Laurie

Thanks Twocubdad. That's a good idea. Our boys going into first year Webelos already love camping. In fact, when one just celebrated his birthday, he did so with a campout (tent, fire, cooking over the fire) in his backyard. I suspect we'll be doing that soon, and one of the other's boys is planning on it too I'll look into our resident camp for next year.

Our district camporee is for Boy Scouts only. However, the second year Webelos are invited to attend the day-time activities. Our troop held a camping trip just for the second year Webelos. It was cabin camping (we later learned that this troop is usually tent camping) and a parent was required to come with the Webelo. For our Webelos, this is often their first camping experience, so what you describe sounds like fun but a much for these guys. Now that we know our Webelos are often unprepared for camping, we are working on having more Webelos camping trips with the pack beginning this year. The goal is to help the boys be prepared for the more challenging camping trips our troop regularly has.

Jeff--thank you for that idea. That will work out just fine for us, and it addresses what concerned some people. Noone minds giving me the info; they are more concerned with where it goes after that. So, I can easily check for signatures and dates, then put the forms in the envelope and seal it until/unless needed. Cards w/allergy info: I'll tuck them into the first aid box so they'll be handy. Until recently our pack didn't have a first aid box, but that's been taken care of. Now, it's moving on to the paper work for me while leaving the leaders to have fun with the boys

Thanks for the update. This sounds like a good end to the story...or perhaps a good beginning to a new chapter of the scouting experience for these boys.

I may be new to the BSA and to these forums, but I have to wonder if the bickering and choosing sides that is taking place is setting a good example. This thread began about recruiting, but it's now beginning to look like a popularity contest. That is something I know that our pack and our troop discourages. Most of us are part of the BSA, and that should unite us, even when we might be in disagreement over some parts of the program/policies.

Recruiting...my sons were both won over to Cub Scouting with a patch! Such a simple little thing, but so appealing to them. Funny thing is: once they each joined, they cared less about the patch than the program. Another boy recruited them, so I'm in agreement with the person who said for the boys to do the recruiting. My older son was very sure he wanted to join Cubs, but he was a little unsure of what would happen in Boy Scouts. He attended the Webelos/Boy Scout trip, and he was hooked. It was the boys that really got him excited. Permission slip... What should be included on a permission slip? I have drafted a couple different versions, but I'm not sure what is best. Insurance... No, Bob, I didn't think you side-stepped the issue. My understanding is that policies may vary somewhat from council to council.

I don't know what the best knife might be, but when our Bears learned to whittle and earned their Whittlin' Chip, the den leader gave each one a Cub Scout knife. The boys had such big smile just because they could use a knife, but when each was given his own those smiles were bigger than I thought possible I am not the den leader, but I help at most meetings. For this meeting, we had 4 adults supervise 6 boys--and we could have used 6 adults. The assistant den leader purchased a heavy leather glove--3 pair--and each boy wore a glove on the hand that wasn't wearing the knife. Since knives did slip, this was ended up saving the boys from cuts that night. Have fun!

BSA470 said: " Anyone have ideas on how to get parents to realize we need to kno since the adults are responsible and if they ever get hurt they could die because of a medicine complication. Ultimaetly it is a betrayal when parents lie to those taking care of their child." I'm not sure you can do that other than to let them know the reason for asking the questions in the first place. Our Pack has not collected health histories (even during registration), and when I came on board, I thought we needed to be more careful in our record keeping. However, in planning a camping trip for the Pack, I ran across some issues. One family has a member attending who takes cancer drugs; they don't want that known. That's an example. The question asked of me is "why". I tell any adult to fill out the form with the info they are comfortable providing BUT to be aware that this could create problems. For instance, an incomplete medical form could mean turning a child/leader away from camp. If the adult is signing the form for themselves or their child, isn't it their right to provide the info they feel is appropriate? My questions, after reading all of this, is this: 1. How do we as leaders encourage the filling out of medical histories? AND... 2. Keep these records safely from prying eyes? AND... 3. As leaders, get the info we do need (such as food allergy on a picnic) but not intrude into info we don't need (I don't need to know that a leader is on birth control pills for example). Also, do the kids really get to keep their own non-emergency meds with them? I'd be afraid of other kids getting into it. At the same time, I honestly don't want to dose it out either, nor do I believe I should. Since I am collecting these forms from adult leaders, parents going to camp, and youth alike right now, I appreciate your help.

