JoeBob

Hey Fred, I appreciate your desire to 'shield' you boys from paper-pushing bureacrats. But if you don't maintain high expectations for the HIGHEST award from the best nation's foremost character building oraganization for young men, what do you have? A participation trophy?

The fact that this candidate is so adamant about not completing the required outings (which would take a few months) indicates to me that he wants 'Eagle Scout' on his college applications, NOW! He doesn't want to earn Eagle. His father isn't interested in teaching his son to live to a higher standard. They just have an urgent need to pump up his credentials. Going on outings, national appeals, and to a lesser degree district appeals, will all push 'Eagle Scout' down the road beyond when he plans to submit his college applications. He may just go away if he can't get Eagle now, because the rank apparently only has value to him on his resume. Not the type of 'Eagle' you want to fly.

Beavah: "it's about privileged access to the hearts and minds of impressionable young folks." Eloquent and center mass on target. Even for you!

Billy Payne said that Augusta National wouldn't 'change at the point of a bayonet.' So once the bayonet was withdrawn, and most of the world forgot who Martha Burke was, Augusta National admitted two fine citizens who just happened to be female. Would you not just love to play nine holes with Condi!

Lurking = Reconnaisance. Recon = Being Prepared. No Problem!

Hey LisaBob, Although I agree with your premise of denizens of a certain type of political orbit having common causes with other astral entities in the same orbit... I think you erred when you categorized Chik-Fil-A as "nasty deep fried fatty mystery-meat" http://www.chick-fil-a.com/Food/Ingredients http://www.chick-fil-a.com/Food/Healthful-Lifestyle This stuff is even better than what Momma made. Sorry , Momma!

Calico! New Glarus, Wisconsin? Why I'm sipping a 'Spotted Cow' as I type! No music playing. But it's still worth noting...

EGADS! This take thread hijacking to a whole new level!!

Divine RETRIBUTION? No way! Donald Perry was called home in reward for a job well done!

I had no intention of pursuing this topic until I read a related story about the media (99% liberal) burying the outcome of Chik-Fil-A appreciation day. That's when it dawned on me that most of you probably don't have a clue about what actually happened on Wednesday. (When leftists lose a fight, they either claim that they weren't fighting or lie about the score.) So have a look at the photos: http://ureport.foxnews.com/assignment?groupId=23679&type=1,2# 288 different photos of massive crowds of people lined up and waiting for hours to support a business entity that they felt was being unjustly persecuted. Lines running out through shopping malls. Four-lane highways with traffic blocked by the folks trying to turn in. Many Chik-Fil-As ran out of food to sell before the end of business, and had to close. (Leftist reply: "See! We won! We forced them to shut down!") Hate does not motivate this kind of reaction, despite what many media types will try to claim. When big government blowhards improperly throw their authority at innocent private businesses, that plucks a chord in the hearts of Americans who believe in fair play. Final comment: With boycotts like this, who needs to buy advertising?!?!

Ah packsaddle, Again with the broad brush?

I think we're missing an important subtlety. Chik-Fil-A does not have an anti-gay policy. 1- Anti gay marriage is not anti-gay. 2- Chik-Fil-A does not discriminate against gays. They have gay employees and gay customers. 3- The expressed personal beliefs of their elderly founder are not reflected in their business practices. 4- The philosophical beliefs of Truett Caffey have no direct input in the product sold - chicken sandwichs. The Dixie Chicks' product is their words. It's much easier to attach an unpopular spoken belief to a product that consists of other spoken (sang) words. It's hard not to think about "We don't like George Bush in Texas" spoken on a French stage while you're trying to enjoy a country song coming out of the same mouth.

"a public commitment on their part to serve other youth organizations that require parents to support homosexuals as potential leaders over their youth" I'm not normally a gay-basher. I frankly don't care. But I was wondering how many folks on the forum found the above position to be highly bland?

I'm for it. The girls are physically bigger than the younger guys, so they could hold their own. Working on projects together as Scouts might actually help their social interactions at school. If BSA and GSA merged, we could sell COOKIES instead of popcorn!

Catch 22: Anyone who doesn't have "impure thoughts glancing at the bikini adds on Scouter" is probably gay...

Camp staffer: "Aquatics!" Everybody: "Counts as a shower, right?"

Knee socks give chiggers somewhere to hang out between snacks...

