John-in-KC

Lisa, This is where all the District Committee folk, and the Commish staff, need to work their professional contacts. Knights of Columbus, Masonic, Rotary, Lions, VFW, Legion, various university faculty senates, all are places where volunteers can be found. Some of it involves having a "speakers bureau", if you will, who can go out there and share the things Scouting does for the community. Yes, let's be blunt: We're not going to get a flood of folks knocking down the doors. But if we don't even have a trickle, it all goes dry. Someone in your District is a professional salesperson. He's the first person to contact, to help you build a pitch that will touch hearts and minds. Does this make any sense? John

Oh, Lord, can you see the environmental impact report? What would happen if we bought additional plateau acreage at Philmont for this? Would the environment be able to take quadrennial surge of folks into a semi-sized city?

If closed membership is wrong, why do we have LDS specific units in all the programs? The only restriction on the Chartered Partner is they may not prosletyze if they open their membership. That's stated on the Annual Charter Agreement (in slightly different words).

Page 30, ACP&P (#33088), 2007 edition: "The Scout reviews what he did for his rank. From this review, it can be determined whether he did what he was supposed to do. The review also reveals what kind of an experience the Scout is having in the troop. With that knowledge, the troop leaders can shape the program to meet the needs and interests of the Scouts. The board should attempt to determine the Scout's ideals and goals. The board should make sure that a good standard of performance has been met. A discussion of the Scout Oath and Scout Law is in keeping with the purpose of the review, to make sure the candidate recognizesa dn understands the value of Scouting in his home, unit, school and community." INHERENT IN THOSE TWO PARAGRAPHS is the necessity for the Scout to respond to questions coherently. To go way back to Lisa's post 3 in this thread, a "shrug" and a "dunno" do not answer the National Council's intent. Further, by issuing the letter and advising on appeal procedures, Lisa's troop has provided the Scout two different paths to completion. One is the "here are our expectations when you return." The other is "If you believe we are out of line, you may contact the District Advancement Chair, who will investigate and determine, if need be over-riding the unit decision." Lisa, you and your Board made a tough, not especially joyful, call. Do not second-guess yourself, do not allow yourself to be second-guessed by us. You were there, you know the full details. You know how well-trained (or not) the board was, and you know the conditions under which the Scout participated. Enjoy both the feedback and the active reading.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I've not tried that technique before, Lisa. I think much depends on how well folks know the Scout in question, and whether or not each of us, as the committeeman/woman on the ground, think it will make a difference. Much depends on the young man, the challenges he's facing, and the other pressures he may be under. If he's facing a big history test tomorrow, and he'd rather have blown off this Scout meeting and study, then nothing may work. He wants to get to the books. Equally, he may have been on the wrong side of grownups all day at school. He may want re-assurance that we aren't going to do him over all the more! I'm writing not so much to Lisa as to all of us now... More than anything, if a BOR is going in the tank because there's no communication, then maybe there's a need for a quieter, more intimate visit... sometimes the comfy chairs in the corner and a cup of cocoa will do wonders to draw the block out. CAUTION: Be prepared to listen, though. Be prepared for the possibility of tears. Sometimes a kid wants to get something off his chest, and it's a matter of finding the emotional keystone.

I think you hit it Gunny. Sigh.

Hi, Gunny, At the end of the day, it's discretionary judgment on your part. If the young man has stopped serving society, and is trying to forget the values Scouting instilled in him, it's pretty easy to find a way to refuse him. Of course, refusing him also means going through the processes in Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088 ... and having a cup of coffee with your District Advancement Chairman (someone has to be checking your 6). OTOH, if the young man is out doing great things, and you make the call that he's worth the Palm, go forward. I guess my key point is... use all your resources. Two of those resources are your friendly District Advancement Chair and your friendly (if you have one) UC. Always worth it buying them a cup of coffee and getting a local read on the situation.

Lisa, PM sent. John

Good morning, Lisa, Yeah, they're not fun days. You implied in your response to BW that you did the followup as required by Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088. The young man deserves to know why he was deferred from advancement. I'd have your CC also contact the District Advancement Chair and have a cup of coffee, proactively. I'd also have a cup of coffee with the Scoutmaster. You're the one on the ground, maybe the adults in your Troop can find an approach which will engage this young man's mind and spirit. Thoughts and prayers, good lady John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Herms, Newsworthy, yes. 3 minutes at the end of Countdown. "Spitzer, you ignorant XXXX!" to parlay an SNL joke of 30+ years ago. Of course, he gets excoriated on the late night comedy shows, as well he should. The next time it's newsworthy is if he comes to a plea or a trial. In the meantime, the news channels, to include NPR, show that their assignment editors graduated from the Tattler, the National Enquirer, and the Weekly World News. Does that make sense?

kahits wrote: "The total sign up for this troops Philmont trek was 4 adults and 10 youth. They kept the dads and asked 2 of the boys to voluntarily drop out. Eventually, 2 boys, who did not have fathers on the list, did drop out." As I said earlier, the adults should have dropped out before the kids. There is more than one way to get to Philmont (especially I-80 to I whatever into Denver, and then South along the Front Range). We're Scouting, not Scoutering. The youth should have the priority. That's my take.

Anne, I think the "doctrinal" answer is no more than 3 units, none of which you are directly associated with in your unit serving capacities (a rule which seems to be regularly honored in its breaching :| ) I would ask about how the DC intends to train, develop and mentor you... and what your opportunities are for supplemental training (Commissioner College). Like so many others, avoid burnout.

