emb021

"The you got a few folks at national supply who just don't have a clue. 2 examples of this is the Totin Chit and Whittlin Chit patches that national sells. basically they saw other badge companies makign them, and wnated a peice of the pie. These two items are shaped to go on the right pocket flap, whic is reserved for the CS outdoor award and/or CS Sumemrtime pin, or an OA flap, and nothing else. yet you see these two items." Those patches are shown in the Insignia Guide, but NOT mention of there proper location. HOWEVER, at the begining where they speak of temporary insignia, they note that the Totin chit patch goes ON the right pocket. Adding to your comments are other mistakes by National Supply, such as when they made office patches for OA Lodge and Chapter Chief without approval of the OA, then recently did this for National and Regional OA chiefs.

I thought OA Brotherhood requirements were clearly set down in the Handbook. Basically, to become Brotherhood you need to: * be an Ordeal member for atleast 10 months * show that you know the admonition, song, oath * should you made a special effort to serve there troop/team, BUT there is no one checking/approving/verifying it. Its on your honor. In the old days you used to have to write a letter to your Lodge Chief. AFAIK, its no longer required. It was only a formality. They used to do 'Brotherhood counseling', and had a list of questions candidates should know. I think most of that has fallen by the wayside. NO ONE approves or elects Brotherhood members. In most cases, if you've been an Ordeal member 10 months, you get to become Brotherhood.

"the hot-glue that is embedded in the patches for my son's Cub Scout uniform works better than I expected." There is no 'hot glue' embedded in patches. The plastic backing of patches is done to prevent the patch from unraveling, NOT as a means of attaching it to the shirt. This is why the BSA sells the "Badge Magic" stuff to attach patches. Personally, I won't use the stuff. I used something similiar when I was a scout, and it didn't work to well. I prefer all my patches to be sewn on.

Also in the on-line version: http://www.scouting.org/media/insigniaguide/05B.aspx Note: Cub Scout advancement badges and emblems must be attached directly to the uniform.

"I knwo that some have mentioned that all rank and insignia have to be sewn on/attached directly to the uniform." I mentioned that, over in the Insignia area were we were speaking of Insignia. I also mentioned in my posting where it said that. It was a Note, given in the Cub Scout area, along with the Cub Scout advancement, so, shortridge, it is a 'rule'. I didn't see it noted in the Boy Scout area, so I mentioned in my posting that maybe it was a reaction against the plastic award holders for cub scout rank out there.

"There is no Key Three as pertains to Sea Scouting." Yes there is, and I gave it. It's just not required like it is for Key 3 for Council & District. And as I said, for a one ship council, I think it would be overkill. But we do speak of 'key 3's where it related to OA, Venturing, and Sea Scouting. "If you have a lot of ships in your council, you can have a wardroom, a flotilla or squadrons, but those have nothing to do with the Key Three, council or district." Uh, you're mixing several different things. A wardroom is usually a roundtable for Sea Scout leaders. Flotilla is what is known as the Region within Sea Scouts. Most regions have a commodore, boatswain, and staff director. Squadron is the council organization for Sea Scouts, which is your council sea scout committee. So at a minimum you'd have a commodore and staff director, if not also a boatswain. So you would have a 'sea scout key 3', or be working toward it.

There is a chapter in "Here's Venturing: District & Council Support for Venturing" on Sea Scouting. For Sea Scouting support at the council level, you have basically 2 choices: * Ships are supported just like any other unit. * a council Sea Scout Committee is formed, headed by a Commodore (aka the committee chair). IF there is a Council Venturing Committee, the Sea Scout Committee sites under it, otherwise it would be another committee under Program. The Committee would provide training and program support for ships in the council. Since you only have 1 ship, having a committee seems overkill. However, having some group of people supporting sea scouting CAN help in growing the sea scout program. Otherwise you have people with little or no idea of Sea Scouting (or carrying about it) promoting the program, providing training, program support, etc. Oh, to answer your original question, the Key 3 in Sea Scouting, at least at the council level, would be (these are the traditional titles): * Squadron Commodore (aka Council Sea Scout Committee Chair) * Portmaster (aka Council Sea Scout professional) * Squadron Boatswain (youth, either elected or appointed) BTW, the Portmaster can be a DE with other duties. In the 2 councils I work with, the responsibility of Sea Scouting is just another duty for the professional.

Here is a page on the National website about the Young American Award, along with the app: http://www.scouting.org/Awards/YoungAmericanAward.aspx

AFAIK, the YAA is based on applications submitted by youth, not an award the council would just give out to a 'great student'. There is a form/application for it. One thing about the YA Award that many don't know is that applications need not be involved in the BSA.

