JoeBob

With the decline of Cowboys and Indians on TV, and the politically correct types deriding BSA/OA using an interpretation of Indian Lore to inject mysticism into our ceremonies; what will be left to mark the passing of Native Americans? I'm certain that the Cherokee don't want to be remembered as the 'drunks who own the casino'. Once they all get stirred into the great melting pot, nobody will care...

When I try to 'format your post' I only get a broken .gif symbol. Must be security issue. Using IE8.

My philosophy is in line with Beavah on this one. Who can work best with the boys, and who has the time to sacrifice? And I would oppose TwoCub's: "What is your vision for the troop" and "appoint a nominating committee of 3 or 4 folks and task them with gathering input from all the constituent group". Is it just me, or does that sound like Tom Blanchard's version of a WoodBadge ticket item? I would almost assume that the person who most impressed the committee answering that question, would be the candidate who would LEAST impress the boys...

My father and I were a competent team on the crosscut saw. We were the only family on the block with sawbucks in the back yard. (Probably the only family in town, but I can't verify that.) I put a Fisher Stove in the lower level of my first house. The firebox was deep so you could feed it longer logs (less cutting). I'd start the fire with cured wood and feed it a green red oak log before going to bed. Stayed warm all night and had coals to work with in the morning. Now I'm feeding a 4 foot Rumford fireplace with scavenged wood from the neighborhood. When a tree falls, I get the call to remove it instead of $1000 tree service. FREE Firewood! (But Mrs. JoeBob uses the four zone heat pump...)

NOW I get it! So that's why Mrs. JoeBob thinks I should carry my deer heads into camp held high to show 'em off. All this time I was thinking she just wanted 'em off the wall in my den.

LisaBob: Sorry, joined the discussion late. I don't think that Liberals make more compelling arguments. I think y'all just type so much better than we old farts!

JMH: I hope like the Dickens that you are right!

That's not a tax cut! It's a holiday from your SS pension contributions. Which means your kids will be paying it for you. Two MONTHS? To take effect in ten DAYS? Yeah, that'll eliminate uncertainty in the future and stimulate business. A two month redistribution of wealth shows Business just how hopeless congress is of getting anything productive done, and stimulates Business to RUN!

After reading the few questions mentioned in the study, I guess I have to put myself in the less-informed group. 'Occupy Wall Street' is associated with Democrats? Maybe at first; but after OWS started pooping on police-cars, passing around SDTs, and getting shut down even in LA and SF everybody started to distance themselves from OWS. Mittens Romney is the GOP frontrunner? Which week? But if former Gov and Senator John (I don't know where the $1B went.) Corzine is representative of NJ intelligence, someone needs to flush the gene pool. (Edited to apologize to The Garden State.) (This message has been edited by JoeBob)

Hmmmmm... How much of a stretch is it to say that: An Adult Leader Never a Scout's most important challenge is to achieve a Boy-Led Troop with little adult input. (Not having the deep woods background makes Leadership Skills a more comfortable field for ALNS.) - and - A Former Scout now a Leader's most inportant goal is to teach good woodsmanship? (It's hard to justify putting emphasis on woodscraft when increasing urbanization makes woods skill less valuable - law of diminishing marginal utility...)

Bart, Thanks for that link. My morning is better all ready! JoeBob

John: From your link: "A hunter can attack any so-called fair game at any time." Totally false. Hunting out of season will get you jail time. "He can trespass on any property that isnt posted and guarded." Is there a "POSTED" sign on your front door? So I can come in any time without being charged with B&E? What's for dinner? For a more objective look at the incident your article mis-represents, I googled both names and found "Where Rampages Begin" : http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/14/us/where-rampages-begin-special-report-adolescent-angst-shooting-up-schools.html?ref=andrewgolden&pagewanted=1 BTW, I recommend the above article to Scouters who work closely with boys. I learned a few things to look for... The NYT article directs repsonsiblity towards film, music, video games, and absent parents. HUNTING is not mentioned even once.

What's wrong with a little violence every now and then? As an individual or a society? I LOVE college football!

Good luck getting an objective scientific opinion from this guy: "Andrew Linzey is an Anglican priest, theologian, author, and prominent figure in the Christian vegetarian movement. He is a member of the Faculty of Theology in the University of Oxford and held the worlds first academic post in Ethics, Theology and Animal Welfare" johnponz: I'm curious, where do you stand on the abortion issue? Just poking the fire, here. But since a human sperm hovering in the aqueous outside of a female egg is much closer to 'being human' than a beef cow, where would a human zygote fit on your 'value of life' scale? I know, I'm a trouble maker...

John, I followed your link and just about laughed myself out of my chair. What nonsense! Here's a link for you to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman-Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act "hunters contribute about three and a half million dollars a day to conservation by purchasing taxable items and hunting licenses" I personally would much rather die instantaneously from a bullet in the brain than to have my teeth wear down to the point that I couldn't eat. It takes a whitetail about 18 months to slowly waste away and the wild dogs can pull it down . I wonder how long it takes to lose consciousness when five coyotes are chewing you? What a way to go!

Eating.