So Governor Elliott Spitzer of New York was a john. If you look at CNN, MSNBC or Fox, it's obviously a Federal Case approaching Ted Bundy or Virginia Tech in significance. It's equally obvious their senior news editors were just hired from the National Enquirer and the Weekly World News. I don't condone getting satisfied outside the marital bed, but this is pure and simply the spin cycle in high gear. ... And the newsies wonder why we don't trust them anymore. Can the network news divisions dial this back for what it is? There are worse things going on in this world, every bloody minute. Giving Spitzer the treatment they do really does cheapen the horrors of Virginia Tech, Columbine, the Murrah Building or Ted Bundy.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Mr Walston, It's helpful to look at the dates of posts. The original poster and Beavah had the critical colloquy two years ago. This thread has probably been in the dark recesses until it was brought back to life.

Mr/Ms Zinj, Like you, I've had lots of leadership psych and management methods across many years. Uncle gave me mine as part of the deal of wearing his uniform and standing the duties in so many places. That part was well-plowed ground. Even so, there were nuggets which I found worthy of reinforcement. More importantly, I tapped into people resources I didn't have before. A patrol mate is a nurse educator; I have access to best practices in first aid now. Another patrol mate is a senior fisheries biologist for our State Department of Conservation; I get access to his knowledge base in helping my Scouts. It's all about people... and about helping our young people become the best next generation they can be. Yes, I struggled with courseware and presentations which were "reading the slides" (something I abhor in the workplace). I got beyond that... One of my best friends lives in Indiana now, she's a Navy Commander and Naval War College grad. She in turn has a friend, a Marine Master Gunner. They took WB in the Indianapolis local council. Didn't take them 2 minutes to figure out they could teach the course better than most of the staff. They were also able to take it in stride, and they met people who entered their resource nets! I'm sorry you felt WB wasted your time

To me, the best recruiting tool is the kids themselves having FUN. Bring the PW Derby track, let prospects race. Borrow Cubs' cars. Have a charcoal stove going just outside the building. Have the Cubs make and give away S'mores, hot dogs, or foil dinner samples. Have tug o'wars... invite the prospects to join the Cubs. Don't forget to use Den Chiefs to help!!! Older boys in Boy Scout uniforms saying Scouting is cool can overcome the resistance of Cub aged kids/parents. KISMIF.

Stosh, Why isn't your OATR doing annual dues collection, and keeping all Arrowmen in the Troop, youth and adult, informed? It's part of his POR!

Bottom Line: This is wrong. You cut down the adults going before you cut down youth. Scouting is a youth program. We need to give them the opportunities our parents gave us!

Welcome to the forums, you may want to receive input on this from our brother and sister Arrowmen by PM. We do want to keep the mystery of our ceremonies, and anyone can google this info!

Lisa, There are times and places where Soldiers are not permitted the privilege of civilian clothing. It was rare before 9-11, but has been fairly frequent since. Even the rule on not travelling in field uniforms to/from/during leaves has been set aside. I think we've all seen the pictures of friends and family arriving home for their two week R&R leave from the sandbox in their service field uniform. As late as VietNam, troops had a set of Class B khakis available for leaves, etc. Now, if he's local area, and just doing his military job in the local area, then what GW said may apply. If he's on recruiter duty, then he's expected to show up at BSA/GSUSA/Camp Fire/HS athletic games, ad infinitum in uniform. It's part of the job.

Shortridge, EagleSon staffs our Council's Bear Family Overnight Camp program on the Theodore Naish Scout Reservation. He has duties which are program in nature, and he has duties which are service in nature. He does some of both every workday he's on property.

ozemu, you asked: Does BSA encourage the wearing of military medal ribbons with Scout uniform? We do. Scouts Australia may, but BSA doesn't. Gunny: Great commentary, and spot on. BW: You miss three key points of Gunny's commentary: 1- When BSA says uniform, we mean clothing. 2- When the Armed Forces say uniform, we mean clothing and equipment. 3- BSA has (and Lord willing never will) have coercive measures for wearing uniforms. 4- The Armed Forces have, have used, and will continue to use coercive measures as needed to ensure Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen are in the right place, at the right time, with the right gear. 5- BSA does not spend resources on uniform compliance. 6- Armed Forces spend time and energy inspecting clothing and equipment. 7- BSA has one source of supply for its clothing: BSA Supply Division. 8- The Armed Forces have more than one source of supply, although a commander can specify "issued only" items. We can buy Defense Personnel Support Center stocked items, or we can go downtown. This includes almost every item in the inventory. Lord knows my service Green and Dress Blue uniforms came from custom uniformers!

Ed wrote in a thread on the Advancement Forum: But should the new requirements be requirements? They are about bullying & the like. Shouldn't this be taught at home? To me, these are the CYA type of requirements for the BSA. Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 I have to agree with Ed to some degree. The one-liner we got sometime last October-November was pretty darn wimpy. I'd like to know what's going on between the YP folk and the National Boy Scout Committee which caused this change to be approved. There's a background paper out there somewhere. Someone has access to it. Beavah, can you tap your resouces? If yes, TIA! John

" have trouble buying into the theory of being too busy to do something they enjoy. The Scouts in the Ship I serve are almost entirely high school juniors and seniors and college students. People make time for things they WANT to do." Which means any Venturing Crew, and its Council support, has to have enough whizbang to make it past the filters of school and work.

Lisa, I was thinking in terms of your District Membership Chair hat, not your Troop hat. Leveraging college students, if there are unit serving vacancies in your District, might help with some of those. Does that make more sense? Thanks for the feedback John