John-in-KC

OGE, If I answer your question you will have to move this thread to Issues and Politics. SA, The youth will have plenty of time in grades 9-12 to get used to buzzwords. Surely BSA could have found something less edgey (sic)

Look to your program. Is it full of skills learning for the outdoors? Are there games? IS IT FUN? Or... is it something of a bore? What about your outdoor program: Do you have good monthly campouts, or do you go to the same tentpeg hole every month? Those are questions for your PLC and you. Your situation is the flip side of the "Registered=active" debate. Are your PLs and SPL contacting these kids and encouraging them to come? Are you talking to the parents? BTW, on refunds, I'm with IM_Kathy. If the app is in your hands, ok. If you've sent it to Council, it's between parents and Council.

Talk to your Scout shop, although I believe both the student and the graduate neckers are controlled items, which means you'll need to talk to your CD and/or TG.

Actually, I think there need to be multiple modules, because some of these skills take more than a weekend, or even a week to learn. Camp cookery. Knife and axemanship. That may even be two modules. Camp equipment. You would not believe how many folks think nylon of our tents is flame-proof. Knots and pioneering. Strength and conditioning for hiking. The challenge is, who can afford to pay the trainers? It's hard enough to take a week off for the sake of the youth members.

For a Scout Troop, have a couple kids set camp outside. Have them cooking desserts in a Dutch. Have them showing their backpacking gear.

highcountry, Did you or did you not sign the DRP when you signed your adult leader app? Our mission as Scouters is to support the Aims and Methods of Scouting. The Values method includes faith. It's not for the parents to work out. It's for your PLC to figure out how to support the worship of God as part of the overall things they do, and support the families (and their brother Scouts) as they do it. Welcome to tough challenges.

Adults need to speak to the youth leaders too. They need to understand that the working republic of a Troop is led by the SPL, and that the SM is a mentor, not the executive.

E, That indeed is a big part of it. We go where our pals are

Board Games afternoon at your local city park shelter? Plan B should be identified at the time you schedule Plan A. It should be something you can easily flesh out on 48 hours notice. Something simple...like a board game afternoon or a movie afternoon.

If there was a thread Kudu would be on point in, this is it. I've been consistent for a year: This is a bad idea. Of course, after observing a bunch of uncontrolled NAYLE youth at PTC last summer, I'm not sure we should not abandon NYLT and go back to JLT and Brownsea 22 curricula.

Always have a Plan B It's that simple. Sounds like your leaders don't. Sounds like you can make this point during Roses and Thorns at the next Committee meeting.

First two questions: Who is the Senior Patrol Leader? Who are the current Troop Guides? Third question: May I speak to them? Many of your questions should be asked to the SPL, not the SM. If the SM is doing all the talking, there's a good shot the Patrol Method is not in play. Now, the next question: What type of camping does the Troop emphasize: Heavy (trailers, patrol boxes, big gas stoves) or light (backpacking based)? This question will drive equipment selection for families. Light camping has a heavier initial investment, but quality gear lasts years. Many of your questions for the SM should be addressed to the SPL and the Guide. This is a question for the Scoutmaster: - Does your unit program planning follow the annual program themes as presented by the National Council at District Roundtable? Program support is one of the obligations BSA has to the Chartered Partner and the unit. This is a question for the Committee Chair: - What is your working relationship with your Chartered Partner? This question tells you if the Troop and the Partner are working to further the Aims and Methods of Scouting. An insular relationship on either side is not a good thing. Back to the SM: - What will you do to help me untether from my son, so he can get the full benefit of the program? The more independence you allow your son, the more risk of failure/success he has on his own, the stronger a young man he will be. A Troop that keeps you at a distance from him is good.

Beav, Do not mention He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named tongue firmly in cheek.

Last week at a Scout Camp campfire I dressed out. Full Venturing field uniform, to include my necker and beads, and the belt I hand tooled at PTC last year. BTW, they have a PTC and a PTC staff belt buckle now. You can only get the staff belt buckle by being staff. Most of the time, I'm more than content to have much less on... perhaps little more than a working activity uniform (see folks, I do know the correct term for Class B ). So, my question is this: Since when has JLT or NYLT been part of WB? Hmmmmmm? During my week at PTC, there was this guy from Texas with his 1 ton mobile Scout Museum truck. He is the penultimate patch collector. Maybe it's time we dump all the special patches and go to a plain uniform with just the khaki/green emblems. No knots, no beads, no nothing. Why do we have advancement in Cub and Boy Scouting, and Recognition in Venturing? It's because physical symbols are motivators. I don't know about you, but I'm not at Maslow's self-actualization level. The baubles and bangles help. It also helps when I know that a bauble means "been there, done that" in a very uniform way. That's the issue. Working with a bunch of jaded and experienced adults is fully different than working with Rush's "minds full of mush", who will do what you tell them to do ... because they're still at the point of no backtalk to an adult (trust me, after The Game of Life, the CD got his full ration of backtalk from us). To me, it comes down to this: If we're so short NYLT adult staff that it takes adding a WB bead to the mix, then something is gut-check wrong with how the sylabbus and how National intends it be supported. It's a bribe in a different recognition system, no more, no less.

