John-in-KC

Don't forget the snipes for the kids, or the tent pole grease either...

Just got a note from yahoo in my email. GeoCities, yahoo's free website service, will close Oct 26. Close means they will shut down the servers and take the data offline. It will not be recoverable. If your Pack, Troop, or Crew uses GeoCities... it's time to look for a new webhost. (Mods: After a couple days, can you shift this to the Web Forum. I thought OD-Program would get broad dissemination quickly). YIS.

EagleSon calls his Pastor, they put together a time, and off he goes to visit and take the Lord's Supper. There are Chaplains on staff at our Scout Reservations ... and one of their first jobs is to minister to the staff!

Way back in Gunnery at Fort Sill, there was a reminder whenever we took tests. RTFQ-RTFAs Shortridge, thank you for reading my answer

I believe in pushing kids outside the unit. It's called teaching them to deal with strangers. Now, these folks are not strangers to Mr SM of the time EagleSon was a youth member, nor were they to me. They were though new to EagleSon. Two of EagleSons first year references for employment on the staff came from out-of-Troop MB Counselors he'd gotten to know and became friends with. Push the hatchlings out of the Troop Nest!!! Send them to other Counselors in the District. How does Mr SM do that? He (and other unit serving Scouters) get to know the other folk at events like ROUNDTABLE

It's indeed not worth blowing out of proportion, but it's also an integrity issue. Those here who are of the Brotherhood know the part of our Oath I speak of. Lodge Chief needs to have a Conference with this Scout and his SM. Doesn't have to be confrontational, but does need to lay some groundwork. Then, this little Charlie Fox needs to be reported, sans names, in the Lodge newsletter.

When it happens, it happens. ACP&P #33088 has guidance on how changes in requirements apply for Scouts seeking S-L-E, as will Requirements #33215/6. Remember BS Handbook is part of an integrated set of program documents, including Requirements...

Al, It's been at least two weeks since you got home. That's more than enough time for someone to make a change MBO...MBE...MBWA...EDGE...MIC...KEY...MOUSE. Buzzword!!! BINGO!!! Grrrr... I'll let Kudu rant on this one. The first rule of Acronym Management is never use the acronym the first time it's introduced. Instead, spell it out. The learning technique behind EDGE is valid, it combines, aural, visual, demonstrate, and do behaviors. It's a bloody BUZZWORD though. Sigh.

I'll offer a different approach from HC. Work through your Chartered Partner's IH and COR. The Chartered Partner is the licensee of record (charter-holder) for your Scout units. Their comments first insulate you and second allow the laser light focus as discussed by HC to happen. It seems to me they would have an ability to voice being scandalized by this, yet be dispassionate.

1) ScoutNet. Ordeal is a tracked date, IIRC. 2) LodgeNet. Ordeal is a tracked date. The youth members working registration for the weekend should be able to manage this. It's not rocket science. Sounds to me like the Lodge Adviser needs to have some log stump mentoring with the Chief and the VC for membership. Then, the Chief should have a log stump mentoring with the short-time Brother. Ask him about what we say at the ceremony (a synonym for integrity comes to mind).

PRAY is a freestanding business. You have to ask them. While there are relationships between BSA and PRAY, they do not involve item design. You have to ask PRAY.

H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation beds down 1500 Scouts and Scouters every night of 6 10 day sessions. Our Council employment system is: - Youth Staff below 18: Hired as Instructors. Work under supervision of Counselors, a NCS qualified AD(s), and and NCS qualified Dir. - Young Adult Staff, 18-21: Hired and trained as Counselors. Work under supervision of the ADs and Dir. - Adult Staff: Hired and trained as ADs or Dirs. It can be done, but your Council has to commit to the work. I remember the first year I was Troop Advancement Coordinator. After Camp, my Advancement Report was 9 pages long, with over 200 MBs earned in toto. Looking back, did we do the best QA job we could as unit serving Scouters? No. Have I learned? Yes. Of course, I have it pretty good: EagleSon staffs our Bear Resident Overnight Camp.

Sandspur: Not quite. The COR is the one who replaces a SM or the CC. All leader actions should wash through the COR, but the adult side of Scouting is not a democracy. the Chartered Partner is the licensee of record of a unit. Replacing a principal Program Officer, as Beavah says, can help ... and can seriously injure ... a Troop. It's a COR decision. If a unit has a weak relationship with the Chartered Partner, well... here's why it needs rebuilding.

I think scouts that have parents at home that help keep a boy moving forward have a better chance at eagle, is that your experience? Supportive parents are better for a young person in all shapes and forms. Almost 17 and Star. He's got work to do, but it can be done. He's already shown he's willing to do much. Being a camp staffer is tough. Long days and not a lot of pay. Even so, it's hugely rewarding. If your council is like mine, your SM has to sign off on youth members as staff. That means your SM buys in to this young man at some level. I stand by my earlier advice: Mr SM and Mr Camp Director need to take this young man offsite for a friendly mentoring meal. Help him see the journey, visualize it. If he buys in, you're off and running. He might not; he may be getting the rewards he needs. He's growing up; it should be his call.

It may be he is getting the fulfillment and growth he desires from where he is right now. It may be that he doesn't need the external recognition of Eagle. Personally, I think the best thing is for Mr SM to have a friendly phone call with Mr Camp Director or Program Director about this Scout. Get a POV from someone else who is deeply involved in his growth and development. Then, and this is the tough part, Mr SM goes out to camp, hooks up with Mr CD/PD, and they take him offsite for a friendly mentoring meal. In other words, show this Scout folks consider him worth receiving extra effort, because he is already giving extra effort.

