LongHaul

IMO Trevorum said it perfectly Lying is always wrong. Lying is defined as To present false information with the intention of deceiving. Wrong is defined as Not in conformity with fact or truth; incorrect or erroneous. So by definition Lying is always wrong. We lie to the Nazis, we spare our loved ones the harsh truths, we lie when telling the truth will do more damage than the lie but we can not loose sight of the fact that it is still a lie. When we strip away all the transient things in our lives, social or economic position, family, people die after all, houses, cars, even our names

AvidSM, What do you do with your PLs after they have fulfilled their POR req.? If they can't do the "scouty" stuff what use are they to their patrol? How do they carry out the plan of the new PL if they cant do the scouty stuff. How can they lead patrol members that can't do the "scouty" stuff? They can't teach(properly),can't do (effectively), how can they lead except where the patrol really doesn't need them. If the patrol can do it all with out the PL's hands on help then all the Pl is is a messenger. He can assign tasks to those who can do them, he can delegate authority to those wh

What gives me pause is that all the candidates are jurists! A very good friend of mine is a lawyer, when you ask him what some passage says he will often joke "What do you want it to say?" He says that his job is to make the law say what ever the client wants it to say. As we have seen in the discussion on the 2nd amendment, the Supreme Court has failed to interperate the law as written and then apply that finding. The court has gone into the diliberation with a decision already made and sought justification through their interpretation of the Constitution. What we need are honest candida

I've been trying to find a second reference to a BSA definition of Winter/Cold Weather camping. I know it's in the Okpik book #34040 but couldn't find another "quote" as back up. BSA defines Cold weather camping as "camping in weather where the average daily temperature is below 50 degrees Fahrenheit and conditions are cold, wet, or windy." It has nothing to do with Calendars or Latitudes.

The guideline (as opposed to a bold type rule) advising that Webelos should not camp at Camporees was not (according to the information I was able to find when the guideline was first changed) a safety issue, National didnt want Webelos competing with Boy Scouts at Camporee events. The guideline about age appropriate activities concerning Webelos not participating in Winter Camping is a safety concern. Call it a Klondike or a Troop event if its Winter Camping, National feels there could be a safety concern. It all comes down to insurance, will your accident /liability insurance cover clai

Hunt, Look at Region 7 Voyageurs proposal, we started talking about a no adult trip from the camping thread, R7Vs plan allows adults but places all the responsibility on the youth in charge. I know this as white line camping you draw a white line down the center of the campsite and the adults are on one side and the boys on the other, no fraternizing across lines. The new req. could take it a step further and limit the adults (if they are even needed) to two and only allowed to intervene in emergency situations. Being and Eagle req. this would make it more common in troops and therefor

Packsaddle, The licensing I was referring to was license to own not licenses to use in public. If you intend to hunt with this firearm then yes I would be in favor of mandatory safety class requirements. If the state didnt already require such testing the argument would be that the firearm was going to by used in a public place and there is a reasonable concern that without safety training the public could be at risk. This is not the same as ownership. I can own a motor vehicle without having a valid operators license, I cant get plates or city sticker without a valid operators license

I really like the concept presented here. Region 7 Voyageur presents a very good approach. I would definately be onboard any effort to present this to National. My worry is that National will reword things like they did with Personal Management when many of us wanted Req. 2 reworded to stipulate that record keeping begin after the counselor had approved the budget. A change was indeed made now it clearly states "When complete, present the results to your Merit Badge Counselor." Not what was hoped for.

GernBlansten, I don't know if I read your last post correctly or not but if your intent is to obtain a tour permit for a Troop Campout and use it to cover a Patrol Campout I would advise against it. Make it clear on the tour permit that this is a patrol outing and no adult supervision will be accompanying. Your Council should not have a problem with this as it is a bonifide activity referenced in the Scoutmasters handbook,& GTSS. LongHaul

Hunt, Is there a state that right now requires safety training as a condition for gun ownership? Licensing yes but safety training? Why do we have to win an argument to keep what we have? Shouldnt the opposition have to win the argument to justify taking these freedoms away? Im not asking what can be done Im talking about what seems fair. As for the GPS in cell phones being an FCC thing and not a Patriot Act thing read the laws carefully and you will find that the FCC got its right to impose that restriction on the general public without review or further permission of Congre

I too was born and raised in Chicago. We (the members of my neighborhood) used to hunt rabbit in the prairie during the winter with 22 cal rifles. We younger kids hunted in packs using golf clubs. You could order a gun through the mail from the back of the Boy Scout Handbook. Sex offenders and child molesters didnt fair to well in prison, I could walk to and from school with out worry, and if I did something wrong the nearest Mom that saw it would be free to whop you as she saw fit. You always hoped (had lots of experience with this) that she got it out of her system and didnt call your Mom cu

John-in-KC, Thank you John, I did indeed want the long version. The concern I had with your original post was the line First, I never tell a Scout he's failed his BOR. . I wondered why you would, Ill say shield, a boy from this decision. I guess it was the word never that I focused on. Something I saw in your second post, While I believe in individual responsibility, the LEADER is responsible for all which happens or fails to happen. Took me back to my beginnings as a Scoutmaster. My philosophy was If it went right it is because the people I delegated tasks to did their job, if

Hunt, I think some of the misunderstandings we are having are my doing. One of the first things I was taught about discussions of this type is that one must first define terms. I failed to do that and now we are going around over what is a right and what is not. Especially in light of the fact that we are talking about Constitutional guarantees and liberties these terms need clarification. You are looking at rights as being things specifically granted by the written law. I am looking at rights as being those things the founding fathers said we were born with but that were not granted t

