Laurie

Right-handed everything comes naturally though I can use the left if necessary. Usually I need both hands for all activities. I'm a mom--what I'm doing for me with one hand is usually being done for a little one with the free hand (This message has been edited by Laurie)

Hi, and welcome! Do you have a committee chairman? That would be the person, according to the Cub leader manual, to cover in the absence of the Cubmaster. That would the person to turn to for support too. We did not have one (except in name) until this year, and it is a wonderful position to have filled. Have you taken training as Asst. Cubmaster? If so, it should have been the same as Cubmaster. That's what I'm signed up for now with the hopes it doesn't get cancelled again. But that's another story altogether I'm not sure if I've helped at all, but I hope you have some answers soon. It is so helpful to know who can serve in what way rather than to wonder.

Laura, is there any chance that you could have a private talk with the COR? Express your concern to her, beginning with your knowledge of her desire to do what's right for the boys. Ask if you can then explain to her your understanding of how to do that, and then ask her where you might be wrong. She could then see that she is not letting the boys run things, or she could try to change your thinking, or she could get mad. But I think if you sit with her, praising her dedication first and foremost, then explaining that the boys are trying to lead the troop by planning, and then that you though it should be that way, but perhaps you are wrong--so how so? Gently, kindly, firmly, but do it for the sake of the boys. Noone need ever know why she lightens up should that happen. She may see, when not on the spot, that approving these things isn't so bad, and let her do it without your taking credit. She saves face, and the boys get what they want. I know I might not be clear, but I'm trying to think through what you have shared here and to figure out the best approach. Good luck!(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Scoutmom, I'm very sorry. I couldn't go back and edit my post, but I should have followed up on that. My decision not to take leadership in any role other than assistant is just that: my decision for me. We happen to have many men in our pack and in our troop who are terrific leaders, so it's nice--in my opinion--to see that take place. That said, I've had the privilege to meet some awesome female Scoutmasters, and I know I could never do as good a job as they do. The boys who have them as leaders look sharp, have great programs, and are growing in leaps and bounds in scouting. If a woman were to be the next Cubmaster or Scoutmaster of the pack or troop I serve, she would get my full support and be treated no differently than a male leader. Please forgive me for making a post that sounded as though women should not be the leaders. It is my opinion that THIS woman (as in me personally) should not take the lead role, and that is what I meant to say. For the offense, I am truly very sorry.

As a woman, I agree with what some have said here: I feel strongly that boys need men as role models. Because of that, I quite deliberately turned down the Cubmaster position and am serving as Assistant Cubmaster. I also will not take any leadership role in the troop outside of the committee positions. If I can work in areas that free the men up to work with the boys more, than I am thrilled about that. However, no matter what position what I fill, I feel confident that my example will be noticed--and not just by the boys. Example: noone in our pack but the cubmaster wore a uniform. Almost a year ago, some leaders expressed the feeling that they would stand out and be doing the wrong thing if they wore a uniform. I was saddened by this. Yep, we lack training, so all the rest gets a little muddled in what's appropriate and what isn't. So, the month I registered, I got lucky: the only training course offered all year was that month. I went, but not in uniform. Oh boy, did that feel odd. Everyone there had one. So I came home and went out and bought what I could afford--the shirt and all insignia. I wore it to the very next Cub meeting. Interestingly enough, it was other leaders that came to me and asked how I knew what insignia to wear, where to get the uniform, and did I think they should do it too. I told them it was up to them, that I was doing what I believed to be right by the boys in setting the example and identifying myself with the uniform. We now have 2 more leaders in uniform, and one considering it. The boys think that's pretty cool, and the parents know exactly who to go to--the adults in uniform. Oh, and I wwent to roundtable in a nice civilian outfit, but all others were in uniform. Noone spoke to me, noone knew who I was or what I was doing there. The next roundtable, I went in uniform, and I had many approach me, making an effort to say hi, especially those in the same position. I felt as though I belonged, but the only thing that changed was what I wore! That's my story of my uniform

