John-in-KC

You're on. Tonight when I get home, I will transcribe, word for word, both sides of the tag in my Philmont shorts. I will also describe the BSA fleur-de-lis contained within the "National Council" circle. When I'm done doing that, I will ask a simple question.

The official Scout field and activity uniforms are superb garments for Parlour Scouting. The fabric is absolutely perfect for Parlour Scouting, as is the construction, fit and finish. I'm sure glad the Philmont shorts (made by Columbia) are Official Uniform tagged items (BSA RN 21328). Maybe its time to save my green items for Parlour events, and wear the good stuff the rest of the time.

At my Councils two Reservations, open-toed shoes are an invitation for the Commissioners, Camp PD, Camp Director, or Reservation Director to ask you to ... 1) Return to your camp and get appropriately safe footwear. 2) If needed, leave the reservation and get... I mainly wear field boots in the field; I may wear New Balance gray cross-trainers or Reebok white simple shoes when home. If the occasion justifies it, business shoes. Why? Black absorbs heat... white reflects it. Less heat on my feet, in summer, is a good thing.

To add on to Mr Madkins comments directly above, ... and with cloth, construction, fit, and finish that are perfectly suitable for ... CUE DERISIVE COMMENT FROM Robert Stephenson Smythe Baden-Powell, Lord Baden Powell of Gilwell: "...PARLOR SCOUTING!!!"

Some thoughts just after Weekend 1 as a student ... 1) The leadership psychology/sociology is a good refresher for anyone who's been in the Armed Forces, and is useful: The ground needs to be plowed every few years. It WILL be new to some participants; for others it's old hat. 2) Our patrol seems to largely have bypassed storming, and is at least in norming, if not performing ... but we're also adults, and getting jobs done on deadline is nothing new either. It's fantastic to see the leadership/followership styles in our patrol, and to see the individuals knowing "we will work to the greater good." 3) We got the point of Win All You Can after the mid-course tally, but didn't get the final point until the end. I believe that evn then not every patrol got the point of determining who YOU meant at its broadest interpretation. That said: The game was something of a mind#### (and that is the appropriate word in the English Language imo): To have patrols take on a new identity and then try to have them work to the "good of the order" when you just reinforced their existence as a cellular organization to me defeats the purpose of demonstrating the cells as organs of the body. 4) The dollar value of the food purchase price for weekend 2 camp is UNREALISTIC given that gasoline prices are already trickling into the food chain: Fresh fruits and milk at an Armed Forces Commissary have spiked 10% in the last week, and the Commissary officer says the vendor letters are saying: Cost of transportation energy, and cost of production energy. 5) The de-emphasis on cooking (1 hour to prep/serve/cleanup dinners on weekend 2) SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE to Scouters about leadership and the value of the artist and artisan. Further, in an era where bad food choices are leading to the obesity of America, telescoping mealtime implies "ease of preparation" over "quality of foodstuffs." 6) THE BEST presentation was not one of the curriculum classes: It was the block hosted by the Council Scout Reservation Director and Assistant Director (both former WB course directors in this council) on Conservation. Amazing what happens when you're passionate about the topic, and are willing to let your Council's internal politics hang out for all to see. (I am out-of-Council for this class). 7) Something I saw in October Sky ... One challenge a youth serving program leader has is the PARENT: He or she may not be supportive EVEN WHEN the child makes a superb choice. Our duties as coaches, mentors, and friends become even more important then. Hoot! Hoot Owls! (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Speaking as a BSA Lifeguard, Yes, the requirement is "deep enough to cover." That said, there is the issue of how fast the kid decelerates as he hits water. A lean young man isn't going to stop as fast as a fatter young man. You don't want the young man touching bottom so fast that he injures one of his joints. Use some comon sense in planning where the jump-in point will be. Think safe, not "literal word of requirement."

