Eamonn

There is no free lunch. No matter how we look at it someone, somewhere will end up footing what the cost is. Would it be fair if the course director had to run down to the local copy shop and pay to have all the copies made, pay for all the refreshments out of their pocket? The money does need to come from somewhere and having everyone pay their fair share seems to me to be the best way. OGE, Back in the day, at least in my area Wood Badge Staff members didn't pay to attend the course. They did pay for the food and expenses incurred at the development weekends. This changed when the new 21st Century course came along. Now everyone pays! The CD also has to pay to attend the Course Directors Conference, which cost as much as most courses and is just a weekend. I'm not sure why anything that the Region does costs about four times what it should. I remember being "Invited" to a working breakfast that the Region was hosting the cost was $79.00! There is no way I can eat $79.00 of anything for breakfast! (Needless to say I handed over my $79.00 and didn't pass on the opportunity to have something to complain about!) Eamonn

While I really don't have an interest in Treasure Island Scout Reservation. I never have and more than lightly never will visit there. I know that the youth from our Lodge thought going there and trying to save it was a big deal. I'm not sure if we can always look at everything with a practical eye or put a price on everything? I can and do see why a Council might not want to pour money into a site that maybe from their point of view is a liability. I have visited the Tower of London. The Tower really serves little or no real practical purpose. Still I'll bet if someone announced a plan to sell it, they might end up finding a use for it. Having said that. If someone asked me to donate money to save Treasure Island Scout Reservation, I don't think that I would. It really doesn't mean all that much to me and I have other causes that I feel are more deserving of my hard earned cash. Yes I am a member of the OA. But I'd sooner donate locally and support the youth in my community than try and preserve a place I have never been. Of course this is just me. If enough people want to donate and can come up with a plan for saving and using the place I wish them all the best. Eamonn.

The $64,000 question is why? Then there is a big long list of reasons why it isn't going to work. Paper units do in the long run seem to have a way of coming back and biting us in the tail area. All units do go through "Peaks and Valleys". I have seen the biggest and best units go through some very rough times, while the unit that seemed to be going no place and has been on the brink of giving up has with the right mix of adults came back to be the rising star. Then there is the question about who is doing this negotiating? Unit Leaders can choose not to serve a unit and can offer their services to another CO. They don't own the unit. At the end of the day the unit will close if there are not enough youth and or adults to recharter or when the CO wants to call it a day. If the CO decides it wants to continue, the adults who are there can make a choice to stay and do everything that can be done to build the unit or they are free to leave and maybe be selected by another CO. Eamonn.

I really don't want to rehash the Paintball / Laser Tag debate or dive into what the Guide to anything might say about anything. I do feel that as youth leaders and as just people who are thing to to do their best to do what they think is right, we are often faced with doing what we think is right, just because we think it is the right thing to do. How far we take this? Can at times be a real dilemma. Do we not sell Christmas Trees as a fund raiser, because it might be seen as not helping the planet? Do we not sell magazine subscriptions because Playboy Magazine is on the list? Do we really think a game where the goal is to aim a weapon and shoot someone, even if no real harm is done, is what we should be doing? Even if the youth have lots of fun doing it? Do we need a rule that tells us attending a meeting where youth are present stinking of booze is just not the thing to do? I'll admit that I have at times broken rules or not followed some guide in order to do what at that time seemed to be in the best interests of the person or group I was serving. Did I know I was breaking a rule? You bet!! Still I went ahead anyway. Why? Not because I thought I was above the rule, but because I at that time thought it was the best thing to do. I'm not a great lover of lots of rules and that sort of thing. I get annoyed when people try to bury me in rules and I find myself looking for loop-holes. As my way of getting back at them. I know this is just plain wrong and is not the example I should set for the youth and adults who I'm expected to be leading. But still I try and find ways to justify it. Maybe it's the Irish in me? Eamonn.