Well, those buttons may be backwards to you, FOG, but they sure work fine for me I happen to like having a Boy Scout uniform, would prefer the yellow blouse, but opted against it for 2 reasons: I can't use it when I move on to the troop, and I'm told it isn't easy to get (I tried 4 Scout shops, so I found that to be true). Do check the tan shirts, for FOG is right about the cut and the buttons. Another way to tell is that the label actually states "BSA Official Ladies Blouse". When my boys told me I couldn't wear a Boy Scout shirt, I showed them the label Now, that said, my personal reasons for not liking to wear the uniform are that I'm overweight so it looks bad, and that it's expensive, so that's why I have the shirt and insignia now, but still need to add the rest. The ladies may wear the man's shirt, and I'm told it is much more comfortable. Plus, if you don't tell a boy it was worn by a woman, you can pass it on eventually--something I didn't think to do since I'm determined my shirt will soon be too large. Now to answer the original question: if you go on outings, you will find that often the uniform is mandatory. That seems to vary from council to council. I was asked to wear a uniform to training, and I was encouraged to get one when I said I didn't even had one.

But how did the dad get to call the shots? It sounds as though he just took over as leader in this case--maybe not officially, but certainly in calling the shots with his son. Poor kid--sounds like a tug of war.

Twocubdad started a list: "Compassion -- visit nursing home, or any number of service projects. Resourcefullness -- survival weekend, Einstein kits Courage -- COPE or obstacle course; program with a Medal of Honor recipient (this one we're trying to this with our pack) Responsibility -- tie-in with shooting sports, whittlin' or totin' chip Perserverence -- COPE or obstacle or any advancement which requires long-term project (fitness, personal finance, etc.) Can any one else add more?" Yes. Compassion: was shown to my nephew who is battling cancer and is a Cub. He is limited in what he can do, yet the whole pack supported him by making sure he was as much a part of the program as possible. Compassion: making cards to deliver to shut-ins. It was fun to do, and it touched someone else's life, and they gave without expecting or getting anything in return. Cooperation: When we have den meetings and are making things, are the boys working together or trying to out-do one another? We stress helping one another and working as a team, and it begins with the adult leaders, who are seen working together by the boys. Perseverance: Knots is the area that helps us to teach our Cubs perseverance (sp?). They found knots very challenging, but we simply supported them, encouraged them, and kept on trying. Cubs provides a safe place to try things that are challenging--to learn the art of perseverance. Positive Attitude: Had a long day? Tired, kind of grumpy, not really into being at the meeting? You can spot that kid right away! A kind word, a gentle nudge in the right direction, and his attitude begins to improve. It starts in the pack and den meetings with leaders who aren't visibly stressed or entering the room frantic. Been there, done that, and it is NOT the way to model a positive attitude. Some things I'm not sure how to fit neatly into one category. What about the boy who is reading out loud, gets really stuck on a word, and the boy next to him very quietly whispers the word. A need was identified, help was given, and it was done so in a way that kept the struggling boy's dignity intact. Small things often are very significant, and I could list a lot. I think these all work together. A kind person is usually helpful and compassionate and has a positive attitude. Faith helps to accomplish those same things. Respect is hand in hand with it all too. If I think I have more value than you, I will not show you respect. It is my faith that has taught me that we all value and all are equal, and therefore that is what I try live, and it is what I try to help our boys to see. Back to prayer: I have strong feelings about prayer, but I will not judge another's prayer; I will encourage the Cubs to at least consider prayer and getting to know God, and to do so by talking to their families about it. Many don't take part in church and look at me rather blankly when I mention God, so we have to start somewhere. My view of Cubs and Boy Scouts is this: it is a way to introduce the aims with the hopes that the boys will learn, each in his own way, to grow into men of integrity.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Mark, that sounds like a great idea! Your idea of having someone moderate is good too; it should help keep things civil though lively. Please post once the debate takes place. I would love to hear how it goes. Enjoy

"...(or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop)..." I took this to mean that the leadership project would be a 6-month project NOT that the time requirement would be waived in favor of one project that could be of shorter...far shorter...duration. For instance, it isn't necessarily a title given to the boy, but instead is, using the knot board idea, creating a knot board and then teaching the knots during that time frame. Leadership implies far more than just making something, and regardless of whether it is service or leadership, I just don't read this requirement as waiving the 6-month time frame. I read it as choose one of those, leadership or service, and do that for 6 months. The SM would approve those things not already falling within a job description. But then, I'm new, so you can just ignore me

Thanks for sharing that hops, and I will share it with my sons when they return home from school today. You are helping us all to remember those lost and those who are moving on without their loved ones.

