LongHaul

Kahuna, You are correct I didn't phrase that correctly. I didn't mean to ask "What if I murdered you BEFORE I cut your line" the point was I cut your line and ended your life to save mine. That sounds like murder to me. As to the car accident senario society has made it legal for paramedics in that instance to decide who will die and who will live. The door has been opened, and that is what I have doubts about. If that accident happened in the 1960 south and I was black and you were white it would still be legal to let us both die trying to save you. Until we decide the issue of w

BrentAllen While I agree that a persons military service, or lack there of, should not be used to justify or qualify actions I find your classification, for the lack of a better word, of what is or isn't a war hero interesting. You seem to favor the term be used to discribe a single act rather than a personal trait. As to Clelands not being wounded in battle or on the battlefield, I wasn't aware that there was anyplace in that country at that time that wasn't part of the battlefield. If Shughard's and Gordon's helicopter had exploded on landing back at base they wouldn't have died in

Yes Ed but what happens when the card comes back with someone else signature. The boys know who some of the counselors are and do talk among themselves. My original question goes to quality control. The longer one stays in the program the more horror stories one hears or encounters. As a MBC for Personal Management I had a scout present a budget to me with all ZEROS. No income, No projected income, No spending, "My Mom won't let me handle money." I told him I could not counsel him at this time and offered to meet with his mother to explain the badge. He went to another counselor and rec

I am not being allowed to format this, a reoccuring problem of late, so I can't highlite sorry From the Avancement Committee guide book The Scout should be neat in appearance and his uniform should be as correct as possible, with the badges worn properly. It should be the desire of the board to encourage the Scout to talk so that the review can be a learning experience for the candidate and the members of the board. From the Supplemental Training Module put out by National on its web site. A board can expect a Scout to be neat in appearance and properly uniformed. With the

OGE, I think you are answering my post not Kahuna's. I see from rereading my post that I didn't write what I was thinking I appologize. We as a society need to decide this question as a matter of law. The polar ends are life at conception and life at birth, currently the law is somewhere in the middle and hovering at "viable" with "mother's health" complicating things. It's easy to say life begins at conception and that's it, the hard part is what protection under the law do we give that life? What would be the penalty for fetuscide? Abortion would be premeditated from the mother's st

BrentAllen, Cleland volunteered for service volunteered for duty in Viet Nam when he could have stayed state side but is less in your mind because the grenade was dropped by a friendly. Are you saying that the men who gave their lives in the service of their country aboard the USS Oriskany and the USS Forestall fall lower on your scale than those who died aboard the USS Cole?

First funscout, please dont take offense at how I word some of this I am not as articulate as I am passionate. I mean you no offense nor do I wish to make light your beliefs. You say several things which are conflicting in my opinion. You say that your views on abortion changed, is that the case or did your views on when life began change? When you favored pro choice and that a woman who had been raped should not be forced to carry the child did you actually think of the child as a child at that point? Could it be that when you saw your own child in your womb you redefined that concept? You al

Careful Ed! This is a very good thread right now on the subject of the original post, please don't bring what is and isn't taught at "Woodbadge for the 21st. Century" (the one word title just doesn't cut it anymore) because at the last course at a council near me this wasn't even mentioned.

As I read OGE's quote from the Advancement Committee guide I was ready to begin this reply but decided to read the other replies first, glad I did because Beavah beat me to my quote. Over the years I have come to believe that the National Publications are not written or edited by people with first hand experience in delivering program. There is too much contradiction and too much confusion created because the author doesn't seem to understand the material in a real world sense. IMO we must always keep the boys welfare foremost. Are we doing something because we have the power? because we h

Funscout, My irritation is with the "Christian Ethics" lable. I ask you and John in KC if you each felt your feelings at the time you "saw" your unborn child were determined by your religion? I think not. I know many Christians and their ethics differ considerably. To say "X" is a Christian ethic or "Y" is a Christian ethic is to say you know the mind of all Christians. "X" may be a Christian belief, "Y" may be a Christian teaching. If we just look at what has been done in the name of Christ since his assention we can see that attitudes and actions have spanned the spectrum from lo

Roundtable is suppposed to be a training aid/tool. I have seen it become a social event, a place to talk about whats happpening Scouting wise a calandar meeting once a month, a planning meeting for up comming events. Our roundtable is held on the same night as my unit meetings so I have to chose. Do I change my unit meeting night when roundtable night changes? No matter which night the district choses it is someones unit meeting night. Attendance at roundtable is a yardstick for measuring attendance at roundtable WHEN spoken of in terms of the individual. Attendance at roundtable can ver

The following are not necessarily the views or indicative of the practices of the poster and are presented for discussion purposes only; If the boy is expected to meet the requirements as stated no more no less can someone show me any place in the National publications where serve actively is defined or explained? If I have been given, or have accepted if you prefer, the position of Librarian and either no one has asked to use the library for 6 months of the existing policy/practice has been that scouts take and replace books unsupervised, how have I failed to execute my position? A