When I was a Scout (cue fog of past...) We had a couple of favorite campgrounds. We visited them usually 4 times a year. Part of it was one of the Commitee members owned the land. There's nothing wrong with using the same campground over again. One time we used the tents; another time we improvised shelters (someone had access to surplus parachutes. Still a third time we slept under the stars, and left the tents behind. Patrols could do flag football, softball, whatever we chose. Sometimes we had all day cooking contests. Let your imagination work.

Well, my demographics are: Boomer ... 1956. Grew up in Los Angeles of Democratic parents. Lost a good friend to his DWI on the Ventura Freeway at the end of my 10th grade year (he was 3 days from graduating High School). Now live in Kansas City. Am Missouri Synod Lutheran by denomination: Ein Bier, Bitte!!! (in other words we are not teetotalers). Registered Republican in the 1984 presidential election ... WALTER MONDALE??? President???? Am staill a registered Republican (Condi Rice for Prez in 08!) and believe fully in MADD. Now that I've skewed Hunt's curve, anyone else care to bust the balloon? YIS

Obviously, several of us disagree on what constitutes abuse of a minor child. To those who think underage drinking is not abuse, You have to make your own peace in your heart. You are the one who has to look yourself in the eye, and respect the person you see. I trust you will be able to do that should ever a young man in your mentorship as SM, ASM, CC, MC, or Advisor be killed in a DUI wreck where he was the one DUI ... and you knew he was drinking under age. YIS

After reading Eagle Mom's post, I will re-iterate what I said earlier: Every Scouter has access to a youth services expert who can assess the situation in light of local law. That expert has the authority and responsibility, if needed, to call in law enforcement or social services for intervention. The intervention may be needed not only for the youth, but for his parents. Who is that expert? Your Council Scout Executive. We don't know, here, the local law on what an underage person can do in his/her own home, under supervision of parents. As Eagle Mom stated above, there may be parental abuse going on. Report. Set the SM Conference and Eagle BOR aside for the moment. Report. Are we to tolerate abuse of our youth on any level? Is that the intent of YP and G2SS? Report. I have said my piece. You have to be at peace in your own heart.

GB, Considering both the WB student neckerchief as well as the graduate neckerchief come from BSA Supply Corporation, I dispute your comment about the plaid not being part of an official uniform item.