John-in-KC, Is it really that.Im stuck for the right word here, do I use bad, traumatic, unproductive, discouraging? Why are so many leaders troubled by telling a youth they failed at something? It happens in our school systems with the pass/fail concept. No grades making one student better than the next. I see it on Troop committees when they approve (A whole nuther problem) a PLCs proposed yearly calendar. We dont want they boys to get in over their heads and fail. Leaders will jump in and do it for them rather than sit back and watch a project just fall apart, then use it as a learn

AggieScouter, This is how the age with relation to recruiting was explained to me. In order to be covered by insurance the youth must be able to join if they wanted to at the time of the activity in question. Specifically boys who have been graduated from Kindergarten but are not yet in first grade are not covered while being recruited for Tiger Scouts, because you must be in first grade to join. Boys who don't have the AOL, are not 11 years old or have not graduated 5th. grade are not covered while being recruited to join unless they are registered Cub Scouts in a Webelos den. Being re

Clarification Where it says "Take 'Squiggly Man's' right arm and put it over his left shoulder " it should say "Take 'Squiggly Man's' right arm and bring it under his chin and then over his left shoulder." Learned this from my son after he was on staff at our Summer camp. It's easy to remember and fun for the boys when you teach it. LongHaul

Eamonn, In tying the crown knot try this. Hold the unwrapped rope so that the center strand is to the back of the rope as you are looking at it. Take the center rope and fold it over toward you so that a loop about of an inch in diameter is created. Looking at the rope now you should see Squiggly Man. His arms are wavy because of the previous coil of the rope. Take Squiggly mans right arm and put it over his left shoulder. Now take his left arm and shove it right through his head and out the other side. Gently tighten the knot down tight. Color coding the three strands is a great idea

We have recently had this issue come up in Chicago Area Council where many of the CORs are trying to retake control from the current Executive Committee. National has told us that the CO appoints a COR and that person is the COR for all units that CO charters. Our CO charters five units so we were trying to get 5 votes at the confirmation meeting. I bet that your council wouldn't care or notice unless it came to conflict like we are having in CAC. If having a different COR for each unit makes things easier or provideds a better program for the youth do it that way and let your council tell y

Rooster7, Clarify a few things for me. You say you dont consider insurgents as being innocent. Insurgent being anyone who is fighting against the government in their own country. Which would have made ALL the rebels we supported in Afghanistan when we trying to free them from the Russians, insurgents. Which would mean the Russians would have been perfectly justified, by your standards, to torture any and all of these people. I wonder if you would have been on the Russians side were we now discussing them torturing Afgan insurgents. The current Iraqi insurgents are fighting against a governm

Hunt, I dont know what distinction your looking for, I was using autos as an example. Raising the minimum for liability insurance wouldnt have any effect on uninsured drivers. You want to raise the requirements for those who follow the law because of things those who break the law do. Yes this is about freedoms and rights. I am not trying to convince you to allow me to do anything I cant do today, its you (collectively not Hunt personally) that are trying to convince me that everyone would be better off if I agreed to give up a freedom I now have. I am now free to own a gun with out ha

Prairie_Scouter My reasoning is this; The issue isnt gun safety it is gun control. The gun safety angle comes into play trying to establish gun control. To me gun control is all in the X ring, we are discussing rights restrictions not control. Allowing every Tom, Dick and Harry to go free before we execute one innocent person carries through to all aspects of freedom. This is about governmental control and how said government implements that control. I have harmed no one, leave me alone. Seek restraints on the ones doing harm. If Tom Dick or Harry misuse a firearm bust them, leave me alo

Praire_Scouter why are you so focused on curtailing my right or freedom with respect to fire arms instead of those that misuse them? Many states have a law requiring liability issuance for auto mobiles. Requiring those with insurance to have their policy number tattooed on their forehead will not solve the uninsured motorist problem. Making me pass a test to drive a car does not stop unlicensed drivers. It does not stop misuse of automobiles. Why would putting more restrictions on gun owners impact gun misuse? The problem does not lie with the gun or the gun owner it lies with the judicial sys

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. Benjamin Franklin Telling me that I must relinquish a freedom I now posses, whether I choose to avail myself of it or not, so that those who choose to misuse that freedom may be hindered is unacceptable. Enforce the laws already on the books. Make misuse of a firearm so unprofitable those that would do it wont, at least not twice. The city I live in has a ban on hand guns of all forms. So QED only criminals have guns here. We still have break-ins, we still have abductions, we still

I just finished posting a reply to another thread in which I said that I felt we shouldnt allow semantics, wording, or punctuation interfere with delivering the Scouting Program. Now Im about to get back into something Ive struggled with since I first became a Merit Badge Counselor in 1970. Can a boy begin working on a merit badge BOFORE he meets (talks to) an approved merit badge counselor for that badge? We all have our personal positions but what is the BW (no offense intended Bob) answer to this question? Ive called, written , emailed (first two back in the 70s the latter just recently) Na

Here I agree with FScouter. When a boy comes to me to have to me and asks to have his Tenderfoot req. 2 (...sleep in a tent you helped pitch) and says "I picked the site and pitched the tent myself so will you sign off Second Class req. 2b.?" (...select your patrol site and sleep in a tent that you pitched) I say NO. Some will say you can't use the same "action" to qualify for two separate requirements but say a boy come to you and says "I just earned Swimming Merit Badge, will you sign off my First Class swimming requirements?" Do we make him do them again? Do the five activities used for Sec