LovetoCamp

Dude, I read a column too... The war on terror: The world doesn't get it -- yet Larry Elder February 19, 2004 The conversation began harmlessly enough. Sunday morning, after breakfast, I walked out of the cafe and passed a gentleman sitting at an outdoor table. The man intently scribbled on a legal pad, engrossed in his subject. On the table among a stack of papers sat a book titled "Black History for Beginners." I smiled and said, "What do you want to know?" The gentleman, a Mexican living in America for two years, laughed heartily at the offer by this black man to help him out. "O.K.," he said. "When did blacks get the right to vote in America?" "Well," I said, "it depends on what you mean by the right to vote. In some Northeastern states, some blacks voted from the founding of the republic. If you mean all blacks, this did not occur -- at least legally -- until the 15th Amendment was ratified in 1870." So far, so good. The man, I soon learned, worked for a major news organization. "So," I said, "what do you think of the war in Iraq?" Before he responded, I told him I supported it, and that, in my opinion, nothing short of civilization stands in the balance. He frowned and called the "pre-emptive war" unjust, wrong and built on a foundation of lies. He said that Bush sold the war on the assumption that Saddam Hussein possessed WMD, and that the president connected the dictator to the events of 9/11. "Yes," I said, "Bush did indeed, as did the international intelligence community, assume Saddam Hussein possessed WMD. Weapons hunter David Kay called Iraq a more dangerous place than he originally thought and said that based on consensus of international pre-war intelligence, he does not see how Bush could have reached any other conclusion but that Saddam constituted a 'grave and gathering threat.' And Clinton's CIA director talked about a decade of ties between Iraq and al Qaeda." "No," he said. "Bush lied. Condoleezza Rice accused Saddam Hussein of involvement in 9/11. I know. I had a transcript." Furthermore, he said, America helped create Saddam Hussein by supporting his regime in the Iraq/Iran war, and Osama bin Laden worked for the CIA! "Worked for the CIA?" I said. "Yes, during the Afghanistan war with the Soviet Union, America sided with the mujahideen whom Osama bin Laden supported." "If you mean this country supported Iraq against Iran, a country that seized American hostages and shouted 'Death to the great Satan,' and we supported Afghanistan against the Soviets, primarily by giving them intelligence, point taken," I said. "If, by 'worked for the CIA,' you mean bin Laden possessed a CIA hall pass and drank coffee in the commissary, we part company. "Assume I accept everything you say," I continued, "that Bush misled America on WMD; the Bush administration falsely tied Saddam Hussein to 9/11; that Bush and his oil cronies helped create Osama bin Laden; what purpose does the Bush administration serve by going to war in Iraq?" "Two things," the man said. "First, oil. Second, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz ushered in the doctrine of 'pre-emptive war' to enable the United States to remake that part of the world in its own image." "How about something a little simpler?" I suggested. "We are at war with terror. Osama bin Laden told Muslims of their sacred duty to acquire WMD, including nuclear weapons, and use them against America and her interests. Also, we know Hussein used chemical weapons against his own people and admitted possession of anthrax." "What gives America the right to solely possess destructive arms, while denying the same right of other countries?" he asked. "Several countries," I said, "possess nuclear weapons -- including France, Great Britain, China, India, Pakistan and Russia, with other countries attempting to achieve the same. Intentions count. For years, Islamic extremists attacked America and our interests, launching a war this country failed to acknowledge, let alone fight. Libya recently acknowledged its possession of WMD, coming clean -- by its own admittance -- because of the American-led war in Iraq. The father of the Pakistan bomb, at the insistence of the head of Pakistan, went on nationwide television and told of his transfer of technology and WMD components to North Korea and Iran. A document seized by our government written by a terrorist in Iraq fretted about America's resolve to stay the course, feared the construction of a democracy in Iraq and urged outside terrorists to help the process. Can you at least acknowledge we now live in a safer world because of Bush's 'pre-emptive war'?" "No," he said. "We now have the entire international community hating America." I reminded him of a political cartoon drawn before America entered World War II. It depicted a solitary English soldier -- shaking his fist at a swarm of approaching aircraft -- quoting a resolute Prime Minister Winston Churchill, "Very well, alone." Oh, well, at least I enjoyed the breakfast.

OGE, If you do have a group of Venturers who would like to go to the World Jamboree, check with your state's American Legion. Here in The People's Republic of Illinois, the American Legion's Department of Illinois offers Scholarships for Jamboree, Summer Camp, and other events. There were some letters of recommendation to be gathered coupled with an essay or two would result in up to $600 towards a Jamboree.

As you were, They were Marine Helicopters, not Navy Helicopters. To anyone serving in the Marine Air Wing, my most humble apologies. I meant an inner-service jab, not an insult. FOG, you served as a Marine on a ship I take it?

I read somewhere, and it was after a long day at work and I bought the magazine, that while backpacking a person burns 7-8000 calories a day. Can you even eat enough to "not" lose weight while taking a leisurely stroll pounding a trail?

Who's going to make up participating in the rescue attempt in the desert in 1980? It was an Army Delta operation. A 20 year old Marine would have never left the ship. So, by participating he meant he was doing KP in the galley, serving the Navy Officers their ice cream and mocha lattes. So, I believe him when he says he's a 44 year old Troll.

Hops, backpacking would be a "Land Cruise".

