Fuzzy Bear

Scout stuff has worth but only to the individual that collects it. It takes times to find those individuals, so you must be willing to take your time to get the most out of it. Start by finding out the market prices. Buy a book and take some time to list the items and prices. Arrange the list by price (*highest to lowest). You will be amazed. Dumping to one individual is the fastest but the return will be the smallest. Ebay is the middle ground but it takes allot of time to post, wait and then package to send. Set up a middle man type system to collect the money. You will be able to sell it all but only at daily market prices. Trade-O-rees are fun but generally you must travel, get a hotel, eat meals out, and then you most likely will not sell it all. You will then be tempted to dump the remainder for a low price. There are a few people that have businesses that will sell it for you and will take out about 25% and give you the rest. They know the current market prices and will handle all of the marketing to shipping. That is the easiest but the return is modest. Look for some individuals in your Council that collects Scout stuff. Talk to them but just talk. Make it clear that you do not intend on selling it. Let them know you are only searching for information. They may give you some insight that you had not considered. One last note: Consider a combination of the above mentioned methods. I have given you several clues. FB FB

DL, (I agree with FS) Your job as SM is to give the Scouts the right to learn to lead. It is painful to watch, so don't. You have other responsibilities. Your time will come during their reflections in the SM conferences where you will find real growth. The same concept works with the committee. You must give them the right to take responsibility for their jobs, which means that they have the right to fail. It is painful to watch, so don't. Take care and do your job, not theirs. Just in case you are confused about the overall role of the committee, you can make suggestions for the agenda but you do not finalize it nor vote on it. The Scouts get to submit their plans for the year but the committee gets the final vote. The reason? It is their job to support you and them. You get a voice and if that voice is not supported, then it will be time to find one that they can support. Or, if they need another CC, then the COR is in attendance and it will become the COR's job to make sure the role is filled. This process is full of surprises and discovery. You will find plenty of wonderful lessons in it and if you write, there will be a book. This is the program. FB

(we didn't need this twice.)(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

John, I agree with your assessment about the shortcomings you described in the training you attended. I have observed the same or similar problems and have been guilty of some of them myself. So: A staff person should have experience and be knowledgeable of the material/program to be presented. The staff needs to attend Train the Trainer type sessions to know how to adequately prepare to teach effectively. The staff should have prepared in general by teaching on the unit and District levels prior to teaching on the Council level and do so regularly. Many that teach over a period of time should develop a trunk of teaching aides to help in any situation. The aides should be up to date and/or in good working order. Being familiar with the Internet and Scouting help sites are now important and should be included in most presentations. Computer aides and Power Point presentations are now important. A $75.00 dollar fee is more than I care to pay for a billion dollar movie with lots of explosions let alone a Scouter that can't be heard and with material that can't be seen or that wasn't well prepared. I am even not sure that there is a training session worth that amount. Moreover, Scout Trainers need one job in Scouting only. People love to join Scouting and become a One Person Band. If a person does the one job that they accept for the year that they are registered and do it well, then that is more than enough for any person. The quality of the work of any one job is proportional to the amount of time spent preparing for the duties of that assignment. The key is to first read and understand the job duties and the related duties of that one job and then engage your skills in such a way and so as to reach those goals with excellence. FB

Comparing the Armed Forces trainer regimen to the CCS trainer regimen appears excessive and may qualify as a genuine rant. Still, hearing and seeing what is being taught is basic to any teaching environment and is considered important even by BSA training standards. Preparing for a class of 25 may exceed most budgets, which are generally nothing. The arrangement of the room may also provide unique problems to most. Generally, rooms are on loan and cannot be rearranged. Equipment is mostly out-of-pocket and the material, even out-of-date material, is given to the instructor by the coordinator of the event, sometimes the night before. The sound system most likely is nonexistent, so sound checks may prove to be futile. These are all problems worthy of note and should be continually addressed but resolutions may remain temporary. The training information is also available at cost to each participant and can always be reviewed after leaving the event to decrease the problems connected to Low Impact Teaching techniques. Effective training is associated with the implementation of the material, even in the BSA but training is thought of as a starting place for service. For those that are still frustrated, there is a great emphasis on friendships and being connected to those with experience in the field to continually fill in the (many) gaps of our training and understanding. My CCS dissertation was written on the Commissioner Service in Rural Scouting areas. I was asked to use it to develop a course by the same name. The basis of the paper and the course had to do with involving these units in the communications network of the Scouting District. Any attempt to involve them in the program of the District significantly improves the units program. How so? It is not primarily because the District has a great program to provide these units. It is because these units have great people that are important to the District. Scouting can be viewed as a family and each member has importance. When we leave off part of the family, we lose something that is necessary for all. FB

