LongHaul

I'm not going to say that Cubmaster Randy is wrong but as I understand it the Webelos Knot can be worn by Boy Scouts. The AOL patch and the knot mean the same thing just as the Eagle badge and the knot do. Once a boy becomes a Boy Scout replacing his original AOL award is difficult,at least in our council, because and advancement report is needed and only one badge is sold per boy. The knot is used when the AOL patch is not available. After the age of 18 the AOL patch can only be worn by Eagle Scouts who are entitled to wear thier youth rank patch and thus can wear their AOl patch under it

I would also like to know where this kind of Scouting HIstory can be found. I know Chicago's number is 118 and thought it was one of the oldest. I don't recall ever hearing that we merged with anyone. We did change our name at one point from Chicago Council to Chicago Area Council to reflect that we covered more than just the city proper. I do know that our Camp Owasippe was formed in 1911 by the Chicago Boy Scouts. I don't however dispute the title of oldest council, I think Trevorum and Miki101 should be givin a "Class A" salute. Remebering where we came from helps us retain who we are

Jschlich, I too have no expectations that a new Board of Directors will succeed in rescinding the sale agreement. My hope is that we will prevail on January 14th and a new Board will be faced with a united community opposed to the sale made up of people local to the camp and those registered CAC members here in Chicago who know the value of retaining our last piece Nature. So as not to seem duplicitous I must state that you are far more concerned with the residents of Blue Lake Township et.al. that I am. The impact of the re zoning and sale to the local community will be nothing les

Just came across this link thought Id share. Its viewable in Quicktime. After viewing it I have to wonder if the people who put it together ever actually served as front line leaders. It does not seem to answer the questions and concerns we see here in the forums, in some cases it raises more questions. http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/videos/advancement/index.html LongHaul

OGE, In respose to your "what would happen then" question we won't get to that point in two years if we win this fight. First, the assests at our Camps have been managed poorly for years. CAC owned two plots of land, one forty miles west of Chicago and another in White Hall Michigan. The local camp (Hoover) has been sold for around 18 million dollars, the Michigan camp, Owasippe Scout Reservation hosts five scout camps and a family camp. When those who camped there in the 60's returned with our sons and scouts in the late 80's we saw the problems and moved to correct them. Use of

Jschlich, Sir, I didnt respond to your first post because we are on the same side. Your work and that of the OOEC is much appreciated by us rank and file volunteers. I feel I must respond now because you keep claiming that the fight with the board and the fight to retain Owasippe are totally seperate. While the sale of Owasippe is not the reason for the law suit brought against the Board, it (the sale) is a result of the refusal of that Board to act in good faith with the CORs and youth it is supposed to represent. The OOEC (Owasippe Outdoor Education Center) was not even form

Ed, What you or I may see as constituting hazing may not be what the next person sees as hazing. Here is another fine example of an ambiguous policy National wants us to follow but refuses to clearly define or explain. When I was a scout we would engage in Snipe hunts at summer camp. This was a traditional practice, completely voluntary on the part of each participant and no one was made to feel foolish. Today it is considered hazing because younger and nave scouts are the brunt of the activity. We all know about Campsite levels, Tent Stretchers, 50 feet of Shore Line, Smoke b

Holaka, A Scoutmaster's Conference can be done at any point, though it is normally done after all the other requirements have been met. The BOR, on the other hand, is the last step in the advancement cycle before recognition. The boy must have completed all of the requirements before he can be reviewed on them. LongHaul

Lynda J, CAREFULL with that word "donate"!!! If a parent donates equiptment it becomes property of the Pack and thereby the CO, been down this road! If the parent allowes the Pack to use personal property then the parent is liable for anything that happens related to the use of that property. This is all legal stuff but that is in fact what this thread is about. Setting up a 501(?) is really the only way to cover all the bases relating to property rights and liability. LongHaul

Welcome Rising Smoke, When I took Woodbadge our trainer told our group that we could not use fire by friction in our area (Chicago) because we didnt have the right kind of trees to make the receiver block. I told him that I was sure glad I didnt know that thirty years ago when we used to do it every time we came to camp as a means of awing the new scouts. We used to have a Stalking Merit Badge and the field book taught trapping, snares, and how to dress game for the table. I wanted to teach my scouts some of this but was cautioned against it. PETA wants BSA to drop all fishing merit

This all comes down to How far is the old CO willing to go to regain the assets? The old CO can not force the members to come back but it does still have legal rights to all assets acquired by the unit while chartered by the old CO. The old CO has grounds to file suit for theft of property and funds. Just because a unit allows a charter to lapse does not give that unit the right to seize property. If you lease a building and allow the lease to lapse you dont take ownership of the building. Is the old CO willing to go to court to press its legal rights? The old CO would have to file suit agains