In re-reading the Insignia Guide, I've noticed several little points where they point out bad uniforming. Kind of a step in the right direction, but sometimes they are hidden in the wrong place. Pg 4. Excess Insignia. In addition to the point about temporary patches (but not rank, and they really need to also point out not other awards) being worn on the back of the merit badge sash, we are told the merit badge sash is *never* (emphasis in the guide) worn on the belt. Nice, but really need this note with the info on merit badge sashes in the BS section. Temporary Insignia- Good explanation of temporary insignia. But buried in it is the note that totin chip patches are also temporary insignia. Uh, again nice, but since they give Whittlin Chip and Firem'n chip patches later on (but no totin chip patches), they need to give that info there. It will be overlooked here. Pg 11- Cub Scout Advancement. There is a little note that Cub Scout advancement must be attached directly to the uniform. I guess this is a prohibition on using plastic patch holders and the like. However, the CS Immediate recognition emblem and Webelos compass point emblem hang from the button. Isn't that a violation of that note? Pg 20- World Crest. I love the added info here. "Nothing to earn. Wear on all uniforms. Just purchase and wear." Pg 25- Eagle Palms. More info on wearing Palms for those who don't understand that you don't wear every single one you get. Pg 31. A note that the WB patrol medallion is only worn during the WB course. Something that a lot of adults need to understand. Pg 42- Shoulder loops, specifies that chartered org reps wear silver. A lot don't understand this that COR are council-level people. Pg 45- Unit Commissioner. States that you don't wear unit numbers. Assigned to more then one unit. Pg 52- knots. Good note about the devices worn on the youth religious knot that many don't understand. Pg 53- OA. Notes on the sash about it not being worn on the belt, not worn with merit badge sashes, and NO sashbacks to be worn. Pg 54- Regional insignia. Note here for awhile on who gets to wear regional patches. But many don't bother to read it. Pg 55- Flags. A note here about saluting. I don't recall seeing this in past editions. States that the hand-to-forehead salute is appropriate when wearing any BSA uniform, including the blue blazer dress uniform.

"The merit badge sash is never worn on the belt." Always been the policy, but not sure when they started to state this. Of course, you still see scouts doing this (just check the pictures in BL & S). "Temporary patches may be worn on the back of the MB sash." This was a change in policy a few years back. Not sure off the top of my head when this was added. Used to be you couldn't do this, then they changed it. However, some kids don't get it that awards (50 miler, scuba, mile swim, etc along with rank) aren't temporary patches... "The OA sash is not worn with the MB sash." Always policy, but not sure when they added it in. I also saw a note in the Venturing area that Venturers can wear the merit badge sash. Don't recall that in the last version. I also forgot some other position patches they left out: Area, Council, and District Venturing President patches. We've had these for 2-3 years, and they still don't list them (but then, they only included the National & Regional Venturing Presidents in the last edition).