Yet again I find myself stuck between a rock and a hard place. As a boy I played cowboys and "War". My parents bought me toy guns to play with. While I don't think this did me any real harm, I didn't buy these sort of toys for my son. But... I did buy him whatever video game was the "In" at the time. I didn't buy the games that I knew to be violent. Maybe because I wasn't raised with real guns, never hunted or was even around real guns? I don't have the "Right to bear arms" inbred in me. I have never played paintball or laser tag. So it might be unfair of me to go on about them one way or the other? On one hand I do see that maybe this isn't unlike me playing cowboys with toy guns? But on the other hand.. I work everyday with young men who have "Played" with real guns and have ended up in jail. I'm not sure if these convicted criminals all really had a good understanding that real guns kill real people. A lot of times when something isn't very clear we are left to look at our own standards and values to do what we think is best. While I'm sure that paintball and laser tag is not going to turn the young people we serve into the next criminal. I'm also sure that most kids will enjoy playing these games. Still I'm happy knowing that it really isn't my cup of tea and isn't the sort of thing I want to pass on or teach to the youth I serve. No matter what the rule is. Anyone for tiddly-winks? If it is OK? I wish all those who opt too participate a good time. It just isn't for me. Eamonn.

We (Her Who Must Be Obeyed and "The Kid" visited your part of the world a couple of years back. Back when I was a little fellow (Many , many moons back!!) We spent a few summers in Ramsgate. I was the SL of the 17th Fulham (Pioneers) for about 11 years. Sad to say the 17th is no more, Fulham District is gone and Greater London Central has been reorganized! Due to the many, many moons!! I was a Wolf Cub. When I was old enough to become a Scout, the Advanced Party Report was just starting to take hold. I did stick it out earning the then Chief Scout's Award and became a Queen's Scout. I took Wood Badge back in 1974 at Gilwell Park. (We used to land in hot water for building pioneering projects on the training grounds!!) I was also the Crew Leader of the Service Team at Walton Firs Camp Site. Back then it was owned and operated by National Camp Sites. The Camp Warden was Bill Cook super nice guy. (We had the best pioneering store of any of the National Sites!!) From what I have read and from the people I have talked with the "Changes" seem to have worked out for the good. I'd like to see some of them make the trip across the pond. I kinda think in time that they will!! Of course any sort of change does upset many of the traditionalists. I'm not so sure about how the new way that training is handled is something that I'd like to see here in the BSA? A good many people are still not overjoyed with the changes that were made to Wood Badge a few years back. Is Ted Heath still alive? I remember that he was from Broadstairs? Ea.

Hi and Welcome. What part of the UK? I was born and raised in London. But have to admit to bleeding green when I cut myself! Both my parents were from Ireland. I'm interested to find out how things are going in the UK, since you moved to having all these new?? Sections. Eamonn.

And to think all this time I thought the Council I serve had the "Black Hole" market cornered!! I have served as a District and Council Training Chair. Lost Records are not uncommon. Maybe the District or Council Training Chair, along with the Training Committee needs to come up with a "What are we going to do when this happens? Policy. Our "Black Hole" was so big!! That we came up with the idea that a Scout is to be Trusted. This being true the word of a Scouter should be good as gold. The last thing you want to do is scare off an adult who if he is a Tiger Cub parent? Still has ten good years ahead of him. Maybe inviting him to help train the other leaders might be a nice way of getting the job done and ensuring that he gets up to par? If your Council provides Training's that are worth-while and fun, chances are that he will want to attend. However if you come off as a "Finger Wagger" - Things might not turn out very well. Think about what the goal is. (Having him want to take training and get trained.) If he has said that he has taken the Training, look for ways of helping him gt involved in more training. You might want to suggest that re-taking the training would provide a new record that would really help him out when it comes time to receive training awards. "If the front door is locked try looking for a back-door" Good Luck. Eamonn.

I'm a big fan of the Pioneering books that John Sweet wrote. (For the UK Scouts) I think they can still be bought from the Canadian Scout stores and every now and then pop up on ebay. While it's great that the Scouts are showing an interest in pioneering, if they are new to pioneering maybe the Monkey Bridge is not the best project to start with? You might want to try and talk them into starting with a few flag poles, towers and gateways before tackling a bridge. Good Luck. Ea.