Yes, we have 6 schools represented in our pack, 4 of those the public schools. About 99% of the boys are from the public schools. We are a large school district, we have varying calendars, and my big idea at the end of last year was to accomodate those who were complaining about scheduling. Well, we changed a few events, and guess what? The complainers did not come, nor did many others who would have been there. I'm new to this, but the reality is that you won't please everyone. If you use the school calendars, there are still sports and music lessons and family events and so on. Where do you draw the line? What I would try--and I have tried--is to see what those families coming into the pack think of this idea. Ask them straight out, no promises, but don't avoid it. Heading into this year, as we were ready to plan our calendar, I asked all families to please share their school calendars with me so that we could try to avoid as many conflicts as possible. Not one family responded. My thoughts on this year are that they had the opportunity to give input, were asked to give it, did not give it, and now we simply go ahead with the calendar using what info we do have. Hang in there! And let us know how it works out.

This past year was my first year with sons in the Cub Scout program, and one has bridged into the troop. I am still learning about the troop, but here's what we are planning for the pack and more importantly, the WHY of the planning. By now, many of you know that I'm trying to learn the ropes and have a goal of helping to polish our program. The program is in place, but it has nothing that addressed God, very little that addresses country, and a confused understanding of how the family fits into the program...or maybe how the program fits into the family. To address family, we are doing the following: (1) telling the family that Cubs is a family program, that it is set up in such a way that families work together to help their sons meet the requirements--they don't know this; (2) planning one project or fun activity each month that involves the entire family--after our camping trip, the parents that went actually asked if we could do more things together; (3) encouraging parents to stay for pack meetings--they drop their kids off, but honestly, there's little incentive for them to stay right now. To show the families they are an important part of their son's success in Cubs, we are asking them to come forward as well as the boys to give a public thank you for their contributions this past summer. It was a great summer! We would like to continue that throughout the year, bringing attention not only to the Cubs, but also to the families. We are adding short prayers to each opening. This is a big change, for in getting to know the den leaders, one told me he didn't think he should talk about God at all, not even in encouraging the boy to meet the "God requirement". Another seemed just plain stunned that I'd mention God in a Cub setting, and not too happy about it. When the meeting ended without my evangelizing anyone, I think it was clear that God can be a significant part of the program without it becoming a preaching time. Yet another thought the idea of a prayer was a good one, and the thought had never--in 12 years of leadership--occurred to him. So, a short prayer is a big step forward, and it brings attention to part of the program that is lacking. As for country. Schools and families must not be discussing/teaching much about our country because boys don't know the name of the president or the Pledge of Allegiance. We are now doing something that we should have, but have not done: opening all den meetings with a flag ceremony. Additionally, we have put all patriotic holidays on the calender and will do some sort of observance, whether by den or by pack or out in the community. One other goal I have put before our committee is to promote reading. The majority of the boys have difficulty reading, and so, to support what they are doing in school, I'd like to see the pack work with the school in promoting reading and rewarding the boys for doing so. Next year, perhaps we can focus on math, and then alternate. The idea is to take what the boys have to do and to help them see that it is not only important for school, but that it is fun and rewarding outside of school as well. I realize that nothing above is new or unique. It is to our pack though. And as parents hear about what our goals are, they are getting excited too. The key: communicating the what AND the why of whatever we do. Our focus has been on handing out awards at the Blue and Gold each year, and we have close to 100% of our Cubs advance in rank. Our focus is changing this year: help the boys to earn the rank they are working on with the knowledge of what they are doing and why. Often, they coast along, doing everything in the den, and it's weak at best. Fun with a purpose is the phrase I've heard, and that is our goal. As wordy as this is, it's only the beginning, and I look forward to a great year with Cubs and their families

Why is Scouting the first to go? Good question. Maybe part is that comparatively speaking, the cost is less. Here it is. When a parent pays 2-3 times as much for a sport that lasts only a season, that child WILL BE at that sporting event. The same goes with music lessons. We pay more for piano for one child in one month than we do for Cubs all year. Part of the problem is something that just won't go away: that which we've sunk money into often comes first. And parents are burned out--good point twocubdad. I'm always surprised at that, especially for those who have school and Cubs only as what they are involved in. I have even had parents ask me if this is ALL I have to do. Well, no, just a tiny part of what I do, but it's a priority in my son's life; therefore a priority in mine. As I get to know other parents, some of the complaints given have been: we get so little for our money, I don't have time, and then in the next breath, but I don't think this leader is doing enough, and then, when they get real honest, I have no clue what Cubs is. Now that last one: our pack has had to address this. What an amazing thing it is to see the excitement in both the parents and the boys when they realize WHAT Cubs is. Sell the program all you can. Talk one on one as much as possible, or in small groups. Share the positive stories taking place in the dens/pack meetings. Do you want some? I am happy to share We have boys who struggle in almost every other area, but in the Cub program, they are set up to succeed. And it works, building confidence as well as character. It overflows into the school setting, the family, the neighborhood. Hopping off my soapbox now--this is a tough area to me too. You are not alone in it.