Got my copy of the new edition. I actually collect Insignia Guides, and while I don't have my previous edition with me, I do see a lot of changes. BUT, I also see a lot of mistakes. Overall, a poor editing job. Others have commented about the confusion about Cub Scout Leader uniforms. Frankly, if you went by the guide (ignoring the color insert), you would be under the impression that Cub Scout Leader & Webelos don't wear the new Centennial Uniform. Sloppy editing, IMO. So, new/different things I've noticed, along with mistakes. Pg 3- Badges of Other Orgs. This section now says that if you earned a religious award while in another program (ie GSUSA, Camp Fire, Sunday School) you may wear the medal and even knot. Something I've always figured was the way to go. Also, female venturers can wear their GS Gold Award on the left pocket. Pg 15- finally they list the Good Turn for America Award and state its worn on the right pocket. However, they don't list this award anywhere else. Sooo, are we to assume only Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, and Webelos can earn it??? Same for the BSA Physical Fitness Award on this page. Pg 16- Whittling Chip is listed as a patch. Interesting. But no info on where its to be worn or by who. Big mistake. Pg 18- Varsity strip. Since this is only worn by Varsity Scout, how about removing it from the Boy Scout section? Also, it says its orange on tan, while in the Varsity section is says its red on tan. Which is correct? (have only every seen red on tan). Pg 27- The NYLT and NAYLE patches are shown, but no numbers, and more importantly, no info as to who wears them and where. Varsity Letter. As this item, AFAIK, is only earned and worn by Varsity Scouts, how about removing this from the Boy Scout section? Also, now we have a Firem'n Chit patch, but no Totin' Chip patch. And no info on where its worn. Pg 28- Varsity Scout Activity pins. Again, as these AFAIK are only earned by Varsity Scouts, how about moving this out of the Boy Scout section and putting in with the Varsity Scout stuff. Pg 32- Properly, its "OA Team Representative". How about showing the patch? Pg 33- ok, this may be stupid on my part, but is there any reason why the sleeve drawings here DON'T show the American Flag, a CSP, and a unit number like all the others do?? Pg 34- the Ranger bar is not training. Move it to advancement with the Ranger Award. Pg 35- ok, they included the Kodiak, Kodiak Staff, and Kodiak X patches (with no info on location). But left out the Kodiak X staff patches. For the Kodiak bear claw, they show the kodiak logo. Mistake. Also, its it ok to wear the Kodiak medals from the left pocket?? Pg 36- the list of other items that Venturers can received is missing a few- BSA Physical Fitness, BSA Emergency Prepardness, Good Turn for America. Typo here with the Trained strip. Says "Elected Venturers who have completed the crew officers' seminar may wear the Trained Leader emblem abover their badge of office on the left pocket flap". Uh, we don't wear office patches on the left pocket. And our left sleeves don't have a pocket. And I've never understood if Venturers can wear both the Trained strip and the VLSC strip together. Pg 42 First off, we have the Emergency Preparedness Award which, according to this can be earned by Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, Webelos Scouts, and Boy Scouts. Uh, what about Varsity Scouts, Venturers, and adult leaders??? I also noticed some problems with the sleeve diagrams. 1) For illustration purposes, they show the office patch on the old uniform higher then usual. They indicate the top of the patch should be 4 inches below the seam, as always, but the drawing shows it very close to the CSP. Am sure a lot of people are going to ignore it and wear it too close (same problem with the World Crest where people go by the illustration and not the written discription). Also, because of the left sleeve pocket, the location positions have changed. Please note this: Old sleeve *Position 1- CSP *Position 2- unit numbers *Position 3- office patch (4 inches below seam) *Position 4- trained strip Centennial sleeve *Position 1- CSP *Position 2- unit numbers (or commissioner arrowhead) *Position 3- left sleeve pocket flap- trained strip *Position 4- left sleeve pocket- office patch Soooo, depending on the uniform, the office patches will be in position 3 or position 4. However, for the the rest of this section, all office patches are listed as position 3. Next, I noticed the colors given for the shoulder loops. Boy scout loops are given as "Boy Scout green (forest)" and Venturing are given as "Venturing green" (early on they were called spruce green). Personally, I felt that forest and spruce green were one and the same, and referred to the new BS green as 'olive green'. Oh, well. Lastly, the position of the commissioner arrowhead has changed. Most know that on the new uniform, its worn above the left pocket, where the unit numbers usually go. Welll, on the old uniform, you now wear the arrowhead ABOVE the trained strip (but below the office patch). Lovely. Pg 43. Left out the position of Area Venturing Committee. Pg 44. Left out the positions of Council Venturing Chair and Council Venturing Committee. Pg 50. Jamborees. I don't think I've ever seen them show two National Jamboree emblems. They usually only shown the most recent (usually past) World and National Jamborees. Pg 51. Knots. They put back the Exploring Achievement knot. They speak of "First Silver" and "Second Silver". Properly, they should speak of the Explorer Silver Award. The medals were in 2 versions, but that doesn't matter. As noted, new knots are listed here and on the back, including the NESA Eagle knot, Philmont knots, speakers bureau knot, and Doctorate of Commissioner Science. Pg 53. There are patches for Associate Lodge and Chapter advisers. These should be listed. I see they note the OA sash is never worn on the belt or with the merit badge sash. Always been so, but don't recall seeing it said in the Insignia Guide.

"Snooping in the Guide, I can't find reference to the Girl Scout Gold Award. What page is that on?" Page 3, in the "Badges of Other Organizations" section. It's at the end. While that section has been in the guide forever (?), the last paragraph speaking about the religious emblems and wearing a knot and about wearing the GS Gold is new. Not sure if it was in the last edition.

"National Venturing president and Regional venturing president." We've had the patches almost from day one, but it was only in the previous edition they added them to the insignia guide. "Area and Regional commissioners." These are new positions, hence new patches. "Kodiak and Kodiak X awards." We've had the medals for a few years, but I think they only added them to the insignia guide in the last edition. Overall, the insignia guide has been behind in listing venturing items by se "Missing are the OA POR patches, OA Team Rep, National chief, chapter adviser, ect. The only one shown is the OA Troop Rep." The OA PORs are OA Troop & Team Reps, Section, Lodge, and Chapter advisers, and Lodge & Chapter Associate Adviser (don't recall if there is a section associate adviser). There is no National Chief patch. These have been listed for many years in the insignia guide.