'Boy' scouts grow into men who are comfortable in the woods on their own. So when they're adults, they participate in Scouting with their sons. But when their sons move on, so do the men. They still go into the woods, but as hikers, hunters, and fishermen. And all of those activities work better in groups smaller than a scout troop or patrol. Scouters who join up as adults, are used to going into the woods in groups. And they've just begun to satisfy their curiousity about all things Scouting. NS Scouters are still learning and stay satisfied longer than men who scouted as a youth, did it again with their sons, and arre ready to move on. I was wondering about this topic last month when I observed that all of the Scouters with a chestfull of knots on their uniforms, were all lacking that one little Eagle knot at the bottom of the pile. Is that an observable charateristic in your councils?

Eagle92, I thought that your "DO LET THEM WIN!" was something you picked up from 'The Game of Life'...

"Leadership Skills" as a pedantic concept may be what'sat the root of BSA's present miasma. As politically incorrect as it may seem, not all Scouts are good leaders. No amount of book-learning is going to make all Scouts good leaders. Intelligence, charisma, wisdom and self-confidence are not 101 through 600 level courses that you check off on your way to being a good leader. Although "Leadership Skills" may certainly boost the self-confidence of an average leader, and give them strategic tools for muddling through difficult situations; no amount of taught "Leadership Skills" will ever make a Scout (or Scouter) a good leader if he did not already have the potential to be a good leader in his basic make-up. Hate good leadership? I don't think so. Any NCO will tell you what a pleasure it is to follow a competent leader, whether he's a butter bar or a three star. Hold overly-processed pre-packaged "Leadership Skills" in disdain? Why sure. Have you ever seen the certified person in charge of DayCamp walk around talking with only the vaguest idea about what's going on? Why is it that the Training chair is usually the most oblivious? (Kudu: like our Bystander-In-Chief?) What is it about two wooden beads that makes someone talk for ten minutes at roundtable about a twenty second blurb that no one cares about? Not all boys/men are created/raised/developed equally. 'Leadership Skills" can't change that. Flame on, Johnny Torch!

I find Kudu's point of view to be very refreshing and certainly different from the usual drivel. If we didn't have a variety of opinion's, what would we discuss? An opinion that brings up ideas outside the 'norm' certainly stimulates more thought than another bland "You're right, me too." So Kudu's contributions are MORE productive and helpful than your whines about "Hey, don't rock the boat." Kudu: I hadn't considered the possible connection from 'Leadership Skills: take no risks and make everybody happy' inside Scouting to the current batch in DC trying to make all their friends happy. Now you've got me thinking about the parallels.

Now I'm curious. A question for all the other conservative/moderate minded folks on the board: What percentage of your friends who did NOT vote for Obama would describe themselves as 'values' voters? LisaBob's courtesy deserves an answer.

Lisabob says: "many so-called, self-described, "values voters"" Harumph! I personally know of NO self described 'values voters'. I do recognize that a few candidates describe themselves as 'values' candidates in an effort to woo Evangelicals. But there are fewer Evangelicals than Mormons. (Wild Ass Guess - no stats) All of those 'values' candidates are polling in the low single digits, hence demonstrating how low the number of 'value voters' there really are. But the Media ain't about to let the blatant hypocrisies of those 'values' slide outta the picture. They need sensationalism to sell stories! And some of the 'gotchas' are pretty good. Beavah: regarding abortion, I think you're close to the heart of the matter. But I think that the 'killing babies' argument is a reach from a religious based attempt to control your sex life. (Resistance to the RU486 Morning After drug proved that one.) Republican Conservatives have no business in my bedroom. Liberal Democrats have no business in my wallet.

The 'Traditional Values' litmus test is usually foisted upon Conservatives by media pundits. TwoCub's earlier point about the media being a critical enabler of Democrats is very accurate. Many more Conservatives (not Republicans...) are sensitive to fiscal and national security issues than to social issues. Heck, 90% of the people I know who voted for McCain are pro-choice, but you'd never believe that if you listen the MSM. (If you don't like abortion, choose to not have one!) But abortion has become the key wedge issue used to motivate single-issue women voters to blindly support the Dems. To keep that wedge sharp, the media holds Repubs to a higher 'Moral Standard'. I'll even submit that anyone who has led a perfect life and actually passes the 'Traditional Values' test is too boring to be president!

Where do I start? Lisabob: "The apparent willingness of many Republican voters to serially adopt, then abandon, one Republican candidate after another." You mean like the DNC backstabbing Hillary after the Main Stream Media fell in love with Obama? "What makes Newt (or Cain) a better role model and exemplar of "character" than these other guys?" Jennifer Flowers? Kathleen Willey? Juanita Broderick? Monica Lewinsky? Paula Jones? Now why are all those names familiar? What is the definition of 'is'? R's decided that being more like the D's in the character department would appeal to the middle. Is it working? Or do y'all really miss Sarah Palin that much?

When the kids were playing pre-K soccer, the teams did not keep score. Scouting with no advancement would be tbe same. Older kidz want to keep score. (In fact the Pre-K soccer players kept track of the score, in their head.)