Lisabob

My scout shop folks told me this week that there will be a new shirt coming out soon. This is in keeping with a variety of posts on this board over the last 6-8 months. However, they could not tell me exactly when that would be happening. Their advice was - don't buy a new shirt just yet! If anybody else has specific dates, that would certainly be nice to know.

Again context really is key. We have a couple of boys in the troop who LOVE to talk about politics and who would probably handle this question very well even though their views tend to be in the distinct minority where we live. For those boys, asking them who they would vote for and WHY (agreeing with Stosh on the importance of the why part) would be an ice breaker type of question. But in other contexts, if I did not know a boy very well, if it was a situation where the BOR was made of stubborn individuals who don't like being contradicted in their political views, then I would ask the question "Do you plan to vote?" with maybe "What sorts of factors might influence your decisions about whom to vote for" as a follow up question. I teach American politics and I never ask students to declare an allegiance to a particular candidate in any public way because I don't want them to think the "right" answer is "my" answer. I do ask them to explain the strengths and weakness of various candidates. I do ask them to be able to explain the factors that matter to them, and WHY they matter, when making a voting decision (in the abstract, not tied to a particular race or candidate). Sometimes I assign them a candidate for a project. I always tell them that if this is the one they support, that's fine, but if not, then it is also good to know the opposition. To my way of thinking citizenship isn't about giving the "right" answer to questions of political loyalty, but rather about being thoughtful and careful in one's choices. Any boy who can demonstrate those latter qualities, is well on his way.

Correction to my last post - our local scout shop is now honoring the sale. What they aren't doing is allowing anyone who bought pants at full price a week or so before the sale to double up. I guess I can understand that but still...urgh. Would have been nice to know the sale was coming, because I'd have waited. The kind folks at our scout shop told me they didn't know either though and that national supply just sprung it on them.

In one of those inane threads ( ) Oak Tree says he thinks the person doing sign off should have the authority to interpret the requirements. Sometimes this isn't hard to do (camp X number of nights, for example). Sometimes it is though, as we see every time that tenderfoot fitness requirement is brought up. And in larger troops with a bunch of new scouts (hey! like ours right now!) it can be a real challenge because not all people with authority to sign off use the same interpretation. So in larger troops where multiple people have signing authority (including maybe some of the higher-ranked boys), does the SM or someone sit down with all of the signers and say "this is our standard" for each requirement? What else do you do in your troop to assure at least some consistency here?

I know many packs who do this at our council camps. There are also a lot of parents in cubbing who are not experienced campers. They might be willing to do cabin camping but no way will you get them to do tent camping at first. So cabins make sense and if they're cheap I say go for it!

I work with university students. My deal with them is that they don't refer to me as Mrs. (always makes me look over my shoulder for my mother in law!) and I won't refer to them or treat them as kids. Works pretty well most of the time but still I slip up once in a while, and more so when I teach freshmen/women. As my own teenage son approaches their age I find I am slipping more often despite good intentions. But yeah...I remember being 12 (let alone 18-19-20) and thinking I owned the world...

Well I asked at our scout shop and they are NOT honoring the sale (but the ones in two nearby councils are). Just FYI, be sure to call and ask first if you're planning a trek to your scout shop for this purpose.

Agreed re: your last comment Mark! We are talking about 9-10-11 year old boys here. About the last thing they'll find exciting is to watch a bunch of other boys do fun things all day, while they themselves are kept at arms length as onlookers. How dull! Now, there may be ways to make that more interesting. Especially if the webelos boys know the boy scouts as friends, schoolmates, etc.. But that's not what I saw happen when our guys were webelos. They did not know these boy scouts personally and had little interest in following them around to merely **watch** all day long. (For that matter, I doubt the boy scouts were all that keen on being followed around by a bunch of "little kids" who were not part of their group, either.)

Sorry hops! Somehow I didn't see that thread until you pointed it out

Scoutstuff.org must have an oversupply, or else rumors about total uniform change are true, because they're running a 2 for 1 sale on the switchbacks, for men, women, and youth. To find the info, go to www.scoutstuff.org and type "switchback sale" into the search box. When you click on the picture of the pants you'll see all the info and the sale detail is toward the bottom of the screen, just above the red "promo code." Or try this link but it is really long and i don't know if it will work: http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/default.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&C2=UNIFORMS&C3=SBSALE&C4=&LV=3

YIkes Deborah! I hope your son is ok! We bought a pair recently and my son really likes them. About two weeks later, we heard that scoutstuff.org was having a 2-for-1 sale on them. Go figure.