Dear I.G., You implied that your SL is being unfair but that may not be the case at all. There may be another explanation for the SL's actions. You may want to address this issue with your parents and later arrange a meeting with the SL, your parents, and yourself. This will allow for both sides to review any difficulties and to express things that might not have been said prior to the meeting. Take care and reserve judgment so as to safeguard your leader's right to lead as well as your rights as a follower. FB

I realize some of these answers have already been given but let me review. Your question addresses utility, so the answer is yes. Your implication and explanation has to do with efficiency, so the answer is no unless you have specific reason to use them. As far as being practical for car camping, the box can be packed with all of the gear for a weekend, then unpacked after returning home to complete cleaning and then repacking for efficient storage. Even when built of lightweight wood or metal with seam reinforcements, these boxes are heavy. The equipment itself is heavy when stacked in one place, so the box will always remain heavy. The box also tends to become a storage receptacle for related but unnecessary items that are only used periodically. The cardboard box has utility for storage, is lightweight, and allows for the grouping of the necessary items for a weekend camp. It is economical but it's longevity in comparison to a wooden box is short. The plastic tub/box has the same characteristics but will last many times longer and can be cleaned periodically and will keep out any pests when sealed. It appears that the Patrol box has limitations that are not easily overcome, save adding wheels and making it into a trailer. The one advantage of the Patrol box over the other boxes is that it can be constructed by the Scouts and then decorated with the Patrol logo for enhancement of Patrol spirit. Since there are other ways to enhance Patrol spirit, even this advantage has its limits. My Dad and I built the Lion's Patrol box that I held onto it after becoming an adult. It now serves as a tool storage bin. I think about our project with fondness. That is the one big advantage of the heavy wooden Patrol box over the best tight sealed, inexpensive, long lasting, lightweight plastic tub but even that can be achieved in many other ways. FB

The committee agenda is set by the CC not the CM/SM. This may reduce what one expects of them (*CM/SM). The CM/SM does not get a vote on any of the issues in the committee meetings. This may further reduce one's perspective of their roles. But, if the agenda and the vote are consistently against the needs of the Unit, as reported by the CM/SM to the CC, then it will be recruitment time all over again. So that is the reason that cooperation and communication between the CC and the CM/SM is essential. These cooperative efforts unite the total group and a team approach is born that neutralizes the One Person Show and makes for an effective way to confront problematic issues. In other words, it is no longer singular but plural (butts) that goes on the line. It makes things very comfortable for the CM/SM and increases the longevity of the individuals in those positions. FB

foto, I am attempting to give guidelines for an Informed Choice rather than engaging in a whirlwind visit that can be easily misleading to young Scouts and their parents, so I agree with your assessment that brief Troop visits are not beneficial. The items that I have listed are things that a unit should be doing, if it is Scouting. If the Webelos want to join in a Scout unit for Scouting, then they must know what questions to ask or what to look for in a Quality Unit. Since it did not appear that I included the parents (see item #7), I would like to emphasize that parents should be included in any or all of interchanges. I would hope the parents are an active part of the Webelos program but if they are not, then the Leader and the Scouts will need to inform them with the proper information. Since you are willing to accept the first offer from any unit, then you may be a proponent of making an uninformed choice. That is of course, your choice. I don't agree for specific reasons. You may be right about the reason for most Webelos making their choice about units. A Leader tells the boys which unit to go to and they go or they take them. It has been my experience in three different Councils and working with lots of Webelos that the majority of them never make it into any Scout unit and if they do, they do not remain for long. Check it out. The transition rate for Webelos to Scouts has been at a low percentage rate for several years. This is a national trend and not just for a few selected areas. There are reasons that Webelos do not go into Scouting and remain when they do go. You may want to reconsider how you approach this problem because it is a problem. I do not believe that I have "the answer" but I believe that information is one way to approach it. Young people and their parents are now Consumers and they are intelligent. I believe that a Scout unit must "sell" their program in a smart way and that begins with information. Boys do have the freedom to move to any other unit when one Troop program is unsatisfactory. But the statistics and my experience show that the Webelos go to other programs other than Scouting. I am suggesting that the Webelos Leader, parents and Webelos be proactive and make an informed choice in the beginning of their search for a unit and not wait. Thank you for your thoughtful response. FB