Has this boy always been this way--uninterested in anything in particular? What is his reason for coming to Scouts? If he is coming for any reason other than being "made to", then he IS interested in something. You mentioned that you don't think his parents are ready for professional help. Remember, the mom came to you, so she opened the door to your suggestions and assistance. You are doing her a service if you share with her your opinion, telling her that you are limited in helping him, but that you will do what you can. 15 was a tough age for me, and that was a long time ago now. I had wonderfully supportive parents, and I did well in everything I got involved in, but part of what caused struggles for me were issues like this: 2 schoolmates committed suicide that year, 1 friend was kidnapped (I was involved in the find), many were involved in drugs, there was pressure on me to get involved in drugs and alcohol. It took it's toll. At age 16, a wonderful man--a youth leader--was able to talk with me about a lot of this. What he did helped. He ASKED me questions about me and he then LISTENED. He was genuine, made sure it was ok with my parents that we meet for lunch, made a point of following up on how things were going with me--just simply cared. Did life get easier? No. More stuff happened--and it was hard. But I shudder to think what path I'd have taken had someone who had no reason to care shown a personal interest in me--in my feelings rather than my accomplishments, in my thoughts rather than my actions. You are a good person to care about this boy, and you are most likely doing far more good than you may ever know. Hang in there, and God bless you for caring so much for this young boy!

The Scout showed a lapse in judgement, acting immature, didn't actually hurt anyone. I agree. However, please correct me if I am wrong. The Totin' Chip is earned in order to give the boy the privilege (and I do consider this a privilege) of carrying and using wood tools. I have read in the requirements that this can be taken away if the Scout does not show responsibility in using his tools. Would it be a bad idea for this boy to go through the training again to re-earn his Totin' Chip?

I've no experience with this, but my first thought was to remove the knife and totin' chip from him immediately. I'm glad you did that. It certainly seems appropriate. As to what to do next. Do you have a policy regarding discipline? Our troop had adopted a policy in writing, with verbal warnings, then written warnings, then meetings with the parent(s) and scout, then removal for a period of time. However, depending upon the severity of the problem, the issue may warrant more severe consequences more quickly. ie Beating up a fellow scout (physical harm has been done) would be more serious than speaking disrespectfully (which could be harmful but often is not--though it's wrong). As a parent (a mom to boot--as moms I know we tend to be overprotective), I believe the parents of the surprises scouts have valid concerns. It is not your leadership that is being called into question, but rather the continued participation of a boy who posed a threat. I look forward to what others say--this is a great place for info. Please keep us updated, and I'm terribly sorry for this experience in your troop.

I don't earn a paycheck, and I haven't done so for 12 years now. I'm a stay-at-home mom. During the past 12 years as a SAHM, some of my volunteer experience was serving as teacher's aide, chaperone, pre-school bible teacher, elementary sunday school teacher, crisis pregnancy counselor, treasurer of 2 local non-profits, and chairman of the board of another. My working experience was almost always office manager and/or accounting (they were often combined). While working, I was also a volunteer: Girl Scouts, Young Life, Word of Life, big sister program (not THE Big Sister Program but one similar), stats/paper work for various orgs, and church youth leader for middle and senior high school. That was for 13 years prior to baby. (Sheesh...I'm getting old when I count back so far and haven't reached my sandbox days ) Currently, my only volunteer time goes to Cubs and Boy Scouts (Assistant Cubmaster, Troop Committee Member, and Cub Webmaster), and I chase an almost-2-year-old about the house My husband is a computer consultant, has been for 13 years, but has been out of work for too long. He's very into Scouting though! We are currently living off his e-business (and learning lots about being thrifty), which is the sale of tube amplifier parts--something which I know nothing about. But then, until he talked me into going on-line, I knew nothing of that either. He is regretting that move Thanks for this message board--love the ideas and feedback I get here (This message has been edited by Laurie)

I left something out--I'm totally in favor of women in the BSA. It is my own decision to have men take the lead when it comes to the boys. We happen to have many men involved; to me that's a good thing, but I understand it's not always possible. With all due respect, I think the only constant is change in society/the world; the values of the BSA certainly seem to have remained constant to me. Here's why I say that: 30 years ago when my parents were leaders and my brother began Scouting (he's an Eagle )what took place in pack meetings and then troop events seems to be quite the same as what my sons experience now. At that time, my mom and several other women served at the pack and troop leadership level. Honestly, I have not seen change--not from the role of sister then as mother/leader in scouting. My parents remain in leadership, though in less active roles now, and they see their grandsons now doing what their son did so long ago. But, maybe I'm missing something and it has changed though I personally haven't observed any change. I'm open to hearing what that change(s) might be.