Not sure what this has to do with anything? But I'm going to post it just the same! In 1975 I attended the World Jamboree. One free afternoon I was out and about not doing anything special. I stopped by where the South African Scouts were camping. I was a little surprised to see both black and white Scouts camping together. They did a wonderful Wellie Dance. "Wellies" are rubber boots that come up to just under the knee. They are named for the Duke of Wellington. The correct name is Wellington Boots. These South African Scouts had string with beer bottle caps tied around their boots and as they danced they slapped their wellies, one Scout was giving some sort of chant that kept everyone in time. It was really was something to see. My next stop was at a small campfire circle. Two BSA Troops were entertaining people like me, who had little else to do. One Troop was from the South and the other was from the North. First the Troop from the South sang Dixie, then the Troop from the North sang the Battle Song Of The Republic, they then both joined together to sing the American National Anthem. When I got back home to the UK I made a point of buying the recording by Elvis. A young man I think the world of went to the World Jamboree in Thailand. The International Patrol he was in did a service project at a school. After they were done working the local school teacher asked the Scouts to perform their national dance. This poor kid had no idea what the American National Dance was /is.? He is a very quick thinker and when it came to his turn he did "I'm a little teapot" He got the local kids to join in. He did say that he had thought of doing something with "I'm a lumberjack.." but thought that was too English. I'm sure if we look at all 3 of these that someone will find fault and come up with something that isn't PC acceptable. Ea.

Much as I hate to say it. It seems to me that we have some Scouter's who will want to do what they can and offer to help and we also have some who will want to point "The Finger" and look for reasons not to help. I'm not sure if anything can ever be done to help change the minds and hearts of the Finger Pointers? Maybe having a member of the District Membership Committee say a few words at a R/T meeting might help make people aware that there is a problem. The District Commissioner might want to explain the situation to the Commissioners and have them put a word in with any units that are being served? The District Chairman normally knows a lot of community groups who with a little arm twisting will offer to help. Back when I was serving as a CM we had a few little fellows who came from families that needed a hand. HWMBO was the Pack Treasurer. She took on getting these little guys into uniform to heart. By just asking the people she worked with in the ER,five people volunteered to buy new uniforms and six people donated uniforms that their sons had out-grown. When I was District Chairman I made it known that we as a District would ensure that any Scout who wanted to attend summer camp from the District would. I made sure that this got in the local papers a few times!! I made sure that this information got out to all the businesses that supported the community FOS campaign. As a thank you from me I invited all the people who donated to come up to camp for dinner (I was the last of the big spenders. - It only cost me $3.00 a head for the meal!!) While they were there I gave them a tour of the camp and made a point of stopping at units from less well off areas. I didn't have to say "Hey these are the poor kids" Being as these people were from the community they knew by where these units came from what the story was. The big thing to always remember is that the main reason why people don't do something is because no one ever asked. If we can find ways of asking we are over half way there! Eamonn.

packsaddle I'm sure that you might have noticed that I have given all this talk about White Guys and White Women a very wide berth. I was tempted to mention "The Iron Maiden". Dear old Maggie. A Lady with whom I respect as a leader but as a member of the Labour Party never was able to see eye to eye with. I read recently that a town in Ireland had elected the first black mayor. I read this soon after hearing my sister complain that it's not possible to order a cup of tea in English in Shannon Airport because of all the immigrant workers employed there. She went on and on about this darn cup of tea and the immigrants!! I reminded her of how our Dad used to tell the stories about the "No Irish Need Apply" that he faced when he arrived in the UK. This past week I spent a few days in Harrisburg, my state capital. I was running short on my favorite cookies, so I drove to Bird In Hand and Intercourse PA. There is a wonderful Tea Shop there which sells these cookies. I really enjoy visiting the farms and seeing the Amish way of life. Sad thing is that so many of the Amish Stores are selling junk a lot of it imported from a long way away from Pennsylvania. As I walked around one store I noticed a big display marked 75% Off. On closer inspection I seen that it was all "Red Neck" stuff. Silly signs and t-shirts with the material that Jeff Foxworthy (Or something like that?) was famous for a little time back. When I seen all this stuff on sale, I thought to myself why is this stuff on sale? On the ride home I pondered this. I came to the conclusion that all the Red Necks had gone away. Of course that was until I read some of the stuff that has been posted in some of the threads over the past week or so. My pondering topic for today is: Was it really a civil war? Or was it really an Act of Northern Aggression? I did ponder this R.E.Lee not being PC question, but was unsure if someone who is dead can be PC or not? I could of course be totally lacking in political correctness and start a thread about Colonoscopies, but I can't spell it. Ea.

