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"I guess I don't see what the big deal is with the unit number color change." I have to wonder what the reaction was back in the 50s when National got rid of the unique unit numbers & community/state strips for cub scouts, explorers, and air explorers (everyone to use white on red strips and numbers regardless of the program). Did people go out and stock up on the older patches to enable them to keep using them? Did people (or units) look for new sources? Did people b*tch & moan about the changes at roundtables and the like? I've found some of the reaction to the change over... bizarre. If its not Boy Scout types clinging to using the red loops, etc, its the Cub Scout types arguing about what type of unit numbers to wear on the cub scouter uniform.

"I am surprised the Boy Scout MB Counselor form says nothing about this." Why? The form was created for MBC. No one ever bothered to update it for Venturing. "Not to be dense, but if one is a First Aid MB counselor is one also accepted as a Venture First Aid consultant or does one submit another MB counselor form marked Venture First Aid consultant?" Ok, first off let's deal with terminology. "Venture" is a Boy Scout program that has nothing to do with us in Venturing. Please don't use "Venture" when you mean "Venturing". The terms aren't interchangable. Back to your question. AFAIK, I wouldn't assume that one is a 1stAid MB counselor that the person is also a 1stAid consultant for Venturing. The person signed up for 1A MBC may only be interested in being that, and may not know about Venturing or care to be it. Typically, for Venturing we are looking for the next level of 1stAid (Wilderness First Aid, etc). Now, if someone is already on record as being a MBC and now also wants to be a Venturing Consultant, I don't see the need to do another form, unless your council wants to keep records on who is signed up for Venturing consultants. The forms is mainly to get them into the BSA registration system. A council's list of MBC is usually separate. So your list of Venturing consults (and what they do) is going to likewise be separate.

"Have not seen any online forms for "consultants" but I will dig some more." There are none. If you read the Venturing advancement program, we speak of consultants all the time. We don't expect the advisors of the crews to be SME (subject matter experts) on all the things the youth want to do, hence the need to engage outside experts to help out. These are your consultants. They are registered with the BSA as 'merit badge counselors' (ie, a no-cost registration). So consultants may be a one-time thing, or someone in the area that is a known resource for all Venturing (say

It can be adults in the crew. I don't think the idea of other crew members (youth) would be acceptable. We don't have merit badge counselors in Venturing. What we do have are 'counsultants'. They are, in fact, registered the same as MBC. Counsultants are outside experts in a certain area. So if you crew was interested in climbing, you might engage a local climbing instructor and he'd be the consults. Same for something like SCUBA or the like. So the consultant for a particular area could sign off on requirements.

FWIW the camp in question is the Baden-Powell Scout Reservation, aka Camp Shands, which is North Florida Council's main council camp, and where they run their summer camp.

Not sure if this is what you are looking for. A lot of the old sea scout manuals and such had a lot of program resources. take a look at the various requirements and see what can be turned into challengers/games. * first aid quizes * knot challenges * ring toss * sailboat identification * boxing the compass * navigation etc.

"Wasn't it Clifton Webb in Mr. Scoutmaster who tells his secretary to call his tailor and have them "run up a few Boy Scout uniforms" for him when he accepted the position?" Been awhile since I've seen the movie, but, yeah, I believe that's so. Of course, this was back when adults wore uniform coats, which Webb wore.

"Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I was wondering if it's part of the basic Scoutmaster/adult leader training curriculum, or just something taught in specialized courses - Trainers EDGE, Wood Badge, etc. - which not everyone takes. "If it's not integrated into the basic training program, I fail to see how it can be included as part of the basic Scouting rank requirements. Imagine a Scout turning to a Scoutmaster and inquiring: "What's this EDGE thing?" and the SM not having a clue." Someone already answered by adult basic training. EDGE is also part of NYLT. Uncertain about TLT. Trainers EDGE is intended for all people who staff training courses, both youth and adult, btw. And just about everyone should be taking WB, including unit level scouters (SM & ASM), despite the comments of some...

There are also resources from National for use in Ordeals. There was a nice booklet put out in 1990 called "Managing Elangomat Ordeals" that gave some ideas. This has been made available in the Lodge Resource materials.

Have you contacted our National Museum: http://www.bsamuseum.org/ They have an archive and be able to help you.

I went to the WOSM website and went into the events list. It lists the 13th Panamerican Scout Jamboree in Mexico, 26 Dec. 09 - 3 Jan. 10, 2009. Location is Toluca, Mexico. No other data. I did a google search, but didn't come up with a website or anything. Scouts Mexico site is here: http://www.scouts.org.mx/

A bit of advice: don't do hiking chants. When I went to Philmont, my crew saw quite a bit of wildlife on our hikes from campsite to campsite. Because we were fairly quite. Another crew in our contingent complained to us that they never saw any wildlife. We discovered why when we happened to encounter them on the trail: they were doing hiking chants (mainly because the crew leadership were ROTC-types). Which scared away any wildlife they might see. For myself, hiking chants do zilch for moral. They are more about keeping up your pace, which is really not needed when you are taking a nice hike thru the woods.