Our Cubmaster said he gets some of his most positive feedback from single moms (regardless of how they ended up single moms) who like that their sons have a positive male role model in their life. I'm the Assistant Cubmaster, and the Cubmaster may move on when his son bridges, but my own opinion is that it would be great to have another man in leadership. As a woman, I can not give the boys what a man can: a *male* role model. A good one, yes (at least I hope so). As part of the troop, I said right up front that I'd love to help, but that I'd like to be available in the ways that would free our male leadership up to interact more with the boys. I said this for the same reason expressed above. That said, I think it's a good thing for the boys to see both men and women working together, and they may only get to see that in a positive light within Scouting. I was a youth leader to highschoolers at age 17, right after graduating high school. Though I was trained, to answer your question, no--IMO it is not a good idea at all for a young woman to have a leadership role to young men. I had boys in my charge who were 18 though still in school, many who were bigger than me (I got picked up and tossed into a pool once--it was funny, but I'm not small--this guy was big!), and many who wanted to challenge me. These teen boys did not respect my authority at all. However, my male co-leader had their respect. It's a tough age for both males and females, and it can be downright awkward to have a young female in leadership over a young male. How, though, does this relate to the homosexual issue being discussed?

This is fun Sparkie--the idea sharing We do not give much out to the boys, and that is due to finances. They do get advancements during the school year, but during the summer, pack meetings must stop due to so few leading and attending. Our boys received day camp patches from camp--loved it and loved the patch. I asked the CM if we could now afford (after our recent fundraiser ) to do something special to recognize our boys. They did an exceptionally good job, and I believe they should be acknowledged before the pack. He agreed, and he'd like to have custom patches done up as well. Additionally, I'd like to have the boys who attended summer camp and ran the first fundraiser open up the first regular pack meeting. Again, CM agrees. I like the poster idea. In thinking ahead, I'm very much in favor of using the reading patches, one or two sports patches, and the family activity book. The boys all have required summer reading, and if they share some info on their books with the dens/packs, we'd be reinforcing what school is doing. They'd get a cool patch too, and our boys love patches. The sports--most are involved in some sort of sport already. The BSA Physical Fitness might be a good idea, or perhaps focusing on a couple of the Sports and Academics belt loops. Summer seems perfect for this, and to me, it is very doable and adds a tangible object to the activity. I'd like to see the boys claim bragging rights all they can. Reading is a big deal to me because of 6 boys in one den, only 1 did not need help reading his Bear book. More thoughts? Anyone else too? TIA!!

Bob, what do you disagree with? Just curious. This is my first and only exposure to Boy Scouts with the exception of my brother being in Scouting a good 20+ years ago.

Thank you Sparkie! I wanted to be clear on the requirements, and you sure helped with that. Thanks for the encouragement too. Actually, my greatest disappointment is that so many of our boys are missing out. My hope is that the boys who went to summer camp, took part in the picnic & ballgame & fundraisers & camping will be so excited about what they've done and earned that it will get others interested enough to come out next year during the summer. If enthusiasm is catchy, these few boys have lots of it

Thanks Pack I love what Scouting is doing for my son. He is truly happy with everything he does, and as long as he keeps moving forward in some way, I'm happy with that too. He stunned me when he announced he wants Eagle. Short-term goals are avoided by him; this is a long-range goal and not exactly easy. I've said nothing other than "let me know how I can help if I can help along the way". He wants to go the Jamboree in 2005, so we looked up info on it. His goal is to have First Class by then so he is eligible. Emphasis on *his goal*. He is a happy boy, and I've been waiting a long time to see him find his place to feel good about himself. Scouting is doing just that for him. My purpose in posting originally was to see what experienced folks in Scouting think of how he's begun his experience. I'm new too, so having this kind of feedback helps. p.s. I'm recording lots of memories. One that is etched in my memory is one of the times he arrived home from camp, looking as if he were wearing a good portion of the campsite! The only bright things about him were his smile and the sparkle in his eyes. Another is the time he pitched a tent on ice--all he could talk about was how uncomfortable sleeping was but how cool the trip was--the entire time with a big goofy grin on his face. Fun--yep, plenty of it (This message has been edited by Laurie)