I'd be very sorry to see any skill done away with that is not useful for getting by *without* technology. Knowing how to tie and use knots, knowing how to find your way by using the starts, and things of this nature are likened--to me anyway--to being able to do math without a calculator, write without being dependent upon a computer, etc. Just my .02 By the way, what is a GPS?

I'm not sure about the time issue, but encourage the parent in this area: much of what her son does in school and in soccer will earn him advancements and/or acheivements. If he has done something in a sport, school activity, church activity, count it again for Cubs. Just don't count one activity for different Cub advancements. I was suprised to learn recently that many of the parents in our pack don't know how to use the handbook, or even know that it's important. We have not even had our roundup yet, but I've had three meetings with den leaders and parents to address the use of the handbook. And the only reason I understand it is that I read it through several times, for I wanted to know what my boys were getting into The den leaders and families were relieved and excited to hear that school, sports, church all counted--and they in turn got their boys excited. Somehow it is less daunting. Though I find the books to all be very doable, I have learned that not all do. Good luck! p.s. One more thing: If you and the leaders are stresed, it will show and will lead to stressed families. That was my intro to Cubs last year..sigh... Anyway, in getting to know the leaders and the program, and in helping my sons out at home, I just fell in love with the program. I got really excited to see my sons earn advancements. I am really excited to help other boys do this too, and in talking with some of the den leaders, they asked me WHAT I liked so much. That led to me being asked to give a talk of sorts to our second-year Webelos, and in less than 5 minutes of my explaining the Arrow of Light, every boy left the meeting with questions, big smiles, and an eagerness to tackle his books. The moral of the story: be enthusiastic and let it show while also showing how doable the program is.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

If I refer to an organization as mine, I am saying that I identify with that particular group of people, that I will do all I can to serve same group, and that I have great pride in the participants in the group. So, my mindset when saying "my troop" is very much a postive thing, for as an adult leader I have no desire to tell anyone what to do, but I very much hope to fit into the program in whatever way I can best serve so that I see the boys learn and grow. I have no desire to make their choices for them, to hand them the program, to take charge--but I will do all within my power to protect them, their reputations, their self esteem (and hopefully won't need to do that). That is what saying "my troop" means coming from me. Yes, I have a sense of ownership in it, but it comes as a team player among the adults who work together to make sure the boys have the freedom along with any needed guidance to create new and exciting opportunities for themselves and their troop. I just don't see that as bad, though reading how others view "my troop" does show how that can sound bad. Could it be a mere matter of perception--an area where personality will dictate word usage rather words dictating actions? p.s. Sorry for the edit and for mixed up wording; I type fast, think faster, and talk even faster still unless I remind myself to slow my tongue down (This message has been edited by Laurie)

My religious affiliation is not related to my affiliation with the BSA, except in this respect: I agree with the Declaration of Religious Principle. Outside of that, it is often inappropriate to engage in religious discussion with Cubs and Scouts, except to encourage them to take part in their family's religious practices and to have prayers and ceremonies that don't identify with one specific religion. That is my stand with the BSA, and that is what I will share publicly. As for Merlyn, he has been upfront about who he is and what his purpose is in coming here. He doesn't pretend to be doing research; in fact,he often provides news articles and documents rather than looking for them here. Though he and I may disagree, he does not come here to judge anyone, but he does judge the issues and the organization. There really is no indication in your posts that you are like either Merlyn or the Scouters. Ed, it wouldn't be a big deal, had it not been for CRANEACE's other posts looking for "the dirt", so to speak, on the BSA. His agenda remains unclear but seems to be anti-BSA, and he (or she?) does not give any personal info, even when it's been asked for--other than his religious affiliation, that is.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

CRANEACE, noone here is denying your freedom of speech, nor is anyone denying you the right to learn what you can. However, you are asking Scouters to tell you their problems with the BSA without telling anything of yourself. You are asking us to do what the BSA does not do: to publicize problems/issues that--if they come about--are handled directly with those people that they need to be handled with. You have passed judgement on those participating in this forum but don't seem to think anyone may question your motives.