We have a problem with that requirement for the reason you mention too. One solution some boys have found is to go to the local park during not-busy times. Most parks still have a swingset, jungle-gym, or something that can be used to practice pull ups. It isn't ideal but at least that way they can say they've practiced. I guess there are bars you can put up in doorways too - don't know how stable these are? - but I don't think they're expensive.

Crossram, no disrespect intended, can you tell me where you found that one night rule?

Sctdad, Webelos dens are allowed to choose an emblem and rename themselves the "Dragons" (or whatever else). This is given the "official blessing" in the various leader guides and I think, also in the webelos handbook (for the scouts). They are still referred to as dens though, even if they choose this. When I was a WDL we let the boys pick a den emblem right after they were done with the Bear program. One den became "wolverines" and another "sabretooth tigers."

I don't care much for the BSA national website either! Best place to find these is in the Cub Leader's Handbook and the Committee and Scoutmaster's Handbook, depending on whether we're talking cub pack or troop. (At the troop level, I also strongly recommend you read through the patrol leader's book and the plain old boy scout handbook - lots of useful stuff in those, even though they are written for the boys). You can buy all of these at your local scout shop. I am not aware of them being on line. However, you can get at least some of the info from these handbooks in the various leader trainings available through the BSA online learning center, here: http://olc.scouting.org/ (You can do fast start training for packs and troops, youth protection training, and troop committee challenge training here, all of which should give you a good feel for the programs you are about to start) There is also the Guide to Safe Scouting, which is online and which lays out some boundaries for what is/is not permissible or advisable. It is easy to get "lost" in the G2SS though and some parts are not as clearly written as they might be, leading to differences of opinion about what they mean, FYI. Here's a link to the online G2SS: http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/GSS/toc.aspx

Scoutingmama, glad to hear it is working out so well so far for you. A quick recommendation - before you get too wrapped up in writing a bunch of policies, look very closely at those policies and guidelines already in existence from the BSA - for both the cub and the boy scout units. Many times, well-meaning individuals go about writing unit by-laws and policies that prove to be a) redundant and/or b) in opposition to the way the BSA program is actually organized. These can take on a life of their own and become a major source of headaches down the line. About training - if you have a bunch of people who need training and the district and/or council isn't offering it anytime soon, contact your district training chair and ask him or her to come to your unit and conduct a training session specifically for you. Having all your adults present at the same training session together can be really helpful. And in the meantime, don't forget to make good use of the BSA's online training material, which is actually pretty decent. IMO - Every new adult (even just parents) should be encouraged to go through the Fast Start training and Youth Protection at the bare minimum. These can be done together or at home, and don't take long. Good luck!

Although some people apparently do this and perhaps it even works well for them, please be aware that this is not in keeping with the "official" cub scout program. In fact, the cub leader hand book explicitly indicates that webelos dens are still dens, not patrols. As was mentioned recently in another thread, there is a risk of either treating webelos too much like boy scouts (and thus getting them in over their heads), or of "dumbing down" what is meant by "patrol" so that if/when the boys cross into a troop, their expectations of what patrols do may not match reality, setting them (and their new troop) up for problems later on. Ideally the solution to the problem of a den that is becoming too big to manage would be to form a second den. That's the "book" answer anyway. Hope this is helpful to you.

Speaking as a district membership chair (it is our job to help get new units going, at least in my council it is): Not only will your DE be delighted to help you because this is a criterion upon which his/her success is judged, your district membership committee should be too. Ask them for assistance promoting the new pack, helping organize cub round-ups, getting the first couple of meetings going, etc. We have several charter orgs that sponsor a pack and a troop. In no case do the pack and troop share a committee, although in some cases they have a couple of adult members in common. I think it could quickly become overwhelming to attempt to have the same people in charge of both. And the needs of each unit will be different, may sometimes even conflict. So separate committee identities are a "must" in my view. I strongly recommend as well that you and whoever else are planning to get in on the ground floor of starting a new cub pack, take Cub Leader Training first. It will help you get the pack off to a solid start and avoid unnecessary confusion about structure of the units and function of different adult positions (like Den Leader and Cub Master). I think it is great that you plan to get a pack going! Please keep in mind though, that as the pack matures, they will take on a separate "personality" from your troop, and also that they don't exist merely to serve as a feeder to your troop. I've seen some start-ups where the folks in charge expected this, and were angry when some of "their" cubs chose other troops to join.