It sounds to me like the troop Committee need to reevaluate its role in this troop. Just because its the way we have always done it does not make it correct. I wonder what will happen if the Troop Committee were to say that an exception could be made in this case but the PLC, when they met, decided that they felt the rules were important and that no exception should be made. This should be a PLC decision and the Troop Committee should then review that decision based on safety and practicality not past practice. LongHaul

I think most of us agree the SM has acted improperly. Scout-parent, is this SM trained in his position? If so how long ago. Seems he has missed some of the very basic premises of Scouting and the Patrol Method. First in response to your statement that he rejiggers the patrol makeups, the patrols should be formed by the boys themselves with the exception of the New Scout patrol which is just that New Scouts or more specifically transitioning Webelos or 11 year old new boys. This should be a team of their choosing and should not be altered by outsiders. Second he must have missed the Patrol/Troo

IMO Woodbadge is no longer program based but is now leadership based. When should you learn how to be an effective leader? Sign up and take the course at your earliest convenience. LongHaul

Spiney Norman, Check this link to the GTSS http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=xx&c=ds&terms=Guide+to+Safe+Scouting&x=24&y=9 There are several restrictions, single shot firearms being a major one. We also do this type of outing and the boys love it. LongHaul

No matter what you may read in these forums about the changes made to the Woodbadge training I do not think you will find anyone that has said it is not worth the time to take. In answer to your questions another YES! YES! YES! YES! LongHaul used to be a BEAR

Just so long as we acknowledge that a lie is a lie not matter why we may choose to tell it.

SR540BEAVER, The IOLS portion is only recommended for most positions, it is not required. Eagle74, Listing members as ASM's instead of Committee members gets you in a bind when it comes to BOR's where SM's and ASM's are not supposed to sit. Having me Activities Chair at every meeting and on every outing means he is doing an ASM's job but he can also "technically" do BOR's. I find it much more efficient to have a full committee some of whom serve as ASM's. This way the committee jobs are assigned and the ASM's job becomes a fill in for whom ever is around. LongHaul

Requiring that you forfit your life rather than speak an untruth? That's got to be the definition of "tough love". LongHaul

When your position is Committee Member all you need is NLE and Troop Committee Challenge. You get no Troop Program instruction, no outdoor instruction, No instruction related to delivering program or working with young boys. What you do have is a set of WOODBADGE BEADS, which says you are as trained as anyone else with woodbadge beads. Problem is it's not the same training. LongHaul

Hunt, From my post of 11/25/2005, "Wrong is defined as 'Not in conformity with fact or truth; incorrect or erroneous.'" There are usually several entries for words in the dictionary, what I'm saying is that we need to pick one and stick with it through the discussion. LongHaul

Hunt, Once again our differences have come down to defining terms. When we use the word right in connection with the word wrong we limit ourselves as to word meaning in that discussion or we end up going in circles. The beginning question of is it OK to ignore policy shifted to is it OK to lie about whether you ignore policy. This puts the definitions of right and wrong into the truth and non truth sections of their respective definitions. Righteous, though it sounds the same is not about truth itself but what is morally correct, something without guilt or sin. Using the Nazi reference, de

Prairie_Scouter, I didnt see the gray areas you were referring to in your examples. Doing something in the name of God doesnt make it right. National never said that they wanted all the gays and atheists weeded out. We are under no mandate to search out undesirables within our program. For the sake of discussion please identify some of these gray areas. Packsaddle, Had to look up persiflage thanks I learned a new word today. You wrote; It is easy to imagine or remember situations in which our mistakes and deceptions cause problems. In some cases the most direct and just solu

Eagle63, Perhaps you missed the intent of this addition. This has nothing to do with the POR req. It addresses being in Command. If you want to fly you must solo, if you want to skipper a ship you have to take the Command. NeilLup, I agree this little pipe dream of ours would never make it past National, even though it is part of the current Sea Scout Program. I dont think it would be for any of the reasons you suggested though. I think National would realize that this would reduce the number of boys being awarded the Eagle Rank and that just wouldnt be acceptable. Addressing

Hunt Again we must define terms, I began my last post with the dictionary definition of "wrong". By definition it would be "wrong" to lie to the Nazis. What should we do? We should do the honorable thing and lie through our teeth with a smile on our face and sleep like a baby. My post was intended to point out that lying is lying no matter why you do it. It's when we say it isn't lying that we start on the slippery slope. Ignoring the policy as written is a breach of our agreement when we signed the adult application. When I invite Webelos' to camp with me at a Camporee it is against p