About the merit badges. He took Fingerprint with the troop when a police officer came to help with it. Nature is the only merit badge approved for him with the exception of summer camp merit badges. Those are the oceanography, astromony, and a couple others that he's talking to the SM tonight about. Second class: he's earned most of the camping-related items, helped with SM approval on an Eagle project to earn service hours, and has earned the danger of drug use item. First class: camping-related, lashings, knots items have been earned or are currently being worked hard on. Swimming is his biggest issue with these, and we (as in his parents) and his SM agree that summer camp may be an excellent opportunity to work on that. I think he's doing well. He is a hands-on kid who struggles with school because he bores pretty easily with book work. Scouts is exciting to him, and my hope is that as he continues to work, to help, to earn, to see progress that this will spill over into other areas of his life. I should add that his SM discourages more than one MB at a time during the first year (with the exception of summer camp), and that the counselors (most of whom attend troop meetings) have every other week to work with the boys. The recommendation is to work one week on a MB, one week on advancement. Until a MB was asked for, it was all advancement. The boys are gently reminded to work on advancement with questions about what they've been doing (how did that service project go? did you tackle that knot? etc)(This message has been edited by Laurie)

May I jump in here with a question? Our pack has tried in the past (prior to my involvement) to keep the pack going during the summer months. However, most leaders coach baseball and most boys play it, and baseball here is a full-time event. As Assistant Cubmaster, I'm doing plenty that our Cubmaster simply doesn't have time for, and one thing we agreed on was to try out summer activities again. We had 4 in June: the annual picnic (8 Cubs of 38), minor league baseball game (8 Cubs), Day Camp (6 Cubs), and a carwash (6 Cubs). We have 1 for July: a follow up carwash; we were invited back. We expect about 6 Cubs. In August we are camping, and have 7 Cubs signed up. Of those numbers, 3 of the boys are from the same den (which is 6 boys total) and they are doing everything. Does our den qualify? The pack is having activities, even though only 1 den is active. We set up a website to have a calendar for easy reference; den leaders have made 2-3 calls to each family for reminders; invitations were issued to all families. Still, this is it.

The following is a list of the highlights of what our son had accomplished since bridging to Boy Scouts in February at age 10. His only other Scouting experience was Webelos II, and he loved it. Family debate: one of us says he's not motivated enough; the other says he's doing very well. Thoughts from experienced Scouters? By the way, it's not our call to make, but we want to encourage our son without pushing, manipulating, or the like. TIA February: 1st camping trip & 1st month as Scout March: 2nd camping trip & some Tenderfoot requirements April: 3rd camping trip; some Tenderfoot; began Totin' Chip (he asked for this & his whole patrol did it) May: 4th camping trip; some Tenderfoot; finished Totin' Chip; earned Fingerprint MB June: no camping trip (due to summer camp expenses); some Tenderfoot; earned all of Fireman Chit (he asked for this & his whole patrol did it); began Nature MB (he asked for a blue card & several others are working this with him now); helped new but older Scout to learn his knots and helped him out by showing him how to use the Scout handbook, etc. July 1 (today): planning ahead to summer camp with goals of learning to swim, doing Astonomy and Oceanography at camp(not sure of other MBs yet); finishing Tenderfoot this month. Summer camp is the 5th camping trip in 6 months.

Thanks for all the help. The Committee Chair and DE are working on this now, and we hope to have it resolved, with no hurt feelings if that's possible, soon. We don't know much about this boy as his own parent/family member has not been met by anyone--even the friend's family who paid his registration. Being involved with our Troop, if he should be enrolled there, he'll be part of a great Troop. When I know anything definitive, I'll update. The advice is much appreciated

Caps--wouldn't work with our bunch. Good idea, but only if the boys would keep them on. Cups--I like that. We were really pushing the water with the boys, and if they could clip their cups on, that would be cool and functional.

Thank you so much--what a nice thing for you to say! I am located in the same state as you as part of the Cradle of Liberty Council. Anything that makes the boys--my own and any of the Cubs--happy and proud makes me believe my time was well spent. To be part of that is what prompted me to be a leader. Thanks again for the nice welcome

Patches: Eamonn, you asked if they are important. One boy that I'm aware of went to day camp and got a patch last year. He recruited my son to cubs by showing him the "cool patch from camping" that he got. My son wanted to have a chance to get one too (and one thing led to another, and he's now beginning his 2nd year of cubs). I noticed quite a few of the boys eyeing the patches that had been left out while beginning camp, and they couldn't wait to get one. IMO, yes, they do matter. To the boys, if not to us Oh, but we do not have a patch for every event--only for Day Camp and Resident Camp.(This message has been edited by Laurie)