Good point E. I get frustrated sometimes, looking at recruiting/retention numbers because I can see that in the same town, some units are going gangbusters and others are barely limping along. The gangbusters ones don't need our help. The others might, but they are either so wrapped up in dealing with unit problems, or their leaders are so burned out, that they don't usually take advantage of whatever resources we offer anyway. Something of a catch-22. I will continue trying to sell "service to units" as the purpose of our district committee existence, rather than "make work for units." I suppose, having never seen most of our district committees operate this way in the past, it could take a long time to convince unit leaders that we're serious about it.

I think you'd find there are plenty of leaders - especially cub leaders - who go to trainings like OLS hoping to really learn new skills, and who get frustrated with the show & tell nature of some of the less-well-executed trainings. What good is it to watch someone do something, without trying it yourself, probably several times, until you feel you can do it on your own? At the same time though, I can see where it is difficult or maybe impossible to truly teach skills to a novice in the space of a day and a half. And then, there is the issue that OLS really ought to be about how to teach these skills to the boys, not how to do these skills. These are not the same thing. I don't know how to resolve this. One thought is to hold an annual "outdoor skills" workshop for interested adults, to teach basic skills. Don't make it mandatory, don't make it part of being "trained," do make it relaxed, fun, and relevant. Then encourage these folks to take OLS afterwards. But, I don't know whether people would do it.

Our council does not allow webelos and cubs to attend the spring camporee. They have sometimes allowed webelos to attend the fall camporee as guests of troops, and they have also hosted a cub program to coincide with the fall boy scout camporee - particularly every 3-4 years when they do a very big fall camporee. This fall our council did that and encouraged Cub Packs to camp, but they had a separate camping area and separate activities set up for them on the opposite end of the earth from boy scout camping. I have never been able to find the "one night" rule for cub camping and have come to the conclusion it does not exist except as a myth. (but if others are keener eyed than I, by all means point it out) I know that I was taught this "rule" myself back when I was a cub leader and went to training, along with what turned out to be a bunch of other mis-statements. Eagle Foot, I commend you for being open to changing your understanding of "the rules" because in my experience, that doesn't happen too often, especially with people who are no longer actually involved in the cub program. One more thing I remember from my Webelos leader days: Most cub events were pitched a little too low for our Webelos guys (esp. by the second year), so as to be accessible to younger cubs. At the same time, some boy scout events were too hard or required skills our webelos guys didn't have yet. Consequently I really wish our council had a "webelos woods" type of program in place and would encourage others to take a closer look at doing the same. You could even run it parallel to your camporee and have troops invite webelos to camp with them, just run separate day activities.

Thanks folks, we have a location picked out and are coordinating with a well-regarded flight school that works with the local council for other activities. They'll do a "mini ground school" with our guys and weather permitting, will do some flying too. All that remains is to figure out some final logistics and hope for good weather!

Funny, we are having that same conversation in our district about Spring Tiger Recruiting (which isn't wildly successful most years, but we do it anyway). This year the membership committee have offered to do a show&sell style "Join Cub Scouts" day outside several local stores. We (district membership) will get approval from the stores, set up displays, and publicize the event. All we ask is that packs support this district-wide recruiting effort by helping staff the tables for an hour or two. So far response from packs has been tepid. Last fall we held a community recruiting event for boy scout troops. We had representatives of all local troops attend, with demonstrations/hand outs/activities to do. We promoted it heavily among webelos leaders as one way for them to forge connections to area troops well in advance of cross-over season. In one town where we did this, of 10 packs, not one webelos leader, not one webelos youth, attended the event. Yet recruiting remains an issue and many unit leaders tell us how hard it is to do well. Our small membership committee is open to trying new or different things in support of units but sometimes I admit I wonder whether it makes any difference. What else can we do for them? Why aren't they doing this themselves?

We do about one of these every year or other year. Last year we went to an aerospace museum and also to a national historical site (one of our national service academies). It really depends a lot for us on what the interests of the boys in the troop are.

Oh and don't forget Nader. Didn't I see that he was entering the race a few weeks back? (Did anybody in the whole country give a hoot?) Then there's Gene Amondson, running on the Prohibition party ticket (because prohibition worked so well last time we tried it) and Jackson Grimes of the United Fascist Union. Yes these guys are for real or anyway they seem to think they are. Check them out in the list of 2008 candidates over at project vote smart: http://www.votesmart.org/election_president_search.php?type=alpha