular churches seem to be these new mega sized ones with popular Christian music and dynamic preachers with services dedicated to a variety of different age groups. My own church which is nondemoninational Christian is still growing with a lot of younger families and children so we must be doing something right. We have a pack, troop, and crew, as well as the GSUSA, and a very active youth group all of which are very strong and continually growing. As the associate pastor and part of the crew leadership I am always listening to what the young people and older people are looking for in a church and we try to provide those things to them. The days of preaching with threats about eternal damnation and hellfire,and empty repetitive rituals are gone forever if you really want to attract people to your services. Too many of the more traditional churches have become little more than a temporary refuge for the very elderly and seem empty of life according to many of my fellow ministers. CO's who are churches are only as healthy as their congregations. If their numbers are shrinking more and more each year they will be less and less receptive to sponsoring scouting.

SP The only problem with your scenario is that in most councils the ones who get those last two awards at least are the ones who contributed the MOST money to the council that year. The person gets a tax writeoff why do you need to give them a uniform knot???? A small plaque or certificate should be all the recognition they really need. A uniform knot IMO is inappropriate because it was BOUGHT for writing a check, not earned for working with the youth.

Scouter The knots a scouter earns by performing tasks within scouting helping the youth are one thing, the knots given for throwing money at council are quite another. It really is a no brainer which should be on the uniform. Still the BSA says you can wear all knots on your uniform, so it comes down to are you proud of what you did to earn that knot or is it just a gimmee. In my own experience many of those scouters with rows and rows of knots on their uniforms and looking like little generals, more than half those knots were BOUGHT not EARNED. Be proud of what you do to help youth in the BSA and the recognition you get back in return. Beware of those recognitions received by only writing a check, and then wearing them on your uniform. Try explaining to a scout who asks you what some knots were for that he sees on your uniform and you know they were given to you for writing a check, what would you say? IMo it is rather a simple decision as to what and what does not belong on your uniform.

IMHO kids have it easier due in large part to the technology currently available, but then so do the rest of us. Remember in school/college having to do research for a paper and shuffling down to the library and piling through tons of books. Now all they have to do is pick up their I-phone and it all pops up in front of them in five seconds Have you been to a library lately? The one near me looks more like a computer lab with one small section of dusty books in the corner. So do we have it easier yep and it is called progress. Those of us 40,50 or older may not think the change is so great but it is here to stay. The downside of all of this has been a growing disinterest in the outdoors in our society, hiking, camping, kayaking, nature are all passe to this generation who would rather build robots, play computer games, talk on social network sites, etc. That is why the BSA membership and programs are in decline and why the BSA is adding all these science technology pieces to all the programs. The BSA is in a survialist mode which the kids might like but is a real departure from what scouting was and should be all about. That is why I am so thankful to my Venturing crew members and adults who still see and appreciate the real joys of the natural world. I hope that interest stays strong in the years to come otherwise, IMO, our world could be in even more serious trouble ecologically.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

SS Yeah I remember those days. Now a boy comes into a troop at 11yrs and has his Eagle and most of the merit badges by age 13. Where has the program gone wrong? My crew leaders referred a boy to me the other day, a 13yo Eagle with over 50 merit badges, who wanted to join our crew. I told him he needed to wait until he was 14 which he didn't like one bit. So I asked him what he enjoyed the most about his boy scout experience and he said to me "Nothing all I did was study, study, study. I hated camping so I went on the least camping trips possible, learning knots, outdoor cooking, and hiking I thought were a waste of my time." I just smiled at him and told him he should probably find another crew as we are an outdoor emphasis high adventure crew and he would be out of his comfort zone. Then I asked him why did he go for the Eagle if he hated scouting so much. His answer, "because it was so easy to do." What a sad commentary on todays boy scout program. As I see more and more 13yo Eagles I have to wonder what has happened to scouting and why.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Oak If it is not for special cicumstances then it was an error on the councils part, check on the National website for yourself.

As moosetracker said Lone Scouts are for kids living in isolated areas with no local units or for very special circumstances, it is NOT a local option for a parent to choose in lieu of a local troop. You can start a troop with five scouts in ANY council per National, get yourself enough adults for a committee and scout leaders, get them all trained and get ready for the fun to begin. Lone Scouts would not be very fulfilling for your boys or near as much fun as belonging to a troop. Good Luck!