"Is TLT mandatory for youth leaders?" There are no courses mandatory for youth leaders. TLT is done within the troop. Ideally ALL youth leaders will go thru it. "Is EDGE a part of adult leader training aside from Wood Badge?" Yes. Trainers EDGE is the new 'train the trainer' course for both youth and adult trainers. In fact, Trainers EDGE is a required course for the new National Youth Leadership Society for Venturers.

"Someone posted a rumor a couple weeks back that Wilderness First Aid was going to be added as a requirement for Star." On one level that might sound like a great idea, on another its a very bad idea. The availability of WFA in many areas is extremly poor. In the council next door, they have someone who offers it twice a year. It takes a whole weekend to do. AFAIK, no one offers it in my council. I try to find out when its being offered so that the Venturers and others in my council know about it and take advantage of it. I would certainly like to see any scout about the rank of First Class, and any Venturer going after the Outdoor Bronze to have it. But there aren't enought opportunities for them to get it.

I don't know of any rule or policy that says Vigil names are 'supposed' to be Lenni Lenape. Many are. Many aren't. My lodge started using Muscogee words for Vigil names a long time back.

To me, a 'wide game' is a huge game aimed at getting everyone at an event involved and meeting each other. I first encountered these at the National Jamboree in 1981. They had done these at prior Jamboree, and would do so at future ones, but I think they dropped them at the most recent couple of ones. (they tried doing this a few times at NOAC, but with less success, as I recall). All of these were card trading games. You were given a set number of cards, all the same. You had to complete the set by trading ALL the cards with other people. The other cards were held by people from other subcamps, so you had to get out and met people from other subcamps (the cards had a place to put your name and contact info). Completing the set got you the wide game strip, which was designed to go with your jamboree patch and 'complete it'. For some reason they didn't do this in 1989, instead apparently having a small shuttle pin that went on the patch. The last 3 jamborees they had several patches that went around the patch, but only the youth participants got them.

Yes, there can be mistakes on the National website. In the version they had two revisions back, they used to have a set of pictures that randomly showed of scouts/scouters. One was of a Wood Badge staff wearing the green shirt and red loops. I brought this to the attention of the Venturing Division and they took it down. I spoke with someone high up in the supply division who told me that the gray switchbacks were coming in August. He was not misinforming me, but things could change.

$15 is pretty good. I don't think any of my other groups are that cheap. Most of the groups I'm part of have raised their dues in the last few years. I'm paying anywhere from $25 to over a hundred for membership in certain groups. If units are concerned, they can cover this by doing fundraising.

Adults can (and should) get BSA Lifeguard. BSA Lifeguard is not quite equivalent to ARC Lifeguard. It includes a lot of waterfront training that is totally absent in ARC Lifeguard. ARC Lifeguard is fine for lifeguarding at a pool, but will not prepare you to be a lifeguard at a waterfront for swimming or boating. (so, no, one with ARC Lifeguard can't just be given BSA Lifeguard). NOW, I thought that the BSA DID allow for people who had ARC Lifeguard to be the lifeguard during scouting events, but only at a pool. Not sure. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can give chapter & verse.

AFAIK, adults don't wear recruiter patches. Was this a recruiter STRIP or a recruiter PATCH. If it was a strip, it goes below the pocket, if its a larger size patch, it should go on the pocket.

The purpose of the "Retired" patch is for retired PROFESSIONAL scouters, not us volunteers. Thing is, when a volunteer 'retires' from a position, they no longer hold it, so should no longer wear the insignia for that position.

I have and have read both his books. I think these are the best books about scouting in the last few years.

A google search on Mitch Reis gives me his site: http://mitchreis.com/

Building off of what ScoutNut said. The BSHB, SMHB, and such has basic information on the Venture Patrol. The patrol is just a group of older boys (13 and up) who can do their own activities separate from the troop. Your troop needs to decide which of the 2 ways it will run the patrol: 1. as another patrol along side the New Boy Patrol and other patrols. 2. as a patrol which only exists to plan and carry out Venture Patrol activies. For all other troop activities, the boys remain in their regular patrols (for in-patrol activities, troop activities, etc). Ideally, a Venture Patrol activities will last over a 3 month period for planning, preparationa, and then execution of the Venture Patrol activity (trip, etc). After this the cycle will restart with a new activity. For each cycle, the membership of the patrol can change (some boys may decide to opt-out of that activity), a new PL will be decided, etc. These 'venture patrol activities' can be high-adventure or sports. Such as: * a trip to a national high adventure base like Philmont, Northern Tier, or Florida Sea Base or trip to a high adventure program in your council or another council. * a high adventure trip such as hiking a National Scenic Trail. * participate in a bowling league etc There is a series of 3 books with info on canned programs for Varsity Scout Teams & Venture Patrols that can help.

Actually, they did have insignia guides before 1974. But they are harder to find. I have a "Uniforms/Insignia Guide" dated 1966. And seen older editions listed. Also, Mitch Reis is currently working on a new edition of his Guide to Dating uniforms and insignia, but the third edition is still available from him at this website.