IT'S THAT TIME AGAIN Time for Central Region's Odyssey! The Fourth Annual Odyssey takes place on April 23-25 at Camp Naish. Any youth 14 years old and older or youth group (not just Venturers) are invited to attend. Activities include...Rappelling/Climbing, Project COPE, shotting ranges, trap shoot, a Saturday evening party with a live DJ, first aid classes, program planning classes, land navigation programs, a midway full of experts in various skills who can help build your program, and MUCH more. Want more information? request a registration packet, send your name, address, and phone number to odyssey@kc.rr.com or go to: http://hoac-bsa.org/ACT_Venturing_Odyssey.cfm and download a copy

Mr. Hopper, I just spit cold coffee all over my desk!!!

Mr. Hopper, I just spit cold coffee all over my desk!!!

Hey Old Fat Guy, You would've lost some serious weight on that campout. We might be onto something here. Forget Adkins. First, you run through the woods for half an hour chasing your food, kill it, clean it and roast it. That coupled with some bluegill chowder that you catch and clean yourself ought to see you Old Fat Guys back down to your High School Wrestling weights. The NEW Trail Pounder Diet Revolution, look for it on Amazon.

ftp://ftp.seascout.org/pub/Sounds/Boatswain_calls/AllHands.wav

Just stop. Don't go away mad, just go away!

Dog & NJ, I remember that they had another "Survival Campout" the year after, but I was playing football and didn't go again. The boys that did go talked about it for months. I don't know if the program lasted very long, but I still remember things from that weekend. Especially that three bluegils a meal does not make!!! Back to the chickens. Yes, your fears were realized. There were several birds who didn't die as quick a death as they should have. But we also had instructions from the staffers to let the teams do their own killing and cooking. If we had a real emergency the staffers were within hearing distance. It wouldn't have been the same experience if we were sent out into the forest looking for a red bucket with Colonel Sanders staring at us.

NJ, Not at all. There was 15-20 teams of 2. I was probably 14 at the time. That would have been the year of the bicentennial, 1976 when we had "Survival Campout". Saturday morning they had a shakedown inspection of survival kits and issued everyone a bag of gorp. Then we were to hike out to the back 40 and set up a shelter and stay at least 50 yards away from the other teams. We built our shelter, fished for bluegills, and then at around 3:00 pm they released the chickens. My mom owned a little restaraunt. I knew how to clean one. My Great- Grandma gave me the short course in neck wringing. Now, if I was planning on doing an advanced course in survival cooking, we're going to figure out how to make Survival BBQ Sauce for that bird!!!

Big Dog, 25 Years ago we had a "Survival Weekend" out on the back 40 of the Scout Reservation. We each had a buddy and survival kit. Saturday night they let out 25 chickens and bedlam ensued. We had to catch the bird first and then figure out how to do the rest. My buddy and I had well done roasted chicken on a spit. Others never did catch the bird and others caught it and then couldn't kill it. Guess they didn't get hungry enough. That was a fun weekend, for those of us who ate well. Not so fun for the others. We'll have to get that in the planner.

Ahoy Matua! Good luck with your new unit. I'm in the middle of changing the Venturing Crew into a Ship. It's working fairly smooth, but never fast enough for me. I'd love to bounce ideas back and forth with you. Wave Pounder

It's great to see that the Library's open on this fine President's Day. Does the library let you use the internet and the computer all day for free? I hope you're not hogging the computer and not letting some taxpayer's kid practice Disney's Phonics Quest.

Dude, why not read all those books after work? Then you could be smart and not be homeless.

My eyes crossed right before they glazed over, I was barely able to reach the back button and weakly made my way back to the relative safety and calm of the forums at backpacker.com.

The crew has nicknamed our ship's first mate as "chainsaw" for snoring like you've never heard before. Equipment I never go on a trip without - EARPLUGS!!!

I'll second that. What a super service organization the American Legion is. I'm proud that they are our chartered organization and am also proud to be a member of both organizations. Veterans continuing to serve.

http://sageventure.com/venturing/index.htm The above gentleman once spoke about designing a Corps of Discovery pocket flap. He needed a commitment for 200 of them to be purchased from his web site before he would go forward. http://www.nwsc.org/venturing/ would be where I would start regarding the program. For example: A Lewis & Clark Pilgrimage every year for Corps of Discovery members. Gotta start somewhere. I nominate Outdoor Thinker for National Corps of Discovery President. Seconds?

OT, All great movements have to start somewhere. They just need the right Venturer to be in the right place at the right time. I think the Corps of Discovery idea was started up in the North West Suburban Council (Chicago). Let me see if I can find a starting place. I thought we were going to have a Winter Storm yesterday, making it impossible for me to come to work. Well it didn't happen, but I finished everything on my To Do list yesterday, so...let me find some places to start.

If Craig Murray is reading, I will commit to purchasing 20 Corps of Discovery pocket flaps if he designs a Lewis and Clark Themed flap and puts it on his web sight.

You mean why is the only rancher in Canada that has never owned a firearm here? The rancher who owns two businesses but hangs out in coffeehouses before work??? The Ontario Rancher and business owner who is a "firm liberal supporter"???? I want to know how many ranchers anywhere are liberal? None. This cat's just a BS artist. My Ka-Ka Meter was redlining long ago. Activistamongus. This time he stays ignored.