John-in-KC

Well, What techniques of instruction do you want youth to learn?

Anyone wanna bet National IT screws up and the badge is not live in ScoutNet on the 12th?

First, bad URL. This works: http://www.scouting.org/Training/Adult/Supplemental/InterfaithService.aspx Second, I like the guidance in the training module much, much better than what had been in the Scouts' Own: Attendance at an Interfaith Service Participation at an interfaith service should be a voluntary, uplifting experience for Scouts and leaders. It should be a friendly, welcoming experience for all. There should never be coercion or criticism concerning participation or nonparticipation in an interfaith service. Some religions do not support the participation of their members in Interfaith Services. Some religions obligate their members to participation in a specific religious service; consequently, participation in an interfaith service may not meet this obligation. Some individuals may choose to participate in the interfaith service and also in a service of their own faith. I'm still not thrilled with promoting the Scout Law to the level of Holy Writ.

I've done a day or two of adult education, student and instructor. Learning styles matter. Some need only read the book, and they can do the skill. Some need not read, but need to see with their eyes, and they can do the skill. Some must be guided by a live person demonstrating. Some require a little practice, some require a lot. As I've said elsewhere, there is nothing new in EDGE, it's simply a way to organize the TRAINER to train a skill. Trust me, I can show you the Army "how to train" toolbox ... but I really do not think you want me to. It'll make you hurl for the bureaucracy.

For once I agree with Baden P wholeheartedly. Let the families be the cornerstones of faith ... whatever tradition that be. Give youth access to and encourage them to undertake the religious emblems program. Each major faith community has pretty good literature for themselves. Do ask your program principals to survey their units ... you may be rather focused in the faith groupings of youth, or you may be very diverse. The more diverse you are the more a "generic service" risks offending someone. If both units have a strong core of youth leaders, you might sit down with them and see how they want to approach matters.

E92, Frankly, I think this is a matter to be looked at with careful youth leadership research of the Orders' program materials. A 4 way business meeting between the Chief, the Professional Adviser, the Lodge Adviser, and the Supreme Chief of the Fire is in order. Let the Chief make a recommendation; allow the SE (who is at the end of the day accountable to National and the community through his board) sign off on it. BTW, can someone cite me in OA program materials where parents must be allowed attendance? I know where they must be allowed access to information.

Ed, The current Ordeal is so namby-pamby that it's almost a lovefest. In 1970, when I Ordealed, by current standards, some of the things the Ordeal team did pushed the envelope of hazing. Note I said by current standards. By 1970 standards, they were all in-bounds.

A very brief google search has yielded nothing on EDGE that does not source back to BSA. I spent a few years on the platform as an Army schoolhouse instructor. The Army uses a modification of Taylorism (scientific analysis of tasks) to train folks: Task, Condition, and Standard. It's enshrined in our Systems Approach to Training, or in university speak: Instructional Systems Development. I will say the 4 step learning process of EDGE dovetails nicely with how the Army trains skills. Whatever the skill is, you have to introduce it to the learner. You demonstrate it. You walk them through in a relatively sterile enviornment. Finally, you do it full up. I care not that the skill is taught in a schoolhouse or a unit. The process is age-old, the buzzword is new.

1) Having time to love my God, to understand He is good, and that a consequence of His gift of salvation is there are useful/fun things for me to do. 2) Having time to love my son, to listen to the music he makes, and to know he is getting the key points of young adulthood. 3) Having time to be friends with many, to enjoy hobbies and activities with them. 4) Having time to be in the outdoors, whether it be a campout, a workday, or a lazy afternoon listening to the sounds of the forest. 5) Being able to listen to the great music of the age. I've come to truly enjoy wind band and brass band. 6) Having the skill to cook a medium rare Porterhouse, fresh corn on the cob, and a salad!

What does the Operations Guide, or any other current program document, say? As I've said elsewhere, the 1965 OAHB said the materials were available for inspection on request, and **any** question asked was to be answered completely, to interested parties.

Yes, Ma'am!!

Personally, I prefer the approach of SMT224. I also note that the mandatory exercise skirts exceedingly fine the following guidance of the National Council: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Hazing prohibited. Physical hazing and initiations are prohibited and may not be included as part of any Scouting activity. "Bullying prohibited. Verbal, physical, and cyber bullying are prohibited in Scouting. "Constructive discipline. Discipline used in Scouting should be constructive and reflect Scoutings values. Corporal punishment is never permitted." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If a parent chooses to complain to the Professional Service or the Chartered Partner, you've not helped yourself.

There is a forum of serving and retired officers and senior NCOs on facebook. Let me be blunt: We have no more a clue of what the real mission is, or what right looks like, than any of you ... and many of the folks on that forum are still being paid to practice the profession of arms. Right now, we see: - We are the Libyan Rebel Air Force. - We have "tennis shoes on the ground" in CIA officers trying to assess the rebellion. - Our "unique capabilities" include the AC-130 gunship and the A-10 Thunderbolt II Close Air Support bird. - POTUS wants Q gone, but he's unwilling to invest the military energy to make that happen. - We think our "vital national interests" (reasons we are willing to go to war) now include assisting a rebellion, as long as the country in rebellion lacks bases we're using. - AND, OBTW, what about the Ivory Coast/Yemen/Bahrain/Syria ad infinitum Cynical? You betcha. Some of the best minds I know are scratching hard to make sense of all this.

No, but too often, youth standards are sub-par. A ceremony is theater, and the audience are the entrants. The theater must be nailed to the wall. The consequence of failure to do so is distraction, and distraction lowers the added value. That in turn is important when folks are tired, this is part of the first impression of the Order upon them. Sometimes, the young thespians have to be given a failing grade and told to try again.

If the committee cannot reach a consensus decision, then it's time for the CC, the SM, and the dissenter to have a business visit with the COR. The Chartered Partner is the licensee of record, it owns the unit. When the COR makes a decision, it's done.

The assumption of your diagram is irrational. People are not necessarily rational.

Oak Tree ... Was that comment meant for the selecting adults to OA thread or the Scouting's Honor Society thread?? For adults, selection to OA is not to be an honor. It's a question of adding value to the unit and the lodge.

Yes. Minimum Safe Distance and Collateral Damage Distance can be functions of nuclear radiation, thermal radiation, or blast, depending on the yield of the warhead and the height of burst. Prefix 5 forever.

If units really paid 1/10 of the attention to LEADER SELECTION that folks pay to the UNIFORM METHOD... There are more important issues out there.

It's not as though Richard B didn't warn us Patrol Outings were going away... http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=301715&p=3 I'll go throw up now.

What OGE asked, dagnabbit! ???

As stated... and an adult is nominated for the value he will add to both the Lodge and the Troop by being a Scouter and an Arrowman. OBTW: Not only does the unit nominate, the Lodge validates.

Well, Eagle1973 asked... My $0.02: When the National Council got hit upside the head by its liability insurers on a policy review or lost a liability lawsuit, something hit the publication. Scouters who are attorneys? Professional Service folk? Volunteers who are Safety professionals? Your thoughts???

I know this. As a youth member, election to candidacy was limited. The 1965 OAHB (which I was elected under) had the ratio. These days, if the SM certifies you, and if the Troop elects you, you're a Candidate. Oh ... by the way ... I remember my Tap-Out far more than I remember my pre-Ordeal! Why? Some screaming older Scout scooped me up from behind, runs me down to Allowat Sakima, and KA-WHUMPF!!! goes the hand on my shoulder; yeah, I remember that, 41+years on.

Venividi: AMEN.