Not sure if you can hijack a thread that is over five years old? I was checking my e-mail when "packsaddle, has just replied to a topic that you are subscribed titled 'R. E. Lee is not PC', on the SCOUTER Forums." popped up. I knew something was going on. I gave up being notified about topics a long time back. In fact soon after the system wen wild and one day I received 212 notifications that Dsteele had replied. It was nice to look back at the names of the people who were around at that time. Of course it's sad that some have moved on and maybe not so sad that others did. With that I'll leave you Americans to fight over how you all want your history to read. I really don't know what you all would do if you had as much history as us Brits? Eamonn

My big problem with these so called Guidelines is that they tend to be " One Size Fits All" There is always going to be someone who falls outside of the Guidelines. Participation in fund raising events? Sounds like a given until a kid comes along that has a good reason for not being able to participate. My feelings are that: There should be the funds available. If there are no funds? You are just wasting everyones time. Another big part of this is where is the money going to come from? There should be a real need. How you determine this can be the hard part. I think you need a small group of people who can look at each case on its own merits and reach a discreet determination. I personally think that giving anyone a free ride just doesn't work. The person does need to have some sort of investment in whatever it is in order to get something out of it.

My Mum, was a stay at home Mum. Looking back at my childhood, I suppose I should and maybe am thankful. Yes there was always home cooked meals. But she was a terrible cook. I think I was 22 before I knew that there was a difference between liver and steak! She baked bread and homemade pies. Preparations for Christmas started sometime in October. Dad was the "Bread Winner". I loved him very dearly. But he was a very busy fellow. He seemed to be so busy trying to make money that he just wasn't there. This was one big reason why I got involved in Scouting. He didn't know how to boil an egg. He never once in his entire life changed a Nappie (Diaper) Never fed the baby. Helped clean the house or helped out around the house. While I'm by no means the most perfect of Dads. I like to think that I do my fair share around the house. - When needed. We do have a Lady that comes in to clean a few times a week. Her Who Must Be Obeyed has always worked outside of the home. At times out of necessity. There have been times when all I had was the lint in my pocket and that pot that everyone talks about was missing. But mostly because she enjoys working and is good at what she does. Our son has learned as much from her as he has from me. He has seen her juggle her schedule to ensure that she has been there for him when she was needed. I like to think that the two of us as a team have done a good job. I have two sisters. One married a really nice Irish fellow. He works as a plumber. She gave up working as a nurse when they had their first child, they had one more but she was happy to remain at home. Both kids are now grown. She still remains home. The kids a girl and a boy are two very nice people. The girl works as a teacher and the boy is still a little unsure what he wants to do. He dropped out of college. He had wanted to be an accountant but had a change of heart. This sister is very much like my mother. The other sister is very much like my Dad. We were all very surprised when she had a child. She went on to have two. A girl and a boy. The guy she was living with and later married was a teacher. He loves kids and wanted them more than anything. She enjoys working and earns more money than most of us can imagine. She choose to put her career first. The kids have always had a Nanny. When the opportunity came for her (My sister) to become a partner in a big law firm she jumped at it. She was happy to move everyone over to Hong Kong. The kids attend the very best of private schools, have impeccable manners and at least from what I can see seem to really enjoy themselves. Their Dad is home a lot more than their mother. She provides the cash that is needed for them to live the life style that they have become accustomed too. Both sisters made choices. All four kids seem very happy and well adjusted. To be very honest while I love both my sisters ans my nieces and nephews. I'm very much OK with everyone doing what they think is for the best. At the end of the day the kid that is most important to me is the one that still sleeps in my house most nights. Over time he will decide what is and what isn't a priority. He will have at hand the example that we (His parents) have given him. What he does with it? Will be up to him. Eamonn.

I owned and operated a couple of restaurants which served alcohol. The bar area was separate from the dining area. We have several groups in th area that take a dim view on drinking alcoholic drinks. Over the years I held many different Scouting meetings in the restaurants. Any and all meeting where youth or people would be in uniform were alcohol free. Meetings where there were only adults not in uniform was left up to the individual. We did have one District Committee member who felt that holding any sort of meeting where there was alcohol was just wrong. The church she belonged too took a very dim view of drinking alcohol. Having said all that we did have some people who were happy to not drink while the meetings where uniforms and youth were involved, but would wait until the meeting was over and the uniforms were gone and then have a few adult beverages. I never heard of a Scout holding an Eagle Scout COH in his home. While the ceremony is entirely up to the Scout. I think I would try and explain to the parents that the ceremony and any sort of reception are two completely different things. The ceremony should be a celebration of the Scouts achievements in Scouting. Which is a youth organization and as such adult beverages really have no place. The reception is not part of the ceremony and is not (Or does not have to be.) A Scouting event. I would try and talk the Scout and his parents into having the ceremony in a different location than the ceremony. This would be the easy way out. If this can't be done. I would make it very clear that the ceremony and any reception have (No If's and's or buts) to be two separate functions. At the end of the ceremony someone should make an announcement that there will be an adult reception and remind everyone that this is not a Scouting function and the rules about adults drinking adult beverages in Scout uniform. When it comes to explaining the BSA rules on alcohol to the parents, I would make no effort to be diplomatic, the rules are the rules are the rules! Hand them a copy of the rule. Explain with more and more young people having problems with alcohol and underage drinking that the Troop will not stand for any alcohol being served before or during the COH. They also need to tell everyone after the COH that the reception is an adult reception and is not suitable for children. Eamonn.