I'm going to recommend four places: First, the H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation near Osceola, Missouri: Official site: http://hoac-bsa.org/Bartle.cfm Some pictures: http://ki0qb.ham-radio-op.net/bartle/pics1.htm http://ki0qb.ham-radio-op.net/bartle/pics2.htm Bartle has three individual camps. Each camp has an operating capacity of 500 Scouts and Scouters. Each camp has its own set of basic activities (pool, Scoutcraft, nature, shooting sports), while certain resources (honor camping, lakefront, and outposts) are supported for the whole reservation. Bartle's camps have been running since 1930. The oldest camp, now called Lone Star, opened then. Camp Sawmill opened in 1955 (it was the original site of the sawmill used for the first construction), and Camp Piercing Arrow opened in the early 1960s. We run six sessions annually. Bartle is the HOAC home of the Tribe of Mic-O-Say. We are finishing up $5 million in recapitalization of Bartle. Second, the Theodore Naish Scout Reservation: http://hoac-bsa.org/Naish.cfm Naish is about to be a wilderness island in Kansas City ... suburbia has encroached. That said, it's the better part of two square miles of Kansas River bluffs and undeveloped backcountry. Naish runs four separate camping programs for the Heart of America Council: - Boy Scout resident camp: 3 sessions of 300 Scouts/Scouters - Webelos resident camp: 10 sessions of 300 Webelos/Scouters Both of these programs are conducted in our Central Camp area. We hold the Boy Scout sessions, then the camp becomes a Webelos camp. - Bear overnight "family" camp: 10 sessions of 200 (100 Cubs/100 parents). Bear camp is a project initiated by Jim Terry, our former SE. It is a separate physical camp on the Naish reservation. We give these young men a fun weekend of water park activities, crafts, shooting sports, and Indian lore. - National Youth Leader Training: One session of 100 Scouts plus support staff. This is the latest iteration of Brownsea. Like Bartle, Naish has just finished a $5 million recapitalization: New dining hall, trading post, pool, health lodge, campfire arena, and program areas. And yes, the Heart of America Council put together a $14 million capital campaign, which funded the recapitalization AND set a perpetual maintenance endowment in place. Please understand, in both the cases of Bartle and Naish: It's CAMP. There's a difference between CAMP and camping to my mind. I'm still mind-boggled, several seasons into serving as a leader or staffer, that youth have TENTS with FLOORS and COTS waiting for them, and that they eat in dining halls. (I grew up using my units' own equipment and cooking by unit in the campsite). Third, there is the camp of my youth: Camp Whitsett, in the Sierra Nevada range of California: Official web site: http://www.bsa-la.org/camping/whitsett/whitsett.html The informal website: http://www.whitsett.org/ Lake Ida: You just cannot say more! Swimming in a lake, doing the Mile Swim, and headquarters camp to three different trail activities: A four day adventure, the Silver Knapsack, and the Powderhorn. Finally, there is Camp Geiger operated by the Pony Express Council, St Joseph, MO: Official site: http://www.ponyexpressbsa.org/06-CampGeiger/CampGeigerBSA.htm Pictures: http://www.kctroop61.org/ new_page_2.htm http://www.fullnet.net/np/troop509/Photos/Summer%20Camp%202002/summercamp2002.htm Geiger is the Pony Express Council home for the Tribe of Mic-O-Say. It's a 7 day camp, and has shown huge flexibility accommodating Troops who have specific timing needs for attendance. My example here is the Troops from Fort Leavenworth and the Army Command and General Staff College. Every June, the graduate student officers complete their training and head back to the Army. Geiger has made sure they are up and running in time for the Scouts in these Army families to get a summer camp in!! Different camps for different Scouts, but I'd recommend all four without hesitation.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I agree with SemperParatus, Scoutnut and OGE. There's enough reason for you to have a closed-door session with your Council Scout Executive. He has the connections and the resources to get a determination of what is legal for the parents to do in their home. If necessary, his reporting can initiate a child abuse investigation. The fact of the matter is a 15 year old is a MINOR in the eyes of the law for most things that happen (certain violent criminal offenses may give him a premature majority). His parents are legally accountable for his actions. Let's not worry about the advancement in Scouting until we've assured the young man is inside the limits of the law, please?

Bingo. Thank you! YIS John

I took Venturer leader training last fall. Very clearly stated: A Boy Scout, First Class, can join a Crew and continue rank advancement to Eagle within the Crew. Advisor does the conferences. Crew Committee does the BORs. It's that simple

Friends, My RT Commish just called. Council STILL does not have the Program Year 2005-6 Boy Scout Program helps available for issue to the Districts. Our Scout Shop (a BSA Supply, Inc store) doesn't have Program Helps, either, and does not know when it will arrive. We're going to have annual RT staff planning session Sunday afternoon. Soooo... Please, would someone here post the monthly themes for the 2005-6 Boy Scout program year??? Thanks very much, in advance. John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I think I'm going to advocate "outdoors safety" as the overarching theme for our District Roundtables in PY 2005-2006. There have been too many incidents in the past four months. No, I'm not advocating wrapping folks in foam so they cannot get hurt. I AM ADVOCATING we use the various practices given us in G2SS, LNT, and various outdoors skills training to ensure our operations, and our youths' operations, are safe going in. YIS. PS: FWIW: Many moons ago, I backpacked a different segment of the John Muir as a youth. We also had a summer thunderstorm. Our leaders had us backtrack 2 miles (losing about 1000 feet in elevation), to a place where risk of a strike was less.

