BadenP

There is another fact no one has mentioned, Bob hinted at it though, UW takes 25 cents of every dollar for administrative costs. Your money will go a lot further if you contribute directly to your council or FOS campaigns. A friend who works for UW told me that even if you request your money to a specific organization if their UW quota has been reached they will allocate your contribution to another group. That is just plain poor business practice, if not illegal. I have cut all my ties to UW and contribute directly to FOS.

Bob First of all the quality of training programs in different councils can cause problems. You can put two people in the same class, with the exact same training materials and when they put the program in effect get two very different programs, why, because of the quality of the instructors and their delivery. I have sat in an all day training and felt that I had wasted the day. Teaching methods are as much an integral step as the content of the material being presented. Bob, even you will have to admit that sometimes quality training is lacking and these new leaders go out ill prepared

Merlyn, Why must you always be a voice for hate and anger. If you dislike the BSA so much why not find another website to spew your venom. Your posts are counter productive and so full of biased misinformation that they degrade all the threads in which you participate. I hope you realize very few, if any, in here think you have any credibility. I must say though your posts are always good for a laugh because they are so ridiculously extreme and illogical. Peace!

HMMMMMMMM, I wonder what Merlyn would say? I think this is much ado about nothing, it will help clarify the law to those school districts whose heads always seem buried underground. Our nation has politicized these nationally recognized youth organizations to the point that only the kids are suffering, while the adults squabble over ideology and theory. Allow access to Scouts, etc. then let the kids and parents decide who to join, not the administrators. Denying Boy Scouts access to schools just strikes me as anti-democracy in action.

Kristi, I agree with John,if it means that you would lose the boy then find a home for him, if the den leader is okay with it and will help him with his Bear. I am pretty sure there are no regs covering this situation, some in here might suggest going out and recruiting some Bear age boys. The most important thing is making sure the boy gets his Bear program, even if it is slightly modified. I am sure Bob will be happy to give you his take if he disagrees with John and I. Keep the light burning for your boys Kristi.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

This has been a nice thread of old camp memories mixed with the harsh economic conditions of scouting today. It is my hope we do not go down the same slippery slope as Scouts Canada is today. I have to wonder if any council really has the best interests of the scouts in mind anymore? Councils are being absorbed into mega councils and volunteers are mostly being ignored by Scout Execs. The problem seems to have gotten even worse since I served as a DE in a council that has gone under. I welcome your ideas about your council and its camp committment.

Sad to say the camp in the council where I was a DE was sold to pay off a massive council debt. That camp was in the council since 1928, and many generations of scouts and scouters had put their blood, sweat and tears into making it a beautiful camp, including myself. It was up in the mountains with a nice lake, you would fall asleep to the sounds of the bullfrogs singing their mating songs. The camp was full every summer and used the rest of the year for all kind of activities. A while back I went to see what had happened, the buyer had bulldozed the beautiful lodge and all the other building

Eamonn, Unless you have walked a mile in their shoes. Granted there are good and bad DEs, but it is not an easy profession, in spite of what one may think.

Great advice Bob. When I was a webelos leader, years ago, roundtables were invaluable as is the training, so go and get trained. I also obtained some old scout books from a used book store that were full of ideas, the kids loved trying things like in the "olden days", all of them were applicable to their badges, so have fun and don't be afraid to be creative and try new ideas.

Zippie, Here is an idea for you, try getting one of your older cubs to be a kind of peer mentor to your nephew. He could get him more involved in the activities with other cubs and give him a chance to forget about his parents for a while. I had a similiar problem in a pack years ago and an older Webelos, who was mature for his age, did wonders with a tempermental kid that even the den leaders wanted nothing to do with. Today, years later, that former problem child is currently working on his eagle and he is still good friends with that former Webelos. Just a thought, good luck.

F Scouter, I do not have the official BSA insignia manual even though it is in there, but if you have access to a Venturer Handbook look at page 89 under uniforms and insignia, "Exsisting insignia placement policies related to BSA uniforms shall apply to the green Venturing shirt." "Sea Scouts may choose nautical style uniforms using Sea Scouting insignia..." The insignia placement chart on the back cover also shows a place for pocket insignia, like an OA flap. So it looks like its allowed for the green Venture uniform but not the Sea Scout uniform. I also verified this with my DE today,

Choice of wardrobe is up to the DE, usually when in the office or doing calls on businesses or community groups the professional dress uniform, or a tie and coat is preferred. When attending district events, unit visits, or camp activities, etc., it is expected that the DE wear the field uniform, thats what we were told in DE training at National. It was my experience most SEs preferred it that way too. I loved to have any excuse to wear the field uniform instead of a coat and tie, but some DEs I worked with were embarassed to wear it in public and I would tell them they were in the wrong occu