"Chairman is now Chair on troop, team, crew, pack, and district committee patches." Not sure the reason for this. The terms "chair" and "chairman" are interchangable. Despite what some people thing, the term "chairman" is gender neutral! You never say "chairwoman". "Female venturers may wear the Girl Scout Gold Award medal on their uniform(not sure if this was in the old guide or not)" this is new. "Only boy scout troops and varsity teams wear the tan and green unit numbers.(I know that there is other material that contradicts this, including the color pictures in the insignia guide.)" there is a lot of confusion and arguments about this. It seems logical (and as you note, other items indicate this) that cub scout leaders and webelos wearing the tan uniform would wear the tan & green numbers. "Arrowhead honor is worn between the commissioners POR patch and the council strip on the centennial uniform." this was given in the Commissioner newsletter, so many knew of this change.

As noted, the uniform (and its insignia) have changed because people's taste in clothing have changed. We went away from the more colorful office and rank patches around 1990 or so. Many people thought they were just too bright. The change to the more subdued unit numbers and such is just a continuation of this. Change in materials is also expected. the 'fishing shirts' have become popular outdoor wear of late (not just for people fishing), so many changes came out of that. Keep in mind that the BSA does a lot of research before they make changes. We may not understand or agree with certain changes, but they'd done research to know that enought people would like/agree with them.

They are custom. Its similiar to the military having name strips on the uniform.

FWIW, I am not sure what the BSA says about troop finances. As a parliamentarian, this is what I understand is recommended for most similiar groups. * the treasurer should submit to the group a financial statement each month. This statement should note the opening & closing balance for the month, any income (and the source), any expenses (and the reason). These monthly statements should be given to the secretary and also kept by the treasurer (for the audit). * an annual audit of the books should be conducted by 3-4 members of the organization. The monthly statements produced by the treasurer, along with any bankstatements should be reviewed. This is done to ensure that everything was done properly. This should be done before a new treasurer takes over, or the treasurer starts a new term. * ANY expenditure of funds should only be done by approval of the organization. Even if the treasurer receives a bill that should be paid, it should be brought before the group and voted on. This ensure that NOTHING is paid unless its approved. The SM is not a member of the troop committee, and should have no involvement in this. The treasurer should not also be the Committee Chair, and probably should not be releated to the CC (ie, no husband/wife in these positions). Hope that helps.

FWIW, if fraternities force their pledges to do push-ups, its considered hazing. So keep that in mind.

Also, delaying a kid from getting Eagle until they are near 18 makes it impossible for them to get Palms. Do they really think this is what National wants?

You also forgot Sea Scout Skipper and Varsity Scout Coach. Those are the five key unit leader positions.

"Why couldn't national KIS by having one color number for all three programs that use numbers:CS, BS, and Venturing." Well, actually, that's what they did around 1955 or so, when all community/state strips and numbers went to white on red (except for sea scouts). Before that we had different color schemes for these: Cub Scouts- yellow on blue Boy Scouts- red on khaki Explorers/Explorer Scouts- brown on green Air Explorers/Air Scouts- royal blue on sky blue Sea Explorers/Sea Scouts- navy on white, white on navy Obviously a major stock issue, as you're not just dealing with numbers, but in those days before CSPs, community strips and state strips. Now we have the green/khaki numbers for the centennial uniform for those people, youth and adults, who wear them (Boy scouts and their leaders, cub scout leaders, webelos scouts and their leaders). the old red & white are left for cub scouts and Venturing. "Maybe national should let us do what Sea Scouts have done; no longer wear unit numbers on our unforms." which personally I think is a mistake. Sea Scouts have used unit numbers from day one. The 'rational' for dropping the unit numbers was to encourage Ships to create ship patches to identify themselves (which are worn on the right sleeve). They still make the numbers, and many ships still wear them. I think the National Sea Scout Committee needs to reverse this decision.

As noted, the 'norm' is for troops to do their planning around August/September. This is why most councils/districts do their program kickoff around then, and distribute council calenders. Then troops can conduct their in-troop YL training and do program planning. This yearly planning is usually 'high level', stuff like when/where they will camping, other major events, etc. Detailed planning as to what will actually occur at meetings will be done monthly at PLCs.

Adding to what Eagle92 said: * background on the founding of your unit (who worked to make it happen). * ups and downs of the unit. * major events that unit was involved in (for troops, their major summer trips) * leaders over the years (for packs, who was cubmaster when, for troops, scoutmaster) * awards received by unit (those ribbons and other things) * major awards received by unit members (AOL, Eagle, etc. Many troops will have an Eagle plaque, if not, maybe they should).

"I am curious why you disassemble your patrols to form a TOC patrol for outings?" I'm not Stosh, but I don't think that's what they do. Most likely the members of their TOC don't stay in the patrols (which is usually the norm), but instead form what was used to called a "Leadership Corps", which operates as a separate patrol. the normal operations is that the TOC should stay in their patrols, and at campouts the SPL & ASPL would eat with different patrols as a guest (you see this when Jamboree troops in which the 4 adult leaders and 4 youth leaders [sPL, ASPL, QM, Scribe] eat with different patrols as guest, 2 per patrol).