Laurie

Yes, many parents do see Webelos as the end. Therefore, we are presenting it as the beginning this year by showing our own enthusiasm in helping to prepare the boys for Scouts.

So, I'm wondering...if they were able to get a new leader, would the charter be restored? What happened is very wrong to the youth, but the BSA isn't to blame here, it's the woman who took a stance that she knew could jeopardize the youth. That is not leader material, IMO. Being a leader takes more selflessness than this person showed. It means that if one feels compelled to take a stand, he/she should do so without risking they youth. God forbid that I put my agenda ahead of the youth

My "job" this year is to help in this very area. Throwing this new kid into this is scary! Just kidding, but I agree--it's a big job, a vital one. I was sent a "dropped Scouts" list by my DE. It was a list of Webelos who were not listed as Scouts the following year. The records are available; my suggestion would be to contact your DE or registrar. We have a pack and a troop in the same charter organization. Oddly enough, they have separate unit commissioners. 3 years ago 1 boy bridged into the troop; the next 2 years zero boys bridged; this past year 6 boys bridged. We have 5 boys in Webelos II now, and I have been in touch with the SM and the Web den ldrs, and our goal is to have Scouts as den chiefs this year and to have 3 activities planned together (right now tentatively planned are a swim night, a hike, and the camping trip). Some of the Scouts offered to help with Arrow of Light this year, and I'm taking them up on that. I am asking for help with particular activity badges as well, for I just learned that our Web II den is very far behind--and they are expected to bridge in February. I am very excited about this, but I know it will take hard work. Though our pack and our troop work together (this year anyway ), we are open to and would support any boy in going to other troops. We simply don't know of any that are local, so we aren't involved with them. Quite frankly, one relationship to build is what we need to address first. When my son bridged this past year, I heard of complaints within the troop and within the pack about how things could have and should have gone smoother. I use that as constructive criticism, and I look forward to a smooth transition this year. Our Web II den leader was exhausted, had tired out, but I am fairly new, LOVE Webelos best of all, and as Asst CM found this listed as part of my job description. In talking with this leader, I learned that he needed support, and I wanted to be involved more with boys too, so we are teaming up. His knowledge of the boys and of having done this before teamed up with my enthusiasm and excellent resources should help a lot. (This message has been edited by Laurie)

I like the change posted. What I wonder is if we'll see Tenderfoot requirements change now. The Arrow of Light requirements relating to camping are the same as those for Tenderfoot. So, are there changes coming in the Boy Scout rank and then the Tenderfoot rank? As for improving the relationship between pack and troop, the thought that occured to me is that if the current Webelos leaders don't feel comfortable with the new requirements, they can ask for troop help. What a great opportunity!

Thank you for sharing this! I can't remember laughing so hard. The point is well made.

Who is defining kids? At age 40, there are some who still think of ME as a kid So, are we talking the little guys or multi generations? I have seen a lack of respect, but I have also seen that when children are given expectations of behaviour and the model to learn from, they tend to meet the challenge. Sadly, I come across more sassy children than polite ones. But, then I meet the parents, and I understand

The idea of corporate support is very appealing to me. However, adding any company's or manufacturer's name to the merit badge is just wrong in my opinion. What about a press release stating that this company helped Troop 000 earn Thus and Such MB? What about a thank you note from the Scouts to the corporation? That sounds appropriate, but changing the MB does not.

Thanks again to all I continue to follow this thread, and you all have suggestions and ideas that I am finding helpful and have been passing on to others in the pack, and we are getting really excited about this new year. Your help is greatly appreciated!

I appreciate the help and guidance my fellow Cub Scouters are sharing Last night, and I say this risking sounding like I'm tooting my own horn, I got the nicest compliment. To make a long story short, I've been on the phone, using e-mail, and meeting with a few of our leaders who have been on the verge of quitting but wanted to stay on. This one leader in particular had really had enough. He was feeling stressed, had no help, wanted to stay with the program, felt like he was cheating the boys when he continued on without having his heart in the program. I have been trying to help him--asking him what it would take to help him, to make him feel that he could stay and finish out this year. He is entering the second year of Webelos with his den, a pretty special year. Last night (we've been talking and reviewing ideas and solutions throughout the summer) he said to me, "it just wasn't fun any more. Thank you for your help. I wanted to see my boys bridge, now I can, and you brought the fun back to it." I'm not sure who's "job" it is to build up the leaders, but I just saw a need and went for it. My joy is knowing that I helped in this way. Shoot, noone will ever know...but that's ok. It's for the boys. This man is a good leader, and I'm so happy he is staying on and now looking forward to the year. Thanks for listening. I'm not sure where else I could share what was for me a highlight of the year.