As I started to read this thread, I kinda thought what I would do if I were standing around the embers of a campfire with a group of Scouter's. I'm not a big American Football fan. It wasn't until I'd read a couple of postings that I kinda sorta worked out who this Tom Brady fellow was /is !! If I were standing around the campfire? I think I'd have to not say very much, because I don't know enough to really have much of an opinion. I do have an opinion about this "Out of wedlock". I'm happy to be married. The idea of myself and Her Who Must Be Obeyed living together or shacking up, never crossed my mind. The idea of us not remaining together until death us do part, remains very strong. With both of us. But that's just me (And Her). More and more it seems to me that people are living together. In fact my little sister lived with the Father of her two children for a number of years until they decided to get married. Back home in the UK this seemed acceptable and hardly anyone blinked an eye. Kids of all ages watch TV and causal sex is seen almost night. This of course doesn't by any means make it right, but our kids do see this and us pretending that they don't is just daffy. I have never really understood Common-Law Marriage? I think in part because of my Roman Catholic upbringing. Having said that both of my sister's kids were baptized in a RC church and the church seemed to take very little notice that the kids parents were not married. So while shacking up or living together out of wedlock, would never be my personal choice. I don't see it as being the biggest of sins. One big problem with Hero's is that most of them do have faults. Even BP is rumored to have a few!! I'm never happy trying to judge others. Some how it just doesn't seem to be very kind. I think many of us have things that we might not be proud of. Still we are doing what we can to lead a good life and where we can help others. Eamonn.

I'm unsure what sort of yard stick you use to measure worth? I have belonged to our Lodge for a very long time. Due to the times I worked I was never really very active. The very active adults at one time seemed to me to be the guys who did all the work at camp. The work did need to be done, they did a wonderful job, but somehow some way they came off seeming like a private club within the Lodge. These men were the craftsman who built the new buildings, fixed the plumbing and made the lights work. Not being good at this kind of stuff, I never really felt like a member of this club. It wasn't until OJ became really active that I grasped the full meaning of what the OA was about and doing. Along with the guys doing the construction there was also a group of adults who really understood what the OA was about and who really understood how to work with the youth members. Like just about anything in life, OA members only get out of the OA what they put in. OJ got deeply involved. I think the OA played a big part of him not leaving Scouting, along the way he did hone his leadership skills, he did learn what service to others was about. I was happy that he met and choose to hang out with a really great bunch of Lads, who were by no means little angels, but were not into any of the bad stuff that lands kids their age in hot water. The Lodge unlike the Troop he was in, was truly youth led. Of course at times some things might not have gone as well as if an adult had done what was needed, but that's par for the course. We might be lucky that the Council is not very big and Scouts do tend to get to see other Scouts from around the Council and do get to know each other, which does help the Lodge work a little better. We have been blessed that the guys who have served as Lodge Advisors do seem to understand the OA and the youth that they serve. The youth members might not always live up to the expectations of some of the older guys who have been around for a very long time and are not happy unless they have something to moan about. OJ is now serving on the District Camping Committee. I think belonging to the OA led to him wanting to be a Summer Camp Staff member and this has led to him wanting to serve on that committee. I handed over a lot of my hard earned cash for him to get involved, he attended a couple of NOAC's, went on the trail crew at Philmont, attended NLS in NJ,spent a small fortune on uniforms. Was it worth it? I think so. Eamonn.