What KS said is very true: A Scoutmaster's first and foremost mission is to his Troop. There are plenty of Scouters in any District/Council who are willing to provide guidance to the Chapter and the Lodge. The other operational advantage is the mean/median and mode age of the Order is generally older than the typical Troop. Young men are willing to take on increased responsibility and authority. That's a good thing

Woujawe, Without crossing the line to safeguarded, go back and look at the Ordeal and Brotherhood ceremonies: Your sentence "No Gods are called on whether christian or pagan" is flat out wrong. I will simply say: READ THE CEREMONIES. You'll see. As for all other folk: I'm a Christian. I've been in the Order since I was 14; I'll be 49 in October. I had no problem whatsoever with my son entering the Order when he was eligible. Remember: Any parent, leader, or clergyman who desires more information about the Order in regard to personal or denominational religious beliefs may contact the local Council. The professional staff (and the volunteer Advisors of the lodge) will go to great lengths to deal with mis-perceptions.

Alice the Camel... The Song that Never Ends Up in the Air, Junior Cubman Itsy-bitsy-teenyweenie-little green Froggy Games... I spy... Alphabet licenses Alphabet number combinations And depending on how wound up the kids are on the way home, there's always the option of .... let them fall asleep. Have fun!!!

One historic troop in my area wears purple tabs on the epaulets. Our District awards red/white/blue tabs to those Scouts/Venturers who do 3 Flag Openings at District or Council events (RT, annual business meeting, district dinner, ad infinitum). One of our two Council camps annually does special tabs for adult and youth staff.

As a Committee Chairman, My troop had a "discipline/consequences" policy. It was all adult, no youth leadership, and designed to push Scouts out the door. We're not quite done with the 2d generation. It is premised on: - The Scout Oath. - The Scout Law. PL/ASPL/SPL have first responsibility and authority. Most cases of youth being youth are best handled at this level. IF the conduct rises to the attention of the Scoutmaster, he holds a Scoutmaster's Conference to lay it out. IF the conduct continues, we'll convene a Board of Review ... but we will insist the parents attend. BTW, if we reach the BOR stage, then the parents HAVE to train up as leaders. Yes, I mean the whole shooting match: FS, YP, NLE (common core), NLE (SM specific and Committee Challenge), MB Counselor, AND they have to regularly attend meetings and outings. If a parent is unwilling to be a leader under these circumstances, then the SM and CC reserve the right to ask him/her to transfer the child to another Troop. One thing I've noticed: When parents use the Troop as the Baby Sitters of America, the youth is often more likely not to understand his responsibilities to his Patrol and Troop. There are actions where we tell Scouts and parents the SM has authority to send a youth home from a campout or a camp: Damage to people and/or damage to property are the big line crossers. Obviously restitution is a consequence of property damage; getting youth to work through their differences (Thorns and Roses) in a different environment is part of dealing with people problems. YIS(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

The youth in my Lodge do several things: Elangomats have distinctive T-shirts while on duty. I do not know at what point they get to keep those shirts as their own. Elangomats can earn a coup for their coup thong or necklace: http://hoac-bsa.org/Coup_Thong.cfm I think part of the problem we don't train our young Arrowmen on WHY elangomats are needed! An elangomat wears at least two hats: He sets an EXAMPLE by repeating his Ordeal. He's a work crew LEADER, responsible for the safety, output, and cheefrul service of his candidates. So, train your arrowmen. If your Lodge has a fall fellowship or winter banquet, those are ideal opportunities. My two cents is only worth 1/2 cent these days. It's you who are under 21 who have to effect the change. I gave up my right to that in 1976.

The footlocker looks an awful lot like the shell of a Military-Specification computer hardware transit case. If this is the source of Supply Corporation's design, trust me ... airline baggage handlers can bash them to smithereens, just as easily as any other luggage.

Agree with NWScouter. This is one of the things I talk about with First Class Scouts making Star, and Star making Life at Boards of Review. I ENCOURAGE THEM to not use too many "grouped" merit badges for their advancement. Why? Because: If a youth is following the program, he's OVER HALFWAY on the Eagle required list when he makes Life. If he does what NWS described, then he's got an uphill road to get his Eagle Requireds done.