Ah Yes EagleInKy BUT isn't also true that at some point during the day it's still "today" in that "somewhere" and still yesterday "somewhere else"? TERRY Please just re set the clock! Oh my head hurts. LongHaul

Dan, When the Patriot Act was passed and you gave up some of your rights just where did YOU go to Ok it's Passing? When it was revised and repassed again were you given the option of saying NO!? When the case to require Google to turn over data was drafted were you consulted? Were you even aware that the Patriot act was up for vote the first time around? Your question "If you give an inch you may give a mile?" ignores the reality that it is harder to stop something already started than to prevent it from starting in the first place.(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

What's the answer? We just have to get the message to the RNC and the elected pols that we've had enough. I think a lot of people are starting to do just that. Sooner or later, they will get the message. I cant help but think of my Troop when I read that sentence. Ive tried for a long time now to get the boys to take over leadership and ownership of their troop. The bottom line is they dont want the responsibility or the work involved. There is no way to force them to take the reins. My only options are continue as is or disband the unit. In politics what are my options? Vote f

Why must my code of ethics, my moral standards, my sense of right and wrong be equated with which religion or an absence of religion my parents chose to follow while I was being raised? Dont I get to have a say here at all? If who I am and how I feel about certain issues is the result of the fact that my parents chose to raise me in the Roman Catholic faith and only that then I ask all of you WHY are we spending so much time as Scouters? Why spend so much time in these forums discussing this stuff? I feel the way I do because I was raised Christian, not because of anything Ive gotten out o

Eagledad, My list of "credentials" was included to point out that at different trainings one will get different explanations or interperetations for the same question. Am I to understand from your post that you think a Scoutmaster is mMaster only up to First Class and then the MBCs decide what "earn" means? The "Blue Card" I refer to is the National Publication #34124 an example of it can be found at http://www.meritbadge.com/files/bluecard.pdf. When you refer to "the advancement proceedures" please remember that National allowes Councils to impose "local interprtations" on many points

TryingHard, I appologize for not addressing your question before going on. Who makes the final decision? First the troop Committee has no say at all. Second the MBC decideds whether or not the requirements have been met in his/her opinion. Third the SM has the obligation to the troop( read youth ) to insure that the proscribed policies have been followed. The FINAL decision rests with the Council Advancement Committee. If the SM refuses to accept the signature of the "approved MBC" the Council Advancement Committee can over rule him and award the badge. LongHaul

BrentAllen, You and I have disagreed before and I hope that wont prompt you to say consider the source and dismiss what I say. You seem to repeatedly associate the current administration with America the USA and the like. Repeatedly it has been asked if you and those aligned with you would be equally supportive of administrations with different views. Was Clinton the USA as you seem to see GWB as being the USA. What Im trying to say is that its not the administration its the concept and the ideals. You agree with GWBs vision and I respect that, but to continually say that those who opp

In another thread as we say a fellow poster said "the Scoutmaster selects the counselor" and this poster felt that it would be up to the Scoutmasters descretion whether to accept a signed Blue Card from a different counselor. Yes it is the District/Council Advancement Committees responsibility to approve MBCs but as SM I have the resposibility of quality control within the troop I serve. There could be times, Summer Camp or Mass merit badge sessions where the specific MBC would not be known before hand but what about when it's just a scout and his buddy and you have selected a counselo

First I am going to spin off a seperate thread in reference to Beavah's post.It will be in the Advancement section Let me play devils advocate here for a bit. I currently serve as Scoutmaster. Ive taken Scoutmaster training both pre and post 2001. Ive taken Woodbadge training pre 2001. Im a MBC and have taken MB training pre and post 2001. Which all means I have way to much information on policy to make this type of decision. As Scoutmaster it is my responsibility to see that the quality of the program and instruction meets my standard. I am Scoutmaster, that means I set quality control st

I started a new thread about this topic but it disappeared! Maybe the moderators objected to how much fun this is going to be now that this post will appear BEFORE the posts of the PREVIOUS 24 hours.

Rooster 7, Long Haul whether you intended it to be interpreted this way or not, your quote is meant for people of prejudice and/or insensitivity, who turn a blind eye to injustices and atrocities which do not affect them directly. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant something else. If you meant for it to be interpreted properly likening me to the citizenry of NAZI Germany who supposedly were aware of atrocities but chose to ignore them - then I have a few choice words for you which I cannot post here. Use your imagination. Your interpretation of my Martin Ni

We have done this at Klondike so the boys were sleeping during the warmer hours and active when it's coldest. One fun thing is the "Dry Cleaner Bag" balloons which look really cool at night. Remember to teather them with fishing line for control.

This thread brought back a question concerning SCOUT NET an how it counts dates. We now need specific dates for advancement, Jan 2006 doesn't cut it, it must be MM/DD/YY. How does this apply to the Jan 1 to July 1 equalls six months concept. What I heard when records were being transfered into the net was that six months equals 182 days. So Jan 1 to July 1 would actually be one day short. The date of the BOR would have to be July 2. Starting with Feb 1 results in Aug 3 as the first possible date. Now I have not seen this in print from National and I know we all have our positions of how