Thank you all so much! This is just super, and I so appreciate your help. Though they don't know it, our boys thank you too

That was eluded to in other earlier articles, but when I contacted council, I was told that there was no new policy for the BSA--only a clearly spelled out non-discrimination policy for LFL. My SE gave me a copy of it. It is the same one that later appeared on national's website. My DE also called me and spoke to me directly on this issue, assuring me that though there are varied thoughts in council (when aren't there in any group?), the council had no desire to go against national and had remained consistent with national and would continue to do so. There has been no new news on the property, but I do hope that is resolved. It's sad, isn't it, when the media is portraying the BSA as local council against national.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

I would like to begin recognizing our boys for special things. For instance, we had our first fundraiser, and one family even put off vacation to take part in it. The boys did a great job, and I'd like to recognize them. Then there are those that made every summer event, and since our pack did not have a July event (3 June events and 1 August to date), we don't qualify for National Summertime Award. I was hoping to qualify so that it would get others excited about summer activities. In lieu of that, what would be appropriate? Or is making up our own awards and/or certificates inappropriate? We've little funds to work with, so free is best, but I'm thinking of ways to best encourage and build up our boys. TIA!

I am thrilled that the boys went on a Cub Family Overnighter and returned with big smiles, fish stories, and lots of happy memories! One of the things that my son liked was the skits and songs around the campfire. I have Sparklers, Cub Songs, and all sorts of neat things here. That's the easy part--getting the materials. I believe in striking while the iron's hot, so since singing and skits were a hit at the camping trip, how best to just add them into a Pack meeting? All ideas welcomed! TIA p.s. This is new to our pack; the boys have not sung before and the leaders' eyes got big when I asked about it. But I'm not shy when it comes to singing, and I used to lead 200 Girl Scouts every summer in song, so I'll tackle this They may groan at my voice, but if they don't like it, they'll just have to get louder!(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Ok, this is great--thanks again. It sounds like we are on the right track. The comm chair does have packmaster, but has not yet begun to use it. Knowing that ScoutNet has this info is news to us both--will contact the registrar next. As for identifying untrained, that's all of us. I do have all the appropriate names of trainers (we have 3 total--I've met them all), but we are told to wait--our situation is known to all who need to know. I have Program Helps, the Program Guide which has next year's training dates & round tables, and several training items as well. We do on-line training though our council does not yet do so. At least we can get the info. I am the one who planned all but one summer activity this summer, and you know what? Noone else will do it. In fact, there's so little help that I planned the camping trip that I didn't even go on. I couldn't this time, but will next year. We hadn't camped in at least 2 years, and the pack was happy to turn that over to me. I was told summer just wasn't very doable, and though it is extremely difficult, we managed a carwash, a picnic, a baseball game, a camping trip. Not bad for all last-minute stuff. We are all in agreement that we will simply plan a year-round calendar for this coming year. Those who can come will have a program. We've had no graduation; we are planning one for next year. Since we've little help now, what I am hoping is that as we organize, it will show that we are organized, and that will draw more to take part in helping out. Let's face it: most don't want to try to plan events or activities without knowing what they are doing, nor do they want to tackle recreating records. So thanks again!

Thanks! By the way, our program is pretty strong on the surface; it's only when you get involved that you realize it's not as organized as it can and should be. I did call our DE, and he is helpful, but only to an extent as he's incredibly busy. I'm not sure how much help he should give, but as I learn about Cubs, it seems the boys come first with den leaders to provide their program. We didn't appear to have anyone supporting and encouraging our den leaders, and I kind of took on that role (I was a volunteer coordinator in another non-profit organization and knew this was a need). Then there's the CM and Asst CM, and the CM likes Cubs and is committed but honestly didn't know there was more to be done behind the scenes and even in making pack meetings more interesting. They are--and he agreed--rather dull. Why? The boys aren't involved. To his credit--again--the CM loved the idea of getting the boys up front. But I am concerned that somehow he was not told what he needed to know, that the communication within the pack was tough, but that the communication from pack to those who could direct/help didn't seem to be there at all. Being told to wait to fall is frustrating. Do I understand why? Yes, I do; there are far too few trainers. I asked. Does that make it easier to function without training though? No, it does not. Our den leaders have asked me where they can get training. I'm kind of the "know-it-all" (not a hat I like to wear), and I've been directing them to sources of on-line training and to the Cubmaster Leader book--a book that noone knew existed. You see, I don't think the pack should be unaware of these things. But, it is, so now--how to most effectively prepare and move forward until these answers are provided during training is my concern. You both haven given me great ideas. Thanks so much! By the way--any more? Keep them coming