The top ten indicators that a Troop is Webelos friendly and runs like a real Troop. 1. Go to the Boy Scout Roundtable and announce that you have __ number of Webelos interested in joining a Troop. Good Units attend Roundtable regularly and will respond. 2. Any unit that responds, give them your Scout business card with your phone number, address, fax, and email address. Tell them to contact you after they fax, email or mail you a copy of their last and present Annual Calendars. Good Units plan and communicate effectively. Your Scouts need to know what the unit has done and is planning to do. 2. Ask to speak to the ASM in charge of Webelos to Scout Transition. Good units have one informed person in charge of doing this task. Ask that person to attend one of your meetings to answer questions from your Webelos Scouts. Communication is important and this is the first indication that the unit supports it's own program and is not a one person show. 3. Ask to speak with the Senior Patrol Leader. Request to visit one of their meetings. The SPL is the leader of the meeting and will want the Webelos to be part of the meeting. Good units are enthusiastic to gain new Scouts. The meeting should be orderly and boy-run. The Scouts should be in proper uniform. Patrols should be evident and/or other boy leadership. The ideals of Scouting should also be noted in the closing, opening and periodically during the meeting. 4. Ask to speak with the Committee person in charge of Camping. Ask to see a copy of their camping report for the last year. You will see where the unit goes camping and if most of the troop is interested. If the report indicates that few of the Scouts attend and there are fewer than 10 days and nights of camping, then something is wrong, such as committee support for the program is lacking or the boys are not planning the events and are not interested. 5. Ask to speak with the Committee person in charge of Advancement. Review their advancement report for the past year. Do they advance only when they attend Summer Camp or is advancement the result of a well run and well supported program throughout the year? 6. Ask to speak with the Committee person in charge of membership. There should be a yearly uniform inspection and an Annual membership Inventory and Recharter. Is there a New Scout Patrol for those who join or what method is used to bring new Scouts into the program? 7. Ask the Committee Chairman to attend one of their Committee meetings. Are the Annual Plans being supported or is everything done at the last minute and without the underpinnings needed for a solid program? Ask them how new parents are to be involved in the program. Parental involvement is a sure sign of committee support for an active and full program. Ask if the existing leaders are trained and do they have plans to train old and new leaders 8. Visit with the Chartered Organization's Representative. Is there a good relationship with their partner or is it just a sponsor? Has the Troop done any Good Turn projects for the CO? Is there a yearly Charter presentation and what does the CO do for the Unit? 9. Visit with the SM and ask that individual what their duties are in the organization. If it has to do with training and guiding boy leaders, then ask how that occurs. There should be monthly meetings of the boy leaders and a yearly training session for that training. 10. Evaluate carefully any or all of these indicators with your Webelos Scouts and the parents of those Scouts. Do not take the quick visit or the District tour to look at the "face" of many units. Take your time and be informed before you choose. This will help the Scouts remain in Scouting longer and hopefully arrive at the Aims that Scouting has to offer them. You will have done your job to the best of your ability and the parents will thank you.

It appears that the training for the 21st Century cannot achieve it's aims and is either in trouble or deeply troubled.

If the National Scout Office called you late one evening and said they needed your advice on what constitutes a Quality Unit, what would be on your list? FB

KS, I believe that the mobile module type training that you suggested is available for some of the training already. It is not as extensive as you wrote about but your idea is a worthy consideration. The other part of your idea about using the actual unit elements to check against what should be done is an even better idea than the present method of discussing an element then never checking against anything. One thought that is akin to what you are saying about adult training has to do with the Quality Unit. I have been in on several discussions with people when this idea of what a quality unit should be was being tossed around. There is little agreement on what is a quality unit. The Quality Unit requirements have nonetheless been decided on by somebody and written down. Then the unit is given the quality unit checklist and they are the ones that complete the sheet and they turn it in to the District for credit. When people check their own progress, they tend to forgive or interpret loosely rather than being more rigid. Even when one element requests that a % be in attendance for so many nights of camping, a person that estimates such things will give an answer that generally puts their unit in the positive column. (Note: This is a generalization that may be easily disputed. I have witnessed this exercise with many units over a number of years and the outcome appears to be always the same. This is the reason that I can testify of this behavior but I still could be wrong.) If we are talking about a Scout passing a requirement for a basic Progress award, then this action is similar in nature. If the book says to demonstrate and the Scout shows that he can actually do the request, then the instructor signs that requirement off. The Scout is thought of as being proficient and is not ever tested again. I personally feel that this method reduces the learning curve to a minimum and undermines long-term skill acquisition. Overall, it is a philosophy that stresses looseness in meeting requirements or a type of learning methodology from the adult level to the Scout level that appears to be insufficient. It is hoped that through repetition of training and the use of those "learned" skills and the eventual reuse of those skills that learned acquisition will be achieved some time in the distant future. This may be the skill that Trainers and UC's are to learn from the existing program. FB