While I'm not ever going to lose any sleep on it! I have to admit that it seems to me that many lodges are pandering to the patch collectors. Badge swapping and Patch Trading was at one time a nice way for Scouts to get to know each other. That seems to be gone and replaced by a very un-scoutlike "What's it worth?" Way of thinking. We have Lodge members who will try and buy as many flaps as they can and try and corner the market just so they can drive up the price of a flap. The Lodge knows that if they want to make a few extra bucks all they need do is roll out a new flap. I was really saddened to watch some of the Scouts at the last Jamboree look at patch trading as a business transaction, one member of the Jamboree Troop paid $35.00 for a patch! I thought he was nuts! Maybe with this new toning down of the uniform, lodges will be restricted from all this silliness? Eamonn

No I have not attended. OJ, (My son) went a couple of years back. The course was at Camp Alpine in NJ. He enjoyed the course a lot. He seemed to get a lot from it. He was 16 at the time. Eamonn.

"Scouting needs to do a lot more to make the program accessible to more kids," A week or so back there was a thread about Who is the Council? (Or something like that!) The truth is that we (Yes you and little old me!) Are the Council and the District. We are also "Scouting" It's us that need to do more. We might not be able to serve in the areas where the most good can be done, we might live a long way from the inner city, but most of us can afford a few extra bucks that could be used to help. Some of us sit on committees that could if they wanted do more.We need to start the ball rolling. We can explain to others why in many ways it's not a level playing field for the kids from some areas. If we do get involved, we need to ensure that Councils are spending money earmarked for Scoutreach is spent wisely and is about serving the needs of the youth not the needs of the Council, which sadly at times are not one and the same. Eamonn.

Hi and Welcome. Someplace on the BSA web site is a copy of: THE ANNUAL CHARTER AGREEMENT. I couldn't find it!! Here is a copy I found by doing a google search: http://www.mississippivalleybsa.org/Templates/forms/annual_charter_agreement.pdf. I'm not sure how up to date it is or if it is out dated? It does outline The chartered organization agrees to and what The council agrees to. As you read it I think you will see that it open to interpretation and that the Chartering organization is not giving away a lot. Having been around for a while, serving at the District and Council level and from reading what has been posted here in the forum. It seems to me (Just my opinion) that CO's can be classified as: * Outstanding. * Really Good. * Good *Not so Good *Bad * What Chartering Organization? In the area I serve most fall under the "Not So Good" Heading. But having said that most people feel it's better the devil you know... Starting a new unit can be a real pain. The CO can if it wants claim all the equipment as belonging to them. It can also be the cause of a lot of hurt feelings. What you are suggesting by opening better lines of communication and trying to win them over is by far the best way to go. You might want to have someone (Your COR or CC??) Meet with your DE and see if he or she can help. DE's are supposed to meet with each and every Executive Officer at least once a year. Sometimes they don't do this, which is a shame. A friendly kick in the pants does help!! Try and involve the Church in what you are doing. A few lines every now and then in the Church newsletter, see if there are some Scouts who might want to work on religious awards with the church helping. Recruit some church members, both youth and adult. None of this is going to bring about change overnight, but then again things didn't get as bad as they are overnight. Try to get them to think of the Troop as their Troop. Good Luck!! Eamonn.

Bob White, Of course the person looking for an excuse is going to find one. I see asking people not to use the stuff from some parts of the course not as a way of adding any mystery, but more along the lines of "Hey that was good! I never seen it before." I have sat through a lot of Eagle Scout COH's and will admit that at times I have thought to myself, "Oh no! Not that again!!" I kinda think the point of asking people not to recycle parts of the course is a way to avoid this and keep the course fresh. I kinda think we will have to agree to disagree on this one! Ea.

I think comparing the OA and Wood Badge is not a good thing. While I'm all for Wood Badge being as open as possible, I have asked participants not to use parts of the course when they get home. Mainly parts of the camp-fire and the presentations near the end. I have heard that Weight Watchers are/were using the Leaving A Legacy presentation not long after it came out. I don't know maybe they were using first? I'm not a great fan of the Win All You Can. The Game of Life. I just don't like it!! I was told it was first used by the OA. When I hear all the misinformation about Tickets, I at times wonder how after all this time and how after so many people have been through the course; this can be? Eamonn.

Hey Bob, your making me feel old! I took the training's that were available and needed at that time in the UK,ending with Wood Badge back in 1974. I moved to the USA in 1984 and have since then taken most adult leader training's. I have also been involved in presenting a good many. As yet I have not taken Sea Badge. I have heard reports that vary a lot about Sea Badge. Some people who have attended say it's just a wonderful course, while others are not so thrilled about it. Of course the only way I'll really find out is to go and find out for myself. Eamonn.