Part of becoming an Eagle Scout is to show proven leadership skills and organizational skills. That is part of the problem here Fabs, you depended totally on what other people told you rather than making sure that you had all the requirements met as outlined in your eagle book/ scout handbook. I agree that it seems kind of petty on the EBOR's part to hold the Eagle hostage over a POR, but you knew better I think that a summer camp paid staff position is NOT a POR by any stretch of the imagination in spite of what your SM told you. The EBOR was just following the rules. That being said there should be some type of compromise that could be reached since, IMO, it is the responsibility of adult scouters to help the boys be successful in their scouting experience. Sometimes the power wielded by EBOR's seem to go to their heads and creates an adversarial situation. Fabs IMO there should be a way for you to appeal by using your own leadership skills, getting advice from your troop leaders and talking to the District Advancement Chair personally to show him/her just how serious you are about becoming an Eagle and then working out a doable solution. That is part of being an adult and taking responsibility for your actions. Good Luck and do not give up. Remember the old saying, where there is a will there is a way, now go and find that way Fabs.

Eagle Sounds like you are on the right path. Getting experienced Venturing speakers, especially youth speakers will keep the teens engaged in the meeting. Since this is a new crew take qwaszes advice and get your council's VOA involved. They will be a big help to you with preparation for the big night and as speakers, in addition they can help you with displays of Venturing activities for the event. Good Luck and much success, and stay positive.

Twocub A rational approach you say, more like the "National BSA Knucklehead Approach to Safe Scouting and Protecting National's Butt". Lets see National has "dumbed down" the boy scout programs and advancement, de-emphasized the outdoor program, forbidden certain fun activities that a scouting unit is allowed to do (laser tag,paintball, etc.), and now determining the appropriate age for using a wheelbarrow and tools. Those guys at National obviously do not have enough real work to do. Instead of developing a solid and effective advertising and promotion campaign they come up with this crap instead to justify their six and seven figure salaries. IMO, National has a lot to account for in their total mismanagement of the BSA, however there is no one they are accountable to so the incompetency continues on unchecked. Yeah Bob now is a good time for you to retire before the you know what finally hits the fan.

Maybe it is time to go back to the original concept of professional scouting, namely have a National headquarters only with no local councils or local pro scouters. All commisioners would receive training at National and act as National BSA reps in their own districts, eliminating paid professional local executives and councils. The reduction of all these expenses should more than fund National, and the position of Commisioner would gain much more prestige and respect and really mean something once again. As far as council camps, many councils are selling off their camps at an ever increasing rate just to meet their bills. Maybe National could run and maintain a series of megacamps all over the USA based on scouting numbers. IMO, council camps have become a huge financial drain and many are not being well maintained due to a lack of funds. Time to cut the cord. Besides there are plenty of county and state parks to take scouts for a real camping experience. With these new "MegaCouncils" National is proposing it is just a matter of time before this becomes a reality anyway. I just want to see a reduction in professional scouting executives on both the local and National levels and who do nothing more than ask for money.

infoscouter I stand corrected. I read your reference and it showed Bob does not really want to go but has no choice. It makes me wonder how long this mandatory age thing has been in effect, even though I see the rationale behind it. Well he had over 40 years and ended at the top what more could anyone ask for in their career.

info Sorry but you are mistaken there is no mandatory retirement age for the CSE. In the past the BSA has had CSE's past the age of 65 serving. Bob is stepping down because he hit 40 years in professional scouting which is more than enough timefor anyone. Besides he reached the highest position in professional scouting, he has nothing else to prove or accomplish in his career.

One point that no one has mentioned is that the teachers unions and school administrators would never allow it to happen.

Lets face facts, with the onslaught of electronic media and ebooks the day of paper books is rapidly approaching the end. You will never see an improvement with book durability since they are considered obsolete in todays world. Save your paper manuals as they will soon be collector items. As much as I hate electronic books the transition from paper is already well underway, now you will have to let your scouts bring their electronics on outings since that will be their new handbook. What will be their new excuses for not having their handbooks now? Oh the joys of technology.