Eagle92, If I have to waste an extra day to pick-up that .00001% of different protocol that someone wrote differently in order to justify their salary; I'm not going to do it. BSA needs to respect my time. My understanding is that NRA classes for Rifle Instructor and Range Safety Officer do not expire as long as you teach at least one course per year. The classes cost from $200 to $300 to take, depending on where you take them. Does anyone know if BSA requires an NRA certified RSO to take Cub Scout Shooting Sports training every two years? ( I bet they do...) They changed how they want the boys to carry their arrows as they walk from the targets to the firing line? Two hands on the arrow shafts is not longer adequate? Whada they want? Three hands?

Eagle92: Gotta disagree. In the shooting sports things don't change. Can you tell me one significant procedural change from ten years ago that affects how you'd run a firing line? Something that can't be communicated in a memo and hence deserves your being retrained? (Things can change for the worse - Nitpicking rules and procedures that add nothing positive to the program.) Actually running a shooting program for a week teaches you way more than you'll ever learn at a certification class. And you remember the lessons learned on the line with first and second graders swarming about. *** The troop has drafted me to get the NRA training for rifle and shotgun. Since NRA certs don't expire if you use them, I'll carry on with the troop. But I'll never squander my time on further BSA short-lived 'training'. BSA claims to want experienced instructors, but them goes out of the way to discourage the people with the experience.

During a recent conversation regarding Shooting Sports Range Safety Officers, our DE mentioned that 'all training expires after two years'. Huh? I told him that I didn't think so. I recalled a topic of conversation during my certification class about being able to stay certified if you taught every year. One instructor posited that you could miss one year, but if you missed two, you would have to get re-trained. I told the DE that I'd look it up and get back to him. Well dang! I was wrong and he was right. All the current literature on shooting sports certification requires re-training every two years. I've got two questions for my wise forum fellows: 1- Has it always been this way, or is re-trainig every two years a recent addition? 2- Why? For the life of me, I can't think of decent reason to require a scouter who has two years experience running an archery or BB range to waste another day getting re-trained. It's not like fiberglass bows and arrows are evolving that quickly. Volunteers willing to cook their brains in the sun for a week are hard enough to entice without adding silly re-training. Nothing I picked up in certification training could not be learned from the Shooting Sports Manual. http://scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor%20Program/pdf/30931_WB.pdf If I had known that it was only valid for two years, I might not have stepped up. As it is, I was illegal for my last year... Oops. The boys loved it.

Moose is right about one thing: Training gives you the means to resist 'the way things have always been.' My first venture into being BSA trained was specifically aimed at refuting the twaddle being pushed on my pack. As to having a full committee; what are there, nine positions now that they have added the Scout Parent coordinator? A meeting of nine folks who all have their own interpretations of what they learned in their BSA training doesn't sound very efficient. It's apt to be drawn out, tangent filled, and poorly attended in the future. Do you want your future committee meetings to be attended by the folks who have the biggest axe to grind, or the effective folks who want to meet, settle the issues, and get back to the boys? I'm pushing for a group of four or five motivated workers who share a common vision. Squabbling over which cow-path we take to get to the barn is useless.

SP - I think your second point about lawyers is most valid. $18.5 million for being molested? Where do I get in line?!? Plus the leftist media needs another arrow to stick into the BSA. After all, we're nothing but a bunch of homophobes. How much is it gonna cost to go through 1200 confidential files and redact all the names? Expect another FOS appeal...

Curious, If she HEARD the impact and SAW the boy in the orange shirt with the hose, why did she drive off without checking for a chip or crack first?

Virtual Troops will meet on whatever replaces Facebook. "Helicopter Parents" will be a paid-for-patch earned by contributing $1000 every year to the rescue fund used to pay for Search and Rescue costs. "High Adventure 1" is the patch you get for being helicoptered out of the back of a city park. "High Adventure 2" is the patch you get for being stoned during the flight...

So the adult awards for actually doing something, getting trained, aren't as important as recognitions from the 'good ole boys'? Aren't there more than a few scouters on this board who seem to be very competent hard workers who are focused on their boys, but who don't stand a chance of getting any recognition from their district? Not that they're the type to care about beads and knots... Knots and speed limits are different indeed, and breaking the speed limit is MUCH MUCH worse than wearing a knot you might not have fully earned. Because your child knows and can plainly see that you're breaking the speed limit (frequently). Your boys will never know that you were one RT short, or that the requirments changed, or that you didn't know the mouse type in the requirements and trusted your CC that two years as CM earned you a knot to go your Boy Scout uniform. Hair splitters amuse me when they parse their words to argue the benefits of hair-spitting.