I am the Assistant Cubmaster of our pack, and it was after the Blue & Gold that I filled this position. The history of our pack is that pretty much everything stops once the B&G is held. However, that's when I became busiest--checking out what we can do, which leaders will stay on, recruiting, etc. Our Cubmaster does not have the time to do any of this, and we did not have a committee chair at the time. We now have a committee chair, and she and I work closely together. We, and all den leaders, are currently untrained and waiting on training--told we must wait until fall. What we have done is to pore over all resources in book form and on-line to see what we should be doing and how to improve what we are doing. I have become close to all den leaders. We were on the verge of losing some, and I'm happy to say that they are now staying. They were tired, frustrated, and in need of support. I am working with the troop to secure den chiefs for this coming year. I have put up a website with our calendar and some general info; it can and hopefully will grow. Some things that have come to light that we'd like to "fix": There are no records kept of attendance, advancement, dues paid, etc. UNLESS the den leader chose to do this on his/her own. I have a pack planner; what else should we have? There are no copies of the enrollment forms kept by the pack. That means we have no contact info, no health forms. To fix that now is rather late in the year, but heading into the new year: how do re-registered boys get handled? I'm told there is no form to fill out. If we need one, I'll create it--no problem. But am I just missing it? Our DE will be coming to round up, whenever that might be (I'm getting a little nervous with no date planned), so we will have help for new Cubs. But not for those currently registered. Not one den leader knew that there were program helps, round table, training courses (once a year, but still...), or what paperwork they might need. They are great leaders! But you can see now why they'd be frustrated, right? What would your advice be to our current situation? I know that I am not the right person to handle this, but in all honesty, someone has to. Our DE and Unit Comm are aware of our circumstances, but in spite of my begging (yes, I've begged ) since this past March, we remain--IMO--in a rather precarious position. To his credit, our CM took the reigns of this pack when it would have folded had he not done so, and he's kept it going as CM for 6 years now. However, he's busy and having difficulty keeping up, and he's happy to let me do as much as possible. My disclaimer: This is not a complaint nor a criticism; it is simply the way it is. I just love the people involved at all levels, but they can't always help in *my* timeframe.

FYI about ziploc bags. My son is only just 11, and he isn't a real big kid...yet However, he likes his clothes big and baggy. So, they didn't fit into 1 gallon bags well at all. However, I found 2 1/2 gallon ziplocs at Walmart that are PERFECT for packing a day's worth of clothing. Nice and roomy. Somehow though, even with his clothing bagged up by day, he didn't bring home his socks. And I thought it was the dryer that was eating them...sigh...

scoutmom, could it just be that this is the way your son "adjusted" to a new experience? Some kids get homesick. Maybe yours just came home not liking camp--as in not liking being away or it not being what he expected or it being too uncomfortable, etc. I have a son who tells me he is missing a friend of his (they were never close!) every time something major happens in his life. It's not really the problem he has, but it's easier to say that than to try to grasp and deal with whatever else is going on (dad out of work, cousin with cancer, moving). Also, if he didn't like the food, it could be that he was just plain hungry When my son came home from camp, he was telling me how things went, and one of the things I learned was that one boy forgot shirts. He went up in his Scout uniform shirt, but he didn't have one other shirt with him--oops!

scoutldr--your post made me laugh. My husband and I both ended up never reaching our goals in Scouting due to troops folding. So, awards aside, we just go for the boys vs girls issue He will not take me up on the challenge to see who can pitch a tent faster--me or him--and I think he's afraid to beat by a girl. Yes, I'm kidding, but I could kick butt when I was in Girl Scouts and we would see who could pitch fastest. It was fun. But I digress...along with all the rest of us on this thread--lol!