Brent, That might work for T-2-1, but in the MB process, a qualified Counselor is the person who signs off the Scout had met standards. Now, if your Council is saying that Scouts Bobby, Billy, and Jimmy are ready for testing, that's one thing. OTOH, if they're saying the SM makes the call on whether or not to award a MB based on camp completion, that's wholly different. Please, can you clarify?

One comment: Here in Flyover Country, where the Gulf of Mexico and the Great Lakes lend our air water vapor, wicking T's are pretty essential. I just finished two weeks at the base of the Eastern slope of the Sierra Nevadas, 2000' below (altitude, not depth) Lake Tahoe. I wore cotton every day, and only once was I "soggy." That day a tropical storm in Baja was kicking moisture up to Northern Nevada. My opinion: In low humidity climes, cotton fills the bill.

There are actually paragraphs in ACP&P #33088 covering summer camp advancement procedure Council Advancement and Camping Committees are to take. One method of managing: Allow youth to take the training, but require them to meet a Counselor back home for the testing phase. I would do that in conjunction with shortridge's suggestion. Meanwhile, to Northbell: Have we answered your questions? May we help with other questions?

While I am an advocate that the SM is the Program Officer of the Troop, and the ASMs work for him, Quadrant 1 of the leadership development model (high direction, low support) isn't needed very long. Ideally, in most mature Troops, the youth are in Quadrant 3 or 2 (low direction, high support, or high direction, high support, respectively), and the adults should be in Quadrant 4 (low direction, low support). Doesn't sound like the SM believes this is where the Troop is. To me, it sounds like it's time for the CC to have a friendly cup of coffee with the Scoutmaster and do a "thorns and roses" about Scout Camp with him. THEN!!!, Mr SM and the PLC need to have a "thorns and roses" session. Feedback is a gift, and if Mr Scoutmaster doesn't get feedback, this Troop won't be around very long. BTW, to me, the mentorship between SPL and SM on expectations should have happened well before camp. What you described might be effective at Basic Training (eh, Gunny?), but sounds like it didn't work here. In fact, it does not sound like mentoring at all.

Brent, Thank you for saying it more eloquently than I

Here are my thoughts on the matter: - We who are Scouters join, or return to the movement to raise up the next generations of American youth. We believe Boy Scouting develops the "whole man." If we didn't, why are we spending time on this board? - Our goal is to apply all eight Methods of Scouting. We want the kids to develop and mature to the point of a miniature model of a working society. That means elections, that means bringing the leaders together to evaluate information and make decisions. That means allowing the neighborhoods (Patrols) room to be such when in the outdoors (believe it or not, I like Rick's 300 foot rule. Not always do-able, but certainly a darn good idea. - This isn't Barrie's "Never-Never-Land". Our young charges are going to encounter crotchety, cranky, bent-out-of-shape, ironbound set in their ways adults all their lives. They need to learn to deal with those guys, along with those who are more mature and reasonable. SFAIK, there's only one way to learn how to work with an adult, and that's to just do it and learn through the school of hard knocks. - Our young charges don't know it all ... to quote Rush, many of them have "minds full of mush." I don't use that as a derogatory (as he does), but to me their minds are not set and baked yet. They're still learning and growing. Take a moment and look at Lisabob. She's got two sequential advanced degrees in her field. That means she knows a thing or two about her field. She counsels, in her field, Boy Scouts. Do you think a 16 year old can bring the experiences she has in Citizenship in the Nation to the table, while maintaining the rule of "do not add to, do not take from?" I think not. If Rick (and I don't mean ghermanno down in Texas) sees this, he'll spew off about management theory again. His problem, not mine. If we do this right, we give the kids a growing up in the outdoors, teach them the values of America, and get them learning to cooperate and succeed. Not a bad mix, Scouting is.

OGE, Dried apples and beef jerky, my friend. The young Scout is the object of the program. We expect him to learn by making mistakes. Scout Camp should be the program event of the Council's program year. We hire, train (NCS), and evaluate staff. We procure resources. Lots of us spend our summers, falls, and winters helping make the camp ready for the next season. BTW, from what various Professional Service members have told me, Scout Camp is supposed to at least pay for itself. It's not to be a loss leader. Customer service matters. Since I've served as a camp commish, if asked to assist, heck yes, I will. That said, assisting does not cover the matter of not having enough disposable protective covers for the thermometer. Assisting does not cover the kitchen not having any meals in reserve. From what the OP wrote, I think it would have been a grand thing had the Region Camp Visitation team shown up on opening day. Might have made for exciting times on this camps 2009 accreditation.

Eagle 732, What I am doing here is reciting the policy as it now exists. I serve our District Advancement Chairman by teaching Merit Badge Counselor training before a new Counselor does his app. What I am doing here is presenting current National policy as written in the various BSA literature. That's it. What the OP's unit does is up to their SM, CC, and COR. As far as what right should look like on advancement policy, go ahead and open a thread on that. Kudu should come a'running. I might even participate. Here, though, I present what's currently in the literature.

Even though the scout has completed the blue card, isn't it his obligation to make sure he has registered counselor? No, no, no, a thousand times, NO. It is the Scoutmaster's personal responsibility to assign a qualified merit badge counselor. Period. Scout responsibility begins at gaining contact with the Counselor, after assignment. Rick or Lisa, I'm still out of position. Do one of you have access the right words from the Scoutmaster's Handbook, please?

Ed, tend to agree, but I'm not sure of this Troops' checks and balances in any way, shape, or form. Much as BW could be BW, his point about using the various program materials the way they are supposed to be used, and about taking basic, advanced, and supplemental training, is spot on. It's harder to do all this stuff when you're winging it.