In the original Star Wars saga, Princess Leia Organa was to be rescued by Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. She still must use her talent, wit, charm, and intelligence to escape the clutches of Darth Vader and the evil Empire with all the help provided. She is insightful and instrumental in each step along the route to eventual victory over the forces of evil and does it while remaining beautiful. She does not receive a medal for her services because of her real leadership role throughout the adventure. She even settles on marriage to the clown that rescued her. She is a leader that was unselfish in her giving to others for the sake of what is Good. FB

I have enjoyed being allowed to camp here and I appreciate the opportunity. I would like to thank Terry. I have learned from the other members, even the ones I disagreed with but sometimes I felt that there needed to be an official to call 'roughing the passer' or unnecessary roughness. Even when the calls were made, I have not always agreed with them but the game has been very fair. When a call was made it was done with good intent, good oversight and with a good explanation. When someone was thrown out, it may have been past time to act on the behalf of the community but once again, it was done rationally and with the intent to preserve what was here for now and later. As for the Scouting archive concept, I understand that there needs to be some care in delivering good information to a reader but with the openness there must be a balance which takes a discerning eye to remove extraneous material when necessary. Any researcher must also be knowledgeable and be willing to censor as they read to write. If this site were to contain only mainline Scouting material, then it would be best to write or cite present day Scouting literature in response to all questions with little need for most of our musings. That is not what has occurred, there are many things here that are based on opinion and/or personal experience and may not be helpful to the novice or anyone else but that material is here. Even with the amount and kinds of things that are written, I would challenge any individual to do a search on any Scouting subject in this Forum and to survey the depth of the information. Compare your results to the accusation of censorship that I also have brought up before and see if that is valid. You will find great information from many perspectives, websites for further information and all of the bickering. If you are reading here to write something of value, you will find some of the in-fighting interesting but most likely you will also toss it out as being unnecessary. OGE and HOPS should be commended on their restraint or careful use of locking threads and their willingness to accept the responsibility of officiating with the resulting pressures from making strategic calls. Some may feel bored because the fireworks display is not always at its' zenith but there are other places to go for that kind of entertainment. The Internet is huge and has room for almost any interest. Once again I want to thank the officials for maintaining a good game yet giving us latitude. FB

Dan, That was a quote from me. I took the old course in the last part of the last century (* I can't believe I can say that!). I am an Eagle Scout and thought I knew how Scouting was run but from the perspective of a youth. WB gave me a greater understanding of the program even though I had held almost every Boy Scout leader office as a youth, participated and lead JLT's and I read the books as well. When I entered Scouting as an adult, I figured it was just an extension of what I had been doing in the past but that was not the case. (* I thought I really did know it all, so I was a pain to those that did know.) I did not study to be a manager in school nor did I ever have the interest, so I missed whatever it was that several of you studied but that is not the point. I was taught at WB that there is a Wheel of 11 skills that has balance when used effectively and checked regularly for any task. That principle changed the way I approached Scouts, Scouters and my job in Scouting. It made me into the kind of leader that Scouts and adults responded to and it allowed me to do my job in Scouting much better. A couple of years after WB, I applied for a job as a teacher and was asked to write about how I would approach my duties. I had not studied for that profession, so I wrote about the WB Wheel and education. I got the job and then used the Wheel of skills to become very effective. I could go on and tell you many more stories about how WB and the 11 skills of Leadership helped me but I won't take that chance. I want to tell you a little about the staff. I wrote my Ticket and Jack, my CC, had me trash it and begin again. He took me through it step by step over coffee. He later approved it and I worked it in six months and received my beads. Jack required that I hold myself to a higher standard, so I kept him updated on my progress. I learned from him and we became friends. Each person on the staff was willing to help me or befriend me in any way they could from that day forward. I have called my SM for advice on occasion and he responded the same way as our first meeting. (*He is almost BP or what I think of as the Great One.) I have several other stories how these guys pulled for me when I was down but I won't go there right now. I count my friends in life as blessings. I count the knowledge and experiences in my life as blessings also. WB changed me and I am thankful. I am not open to change my opinion on that issue. I hope the best for you and yours during this joyous season. Merry Christmas, FB (This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

