Gold Winger

Rooster, sorry if you're offended but that's been my experience. Any time a casual acquaintance opens every conversation by asking if you've been saved or by reciting some passage from the bible, it irks me.

It all comes down to the modern idea that every child needs to be able to belong to everything. Soccer, band, Boy Scouts, the Yhatzee club . . . the idea of excluding anyone from anything is just horrific. Everyone is special so no one is special. The grounds for exclusion really don't matter, the fact is that you are excluded from something that you wanted to join. I never lettered in a sport in high school, so I was excluded from the letterman's club on the basis of talent. I can't join the VFW because I was ubnfortunate enough to miss the wars which means that I was fortunate enough to not get shot at. I belong to Mensa which discriminates to the degree that very, very few people can join. Why do so many homosexuals and atheists want to join the Boy Scouts? I'm sure that it isn't for ready access to young men or to convert them into godless unbelievers. It is because BSA has built a reputation and if you earn the honors that BSA offers, it opens doors for a young man. Rather than forming their own organization and trying to build its reputation and status, they'd rather complain. Homosexuals in the troop? As long as he isn't wearing tights and makeup at troop meetings and someone isn't afraid to share a tent with him, I'm not too concerned. Atheists? Most atheists that I've known are as bad as the evangelical Christians for getting in your face. I don't need or want that.

I think that Philmont does that too.

"A Scouters obligation to be trustworthy and obedient is not based on the marches" So if the law required that all Catholics be surrendered to the government for sterilization, a good Scout would turn in his neighbors who were hiding Papists in his attic?

I don't remember too many Republicans saying, "I couldn't figure out how to vote."

Alas Marvlen, justice is in the eye of the beholder. I consider capital punishiment for car theft to be just punishment, others disagree.

I wouldn't admit belonging to a party whose members couldn't figure out how to vote. I'll never forget the woman on the new who said that she punched every hole so she'd be sure that her ballot counted. Now that's something to be proud of!

"Fact is, it's just a children's program, and nobody sweats the small stuff like this. Not worth any time when we could be campin' together" So's basketball but oddly people find it heinous to cheat in that children's program. Strange isn't it? Beaver, the more you write . . . nah, I won't finish that.

Let's see . . . the two guys borrowed it, used it and damaged it. They need to buy their friend a new canoe. One of the reasons that we went to troop owned tents is because of complaints when a Scout would bring his tent back damaged because boys, being boys, would do stupid things.

"Thinking back to when websites were done in Notepad and people actually knew HTML. Am I really that old? " Yep but then again, so am I.

Interesting point of view. If the CO wants to break the rules, that's okay because, even though they agreed to abide by the rules, they are special. It is issues like that this that makes me believe that BSA really needs regulators, referees, inspectors or someone with the power to say, "Hey, that ain't according to the rules stop it or else." Of course the "or else" would have to come swiftly and and stick.

We're not talking about starting a new country here. When we signed up, we said that we'd follow the rules, if we don't like the rules, we're free to leave and start our own game. Basketball coaches don't get to pick and choose which rules they'll use. Some leagues may change the rules but those changes apply to all of the teams in that league. A coach couldn't come to me and say, "Hey ref, I taught my players that they get to take two steps after stopping their dribble. So don't call travelling on them." In Scouting that would be that BSA can have different rules than Scouts Canada. Rules are rules. Your personal code of ethics may obligate to break some of the rules but you must be prepared for the consequences.

Okay, what we have here is an action by the ThrePos, The thread police.

No BeeDubya, the problem is that only you know what the rules are but you won't open your grimoire for others to read.

I go along with the idea that subscription services are not a good idea. What if the company goes under while you're in the mountains? I suppose that my argument against all of these devices is that people will figure that no matter what they do, they are safe. Just like the idiots that get a carry permit and then wander into the wrong neighborhood thinking that their pistol will protect them. Nah, that's where the company of Marines comes into play. Didn't WildernessStudent say something like, "well, we don't need first aid because we'll have cell phones"? That's what is bad.

There's very little debate going on here, OGE. BeeDubya is just being his normal obstinate self.

Being guarded by a company of Marines has been shown to save lives too.

" 10 years from now your Tenderfoot Scouts will be awed by your "antique" uniform!" The two are so similar, I don't if many will notice even 10 years from now.

In BPs original model, boys decided when other boys would advance. I suppose that was taken out of BSA because they feared that boys would be mean to other boys. I know of more than a few adults who interpret "troop committee" to mean "any parent." "Another person suggested that we could invent a new youth position on the troop committee that is a non-voting youth representative position. That boy could then serve on a BOR." Can't do that either because to be on the troop committee you have to be registered at a committee member and you must be 21 to do that. I'd like to see a BOR change somewhat from the rubber stamp "what did you like" interview to a "do you actually know what you are supposed to know" interview. Of course as long as parents run the committees and the ASM are worried about advancment, nothing will happen to slow down the race for Eagle.

Oh good Lord! I thought one of the reasons to go out into the boonies was to be out of touch with the modern world.

"; would be nice to see the Orkin Man-inspired shoulder loop epaulets go. These just look goofy." You are so disingenuous. Orkin man doesn't wear shoulder loops. If anything, the loops were inspired by the "combat leader" loops worn by the Army. I don't care for epaulets and loops since they serve no function and honor no tradition but there is no need to lie about them.

"Gold Winger, So you do try to actively mix ages rather than stick with "buddies"?" I don't do anything but the system I explained allows buddies to stick together but also pulls in kids of other ages. I view the single age patrol to be one of the worst things that can happen to the patrol method. I know that BP said that patrols were groups of friends but he lived in an era when boys of different ages interacted on a regular basis.

"What I got from Council was that in order to maintain 501 © 3 status, Scouts could not just sell stuff." That just flies in the face of reason. Churches just sell stuff, sure they have their big fund raising rummage sales but just about every church has a bookstore and they "just sell stuff." Or was that a typo? " their soliciting donations in any way or form endangers/negates non-profit status." Non-profit and charitable are two different things but let's assume that you meant charitable. Find me a charitable organization that doesn't solicit donatations. If you did mean non-profit that refers to the corporate structure of an organization and I've been on the boards of a few and we always solicited donations. We had lawyers, accountants and even IRS agents involved and no one ever said "boo" about calling up Harry's lumber yard and saying, "Gold Wing of America is building a clubhouse, can you donate some lumber?" Harry would say, "Sure, just put up a sign mentioning me." I'd be willing to be that no one at council really knows the answer, they're just making things up.

"If the business wants to offer you a discount let it be unsoicited from you." How are we supposed to know if we don't ask? I don't know where you live BeeDubya, but a disount and a donation are not the same thing, if they were the discount would have to be reported on somebody's tax forms and they aren't. But its ok if the donation jar is hidden behind the counter. It can be pulled out when the other guy first mentions the word donation. "It is soilicting! It is simply holding out your hand and begging for mony. it is a violation of the BSA fundraising popicies for units. " Once again, where is the solicitation? The guy says, "I'd like to give you some money" and you say "I have a special container. . ." BeeDubya, other than one vague statement on a BSA form, you haven't offered much from BSA policy other than your own interpretations of that vague statement. Maybe you have access to the secret and hidden tomes of BSA Rules and Regulations.

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