OGE I hear where you are coming from but I need to tell you that in my crew the girls could care less about the guys who wear an OA flap on their uniform. They have their hands full just earning Venture advancement. Second, Eaglepacker is correct about the BSA regulations allowing it and I know how dear you hold doing things by the book so it is case closed. If any of my girls, over half my crew, really got upset about it we would discuss it, but at this point they feel its cool that the guys wear the flap. WWW

AS a former DE and Sr.DE who worked with three SEs I would like to add my two cents worth. Eamonn is correct when he says there must be specific charges, not liking his personality won't cut it. The SE is responsible for raising money and unit growth on a council wide basis, how he does it is not an issue if he is successful and his methods are legal. The SE rarely interfaces with the unit volunteers,depending on the size of the council, thats the DEs job. The SE goes to large and small companies, service groups, etc. to solcit financial support for the council. He will usually hand select peo

Hops and nldscout, I agree with you both, thanks for putting this issue in proper perspective. TP, like it or not Venture is and always will be part of the scouting program just like the old Explorer program.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

If you are talking about the forest green shirt, the answer is yes. That is your official BSA uniform and the same rules apply to it as it does to the boy scout shirt.

Venture Scout, I agree with you 100%, the BSA is already undergoing changes similiar to Canada, councils are folding or being absorbed for economic reasons, poor management etc. Priorities in many councils are no longer the boys or program. Many volunteers feel that their contributions and opinions are ignored by council who are selling camps and other assets because of mismanagement of funds, my former council for one. I for one would love to see National get more direct feedback from volunteers before they set policy, rather then rely on the watered down version they get from council. A

My feeling is that she knew she was going on Survivor and knew what kind of show it is and how it is played. The wearing of the scout uniform was not only totally inappropriate but her resulting conduct on the show was an embarrasement to scoutleaders everywhere. Lil did not exercise even basic common sense as to when to where the uniform, she used it as a gimic that backfired on her. Scouting Magazine is just as bad as the show, exploiting her to muster PR for the BSA, she is not the example I want my scouts to follow.

I agree with most of the posters here, in this instance the situation can be handled on the troop level, since it did not occur on scout property or was the alcohol given to them by adults, so the scout exec. does not have to get involved, unless you feel that would be of some benefit. Just make sure that there are serious consequences for their actions or the behavior may be repeated. Getting someone to talk to the whole group, like packsaddle suggested, is also a good idea. The G2SS are guidelines for leaders and not the Holy Grail, using common sense plays a big part too.

Merlyn, Usually I enjoy your verbal tilting at windmills, but I think in this case you have gone over the edge. I don't know what happened to you in your life that has turned you into such an angry man, especially against the BSA and God. I suggest you consider some serious counseling to help you get at the root of these anger issues. Your constant attacks at everyone in here sounds like a serious cry for help. Peace to you.

As a former OA Staff Advisor I would see many of the adults wear the OA sash on their belts. The reason was they had expanded in the waistline (gut) area and the sash did not fit around them anymore so they decided that this was a way to wear it, and it gave them a distinctive look on the belt. I told them it was not official policy and they should buy a bigger one to wear it properly. Well you can imagine the reaction I received, like I asked them to give up their firstborn, but most of them obliged. The funny thing was that shortly after the group had some leather belt pouches made which the

Eamonn, Not to quibble but if you read the article again I bet you will find it says "the average starting salary", all councils do not pay the same. Big city DE's start at a higher rate. Pay scales are on a regional and local level not a National one. If the writer did not say that then it is just not true or poor research and reporting I assure you. Any one of us in this forum who was a DE can tell you that, as can National. Thats why most DEs want to promote into large councils where the salaries are much better. Councils are becoming bigger of late as the smaller ones are being absorb

Eamonn, In small councils, such as where I worked, it is very common and required for DEs to have these extra assignments, professionally it makes them more promotable. Second that salary you quoted was an average, the guys in the big cities make much more and those of us in rural areas much less. I served two districts simultaneously, was OA & JLT Staff Advisor,and was Asst.and then Camp Director for two years. I had a great time, worked my arse off though. I received all kinds of praise and awards from my districts, OA and JLT staffs, and a special plaque of thanks, mounted in the ca

Well stated Overtrained. I too was a DE for some years. Besides what has been stated there are also council responsibilities such as Staff Advisor to the OA, JLT, Camping Committee, Training, etc. Another big part is meeting with and dealing with units having serious issues with leadership, abuse issues, legal issues, etc. that is beyond a Commisioners responsibility. There are always inner city youth programs to organize. And there was always my favorite, a den of cub scouts coming to the office for a tour, pep talk, and to learn more about scouting, answer questions, and giving the poor

Eamonn, a very good history of British Scouting, thanks , but can you tell me what the focus of this thread is? Who is out to destroy Scouting?