Dan, I reread your listing of votes for changes in the WB training. I would like to clarify or define my writing and thinking style. I identify a problem and write about it from my perspective. What that means is that it has several limitations because I am thinking about specific instances and specific people from my past and present experiences. I also do not believe I have cornered all of the present Scouting literature and training as of this reading. That means I do not have "the answer". I might have one or two good answers but I am not a black and white, right or wrong, either/or type person. I realize many would like to see one good Book answer to resolve all situations but my experience here in this very Forum with several very good Answer People, both present and past, have demonstrated that many Scouting answers have depth and breadth. That indefinite kind of knowledge may leave some people with a feeling of insecurity but it does little more than stimulate me to think and look beyond. I like to share and exchange ideas with other people. I expect others to not necessarily know the answers either or that we can necessarily come up with a correct answer. When a person says there is only one answer, I wonder about what has been said or if they will allow me to question their answer. I hope by writing and sharing (*back and forth exchanges) that we can arrive at better and different perspectives that we have not imagined before or would have arrived at on our own. I want to clarify another point so that someone does not jump on it. Yes there are many answers that are black and white in Scouting and sometimes I miss those answers and need to be corrected. Sometimes I miss the easy Book answers because I have an out of date printing or a memory based on some past training or I am just wrong. So, I appreciate it when someone points out my limitations on answers that have limits. I have learned to forgive myself and others right here in this Forum because of my own failings (*ask Eamonn). This was an unexpected Christmas gift that has been very meaningful to me. So, what I would like to say is that everyone that shares here is important to me and I would like to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas. I also hope that all of us have a Happy New Year by finding The Answer for us to remain here by this Campfire of Understanding. FB

There are good ideas here and I want to thank you all for your answers, even though this is not my thread. In the last few months as I started in this District, the DC gave me two units to Commission. I don't have much time, so he gave me a 'minimal' assignment. I called the CM and later the SM and spoke with them individually. I then briefly visited a couple of their meetings to bring them information. Each had never seen a Commissioner, nor knew what to expect. I spoke to them about a few things that I could do for them and if they wanted me to do anything immediately. Neither knew what to ask, probably from shock. (*What? A Commissioner!!) Later I spoke with the ADC about these two units and she told me that the reason I was appointed to those units was because they were entrenched with strong leadership and had been for the past few years and both were "intractable". So, I have decided that it will just take time and many visits with each leader, the COR's, the CC's to get to know everybody well. I recognized that both of these strong leaders (CM and SM) have weak COR's and CC's. In both cases, the people in those positions were related to the leaders and disconnected from the unit. One thing that I can take from here is to attempt to engage those that are weaker and willing to listen back into the BSA training. I can also take some of my own advice and be patient. BP said something like you can start a fire with wet (or green) wood but it just takes longer. I suppose this fire will just take more than three matches. Merry Christmas, FB

Your frustration over your results in your job at Roundtable has been noted. Without knowing what you are doing or how you are implementing those things, makes it hard to give you specifics. I have run a successful Roundtable, so I will communicate things that worked for me. I tried to obtain all of the training available, including Philmont leader training for Roundtables. After the training, what did I feel was the key ingredient? Friendship. I got to know each and every person at the Roundtable and not at the Roundtable and communicated with them face to face whenever I could. There are many aspects of running a successful Roundtable. I occasionally sent out fliers and occasionally phoned but some firmly believe that communication is the key. One instructor at Philmont said that "making it the second best show in town" was the key. You make it the second best because everything you do accentuates the Troops program. Another said that it was food and yet another said that is was only the program. I relied heavily on "knowing and using my resources" to make a good program. I knew leaders in the district that had special skills and then called on them to present. I had food that fit the occasion and the leaders; some were LDS and had special food preferences. I also had an open jar for donations. (*I never asked for donations but there was always enough in the jar to cover the costs.) I wanted people to have the important information, so some announcements were made in the meeting to allow for questions and answers but every announcement was printed. My best results came when Roundtable was my only job in Scouting. I prepared the whole month by getting volunteers for programs, visiting leaders to talk to them about the program, and rounding up food. I listened to what they said and noted their needs for special program ideas. If the ideas or concerns were things that I could achieve at Roundtable, I planned to give them an answer. If their needs were greater, then I communicated with the DC or the DE. I then asked that person to follow-up with the leader about that leader's concerns. If we noted it at Roundtable, then I visited with that person afterwards to make sure we answered their question. "Access" is a funny word and generally not used in Scouting. I use this word allot in my occupation, so I am familiar with it. I think that we should use the word "access" more to insure that what we are doing in any of our jobs in Scouting fits the individual. I realize it sounds like a tall order but it makes us reach out to others to find what they need to do their job. We then make it our job to make it available and make it so they can use it. You may ask what is "it". To find out that answer, you must visit with the leaders to find their definition of what "it" is and that takes time. It also takes effort to make sure they have it and that they can use it. (Note- I would like to extend this but I have said enough.) I hope you can use some of my experience to make your job more successful. Merry Christmas, FB