I had the opportunity to help out behind the scenes some for our day camp, and part of what I did was to separate out the medical forms from the enrollment forms, checking that each boy and leader has a medical. Then, the woman handling the paperwork made a list of who needed medicals, and as the boys who arrived at the first day of camp, the parents of those missing them were asked to fill them out. Those that had already been filled out were reviewed prior to the start of camp, taking note of special needs and allergies. I'm not sure how--or if--the den leaders knew if there were problems, but I do know that every time a boy was sent to the nurse, his form was pulled immediately.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Thank you scoutldr.

Eamonn, I find this fascinating as I have no clue what a District Chair is. My most frequent contact as Asst Cubmaster is the DE. He only recently told me who our Unit Comm was, but I don't know who anyone else is other than the SE. Is it possible to give a brief description of the District Chair? By the way, what I want in any position is to know who the person is and when I should give them a call. If you haven't noticed with this post alone, I obviously don't know who's who, and that has created problems. Knowing who to direct certain questions to would be very beneficial, and then having that person follow up on phone calls would be even better yet

I was thinking similarly to Bob White. It might be best to simply offer those who want to know a list of requirements for each award. That takes the personal opinion issue out of the discussion, and insteand relies on facts alone. If, after checking out the requirements, a person wants to pursue discussion with opinions, you have more to work with. My boys are in the BSA, and my husband and I registered as leaders too. I was a Girl Scout. Funny thing about that: the boys automatically assume that they must do cooler things than I did What I did as a Girl Scout honestly can't be compared. I vividly remember cake decorating, and I can't see that in Boy Scouts--lol! Now, I also learned knots and how to pitch a tent and numerous outdoor skills. That was a blast, and I've already challenged my boys to see who can do better--a boy or a girl--but they've yet to take me up on that. It's for fun only, and I get a kick out of it. But my recollections of Girls Scouts are that there are far too many differences to fairly compare the two. Each boy and each girl who earns the top award has the right--IMO--to be quite proud of that. Welcome to the boards

Since he's not sure, and since he's an honest kid, be honest right back with him. Scouting appeals to him--why? Just the fun? Does he understand that there is more to it? Be honest with him on the issue of God. Let him know the risk he takes if he decided he cannot have some sort of faith in God. This will enable him to make a better, more informed decision about Scouting. I personally don't find it surprising that any child--or adult for that matter--at times questions the existence of God. However, he should begin to decide what he believes. He should know that his beliefs have consequences too. If, once you lay it out for him, he is still ready to join Scouting, then he does so knowing he may risk not being able to stay with it should he decide against God's existence. Assuming, of course, that he can currently acknowledge some form of God now so that he may take the Oath in honesty.

Coming from a mom Wow! What gall she has. It sounds like it's time to talk with the troop guide and encourage him that it is HIS job to know whether the boy has passed or not, and that if the mom has a problem with that to please speak to the SM or Committee Chair. He should not even have to speak to the mom, but it sounds like she is going to be where she shouldn't be no matter what. That does NOT mean that the troop leaders must sign off on requirements though. This boy may have a SM conference soon too. Would this be a good time to ask him what he feels his accomplishments are? What areas he thinks he can improve in? No mom, just him and the SM, and see if you can get him to examine himself. Who knows where that may lead? Poor kid--it's not an enviable place he's in. As for mom, it's time to talk to her too. The requirements are not signed by a parent giving the ok, but rather by the leaders--youth and adult. Maybe she is unaware of this, but she needs to hear it again. Think of this way: her son was passed on those swimming requirements, but he cannot swim. What happens when he goes on the water and his canoe tips? Not only is he endangered, but so are the others. After all, he is considered a swimmer, but he is not a swimmer. This was NOT in his best interests. Nor was it in mom's. Now, take it a step further. He goes white water rafting or to another camp or some type of water activity. He doesn't pass the swimming test. Won't he be rather embarrassed? After all, he is a swimmer according to his mom--but he isn't. I have not been with Scouts long enough to know how to handle this, but I think it's time to set the record straight. Give backing to all who need it, letting them know they do not sign requirments per anyone else's say so, but that they do so as they learned--by the Scout demonstrating, explaining, etc. Let the youth leaders know that you will back them; this mom will go further. Let the Scout know and let the mom know that this is the way it works. If they don't like it, well, tough Seriously, if they don't, that is their problem. Passing a boy as a swimmer who is not a swimmer is not a light issue--at least not in my book. Update us please.