SIG, Politically correct or not, Male Association became Adult Association over 20 years ago. I know some fantastic women SMs. GWD, right here on this board, is one. There are women out there who are far better outdoors-people than I ever was.

B, I offer two quotes to your from krb09: Recently (last night), we were told that our son might be dismissed from the troop for misbehavior. This is the first we have heard of any type of misbehavior since our son joined the troop in March. That's from his original post. The adults that were present at the time of the injury were addressed by council, and they admitted they were at fault and that their judgment was subpar that day. Loyalty (as well as friendliness) is a two-way street. If a Scoutmaster, or the Committee Chair has a gut-check issue with a youth member, then they need to be talking adult-adult with the parents. It's back-channel stuff. Even if there was a SM conference about the youths' conduct (doesn't look like it from the limited info we have), there should have been a follow-up with the parents. We're trying to raise up great young adults here; it's far harder when we aren't working from one plan. Yes, krb probably should call the SM and CC and ask what is going on. If he gets anything less than a direct answer ... there's a program with weak communication skills in play. Right now, from my vantage point, this unit needs its franchise-owner and its BSA friend on site next week.

Gern, If I were the local SE, and I heard of a Chartered Partner discriminating on basis of race, I think I'd be paying a business visit composed of myself, the local DE, and the General Counsel. There had best be a very good reason. I would hope most SE's are media-aware enough to see this particular bad news story before it got to print or the tube, and to head it off at the pass.

No, they're not happy, because what they ask for is usually not quite what they really wanted... sigh.

You really want my thought? They get their 3d bead for WB staff. Period. NYLT service does not equal Wood Badge service. Period. Give them a belt buckle for having staffed NYLT. Remember, you asked.

My suggestion then is to get the permission of your DC to help be a mentor to this young man and his bride. Otherwise, others in the District will throw you under that bus, too.

1) Insist the Institutional Head, the Chartered Organization Representative, and the Unit Commissioner (or the District Commissioner, if the UC be not available) be at this meeting. If they refuse, simply say "Please deliver me his records and any dues or fees not obligated. I am transferring him to another Troop in his best interests." 2) Go with your son. If it even looks like it's going to be a Spanish Inquisition, vice a friendly gathering of adults, say "I am now acting in the best interests of my son. Please surrender your unit records and and any funds we've paid in that are not disbursed. I will be transferring my son to another unit. Mr XXXXXxxxx, (whoever the IH is), this unit needs some adult supervision to implement its side of your Scouting license." Then say "Son, it's time for us to move along the trail." 3) On the other hand, Lord willing, things will be friendly and mature. In that case, be there as backup for your son. 4) Since the unit has not set this up as a Board of Review (albeit not for advancement), if they ask you to leave the room, say "Excuse me? You did not state you were convening a Board of Review. At this point, I believe the best interests of my child demand my presence. Now, why are you convening this session, please?" I'm a great advocate of friendly cups of coffee, that mature adults can play nice and deal with matters. When I see a system trying to gang up on a kid, my PROTECT mode flips ON. Let us know how this turns out.

What is your position in the District? The right two folks to work this are the District Commissioner and the District Chairman. They are also the right two folks to have a "come to Jesus" with assorted and sordid Scouters about adults in the District playing nice.

As I recall, you had a friend in Supply Corporation. What's the cost to tool up the first flap of a new run? I've got a simple way to put the kids on appetite supressants: Instead of amortizing the fixed costs across the production run, amortize the fixed costs across the youth membership voting for yet another flap as a dues surcharge.

One year at Scout Camp, one of our Scouts, who happens to really like critters, didn't wash before bed, and had peanut butter on his face. About 3 AM, he was awakened by a couple of raccoons testing his kissing technique by licking the peanut butter off his face. He was delighted. His Dad (not I, but also on that camp), wasn't.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I went back and re-read the OP. There is one possibility we're overlooking. It's possible the original poster litigated against the Troop or the Chartered Partner after an outing. If that's true, then my suspicion is the scenario really looks like this: Mr Parent, you hit us in our pocketbooks; you're not welcome here anymore, and we're going to take it out on your kid. Now, to the original poster: - If indeed you litigated against the Troop and the Chartered Partner, it probably is a good idea to collect your sons' records and move on to another unit. You've most likely burned bridges, both for yourself and your son. If this indeed happened, do not be surprised if your reputation follows you closely. - If you didn't litigate, and I'm misreading the paragraph, then the Scouters of this Troop may lack the moral courage to come to you and have a quiet cup of coffee about your son. In that case, it's also time to leave. Points of all this? Things work a lot better when all the adults play nice. It's time to leave this Troop.