Welcome, Beyond the payback, I hope that you find enjoyment in being part of a great program, as I have. I also hope you find that the information you read here is a helpful part of all that you are doing. Everyone here wants to give beyond their jobs in Scouting. I have been enriched with so much insight in the many stimulating and sometimes difficult conversations, as I know that you may be. Merry Christmas, FB

My older brother had a subscription and I couldn't wait to get my own BL and join Scouts. As an adult, I continued with my subscription and I also began collecting them. (Note-my first collection was a Wolf project, rocks in an egg container. So I blame my Den Mother, Mrs. C. for this activity.) My BL collection has lead me into many interesting adventures, to be recounted another time. I love to look at the old issues and copy advice and how-to's out of them. There are stories and all kinds of fun and exciting things in BL, even today! I also collect Pedro things, you know, the Corny Donkey. I am kind of amazed that Scouting has done this to me. Would I ask someone else to have this much and this kind of fun? Sure. The question of worth can now be addressed. Yes it is. (Reason, you forgot the reason.) Oh yea, it is fun, great fun. Merry Christmas FB

Sixteen years is not a lifetime but it is long enough to have a nice sized history with allot of emotion. All of those emotions are attached to events and people. For something on that order, it calls out for a banquet. The food is not as important as who comes, so don't be afraid to Potluck it. Memories can be recreated by having tables of things collected and pictures, videos, albums of memories. Speeches should be made by key persons, short but to the point, remembering specific events. Let the SM give his last SM's minute at the end. Take a year to plan it. Recruit a Banquet Committee of active and former Scouts and Leaders. Involve the SM in an oral history. Record it and outline it. Gather pictures from him and his family. Then move on to others that were close to him. Make a scrapbook of copies of the information. Use the information to contact past Scouts and Scouters and later make it a gift. Ask each Patrol to be part of the event in some way. Have the Planning Committee meet once every other month to check on the progress. Gifts can also be donations to favorite charities and then a certificate can be given to honor that donation. Young and old may have something important to say so record the banquet as well for a gift afterwards. A banquet gives focus and reminds a person of the joy and growth that has been shared over the years. Take your time and give it your best. Many things will fall out of the planning process that you didnt expect. All of the efforts will be fully appreciated and well remembered not only by the SM but by the youngest Scout. Merry Christmas, FB

Semper, I really like your idea but I would not want the US government to pay for a Scouting holiday. It is expensive and many in the Nation are not attached to Scouts and would fight it. I would want to avoid any of those types of repercussions for such an idea. I would much rather the volunteers throughout the nation contribute one vacation day to a Scout Good Turn day. This would then take on a grass-roots effect that demonstrates our commitment to an ideal that goes beyond government intervention. It would be giving without expecting anything in return, giving because it is right, and sharing with others because it is a concept that has no borders or laws. It would be like Christmas but for those in need. Merry Christmas, FB

Ed, How do yo do that smiley face with the wink? FB

So, we have enough training to choke the horse that comes to drink. Now, what about those leaders that still decides that the program should be done their way, instead of the BSA way. The Commissioners are told to observe and encourage better behavior or to coach the wayward leaders back to training. But, you have an Eagle Scout that is a leader and has all of the training, including the WB beads or a Type A with patches to prove it and is doing it "his way". Do you really think more training is the key? It is continually pointed out here that all of the training is incomplete and that one can never be trained enough. It appears that the answer is circular thinking. Here is what it looks like: A person is recruited and trained. That person runs his/her own show. It is observed that he/she is running their own show. Let's have more training for him/her. The person goes to training but continues to do more of the same. The end result is to cover the person in Trained patches and eventually make a Commissioner out of him/her so they can tell others how they did it in the past. Sorry, I am a little frustrated. Merry Christmas, FB