As usual, DSteele, you cleared up the very things that I've been unsure of. Thank you. One more question about pro-rating. We have been collecting 18 months worth of fees for all new boys. We have been re-registering all boys at the time of the new year, if not at roundup. They pay 12 months. Here's the confusion: the parents were all given a breakdown, but were not told why there were various amounts. Now, as we approach this issue again, I am wondering this: We renew our charter in Feb but start the year in Sept. Should we collect 18 months for all new boys (to cover til the end of the charter for this year and then again to next year's charter), or should we register them, then reregister them in Feb? This is really very confusing, and I'm quite sure it shouldn't be. My DE gave us the list of prorated costs, but we have been told (not sure by whom) that we are always to pay from charter date to charter date. TIA! And Mr. Steele, shouldn't you be taking this day off? Thank you for all you do right here on the boards!

Thank you again By the way, I'm not asking without reason: we just don't do anything patriotic, and I think we should. As often as possible. However, I don't want to guide our boys into something that if off-limits or inappropriate for the BSA.

We're just getting ready for roundup, and here's where we have a problem: we don't know what paperwork to collect for returning Cubs. There doesn't seem to be anything, so we are using the Class I Health History and a copy of the registration form so we have all the data required. Our pack has handed paperwork and money in in Feb (though roundup was Sept) because it thought that this is when it was due. In reading the agenda council provided us with, it appears as though it is due the night of roundup (each year--I have old copies--but we have NO records, and council has never asked for those applications before Feb). I would like one week--to review the forms, enter out data, etc. Then, I'd be happy to part with it and drive it to council myself, but that is because I see the importance to the paperwork. Do your packs KNOW they need to get that paperwork in right away (some people just hate paperwork and will put it off it not told it is required to be in)? Do they hear what I was told: treat it like an insurance policy. How can it cover anyone if it's sitting in a folder somewhere? We've been doing it wrong, but we honestly didn't know any better. We're not sure we're doing it right now, but we're trying, an the biggest problem we have is communication. It can be hard to get answers sometimes.

Yes, DSteele, that helps. Thank you Fat Old Guy, I grew up being part of the Color Guard in school and in Girl Scouts. It was such an honor to be part of it, but even those not participating in the actual color guard understood flag etiquette--at least it seems that way. So, we can take part in a flag ceremony for a particular political group as long as we not endorsing him/her, and we may help to encourage people to vote without sharing only one ticket. In a practical way--would it be okay to help at the polling place if a Cub or Scout were distributing literature from all parties?

If someone could point to me a resource, that would be greatly appreciated, but any help you can give here is also appreciated. Our Cubs had an opportunity to take part in a flag ceremony yesterday. They were invited by a local senior citizen community. We had four plus our new den chief from the troop, and I knew the boys knew little of flag ceremonies, but was disappointed to realize that the Cubs actually had NO knowledge at all of them. It was a friendly atmosphere, and the boys did fine with coaching, and we've been invited back. We were presented with the flag that used to fly there, and it is now to be passed on to our CO. What an honor! Our CO has a very tattered flag. What would you suggest in the way of ceremony for this presentation? Though it was given to the Cubs, it was done so for the CO, and our troop shares a CO with us. We'd like to include the troop, the pack, the senior community, and the CO. What other types of opportunities should we try to have for our Cubs in the way of patriotic observances? And, with election day not too far off, and with citizenship being important, what are the limits on political involvement? It would be great to expose the boys--Cubs and Scouts--to what takes place in the community in respect to leadership/government. However, I want to respect boundaries and am not sure of what they are. Even if the troop as whole does not get involved with the pack in the 2 areas named above, we do have one den chief now, will likely have more, and we have several big brothers who are from the troop and take part in pack activities. My personal goal is to try to, where possible, address both pack and troop needs in one event/ceremony. TIA

You know, we had the majority of boys in our pack earn not only Bobcat, but all the ranks this past year WITHOUT their name appearing on our roster. One had received his Bobcat and Webelos, but he was listed as separated from the pack. I did not realize that registration was checked prior to advancements being issued, but it did not hold up any of our boys this past year. I'm puzzled.