Eamonn

I think with so many different groups -Units,Districts, Councils all having rules, guidelines, bylaws, it is understandable that we do have a lot of confusion. It is kinda sad that a lot of the stuff that really isn't right, isn't true or just isn't there was at one time started by someone who really had the best of intentions. I at times have a rough time when someone I really like tries to defend something that they know is just plain wrong, just because they don't agree with whatever it was that is right. We as an organization cover a lot of "Stuff". As we have seen in the forum we can fill page after page with "Uniform Stuff". Eagle Scout rank and Advancement is good for a few hundred pages. Training and Training's can go a long way to dispel some of the stuff that is not right, but as has been posted, at times Trainers take it upon themselves to add what they think is right or what they think should be there. Some Trainers feel that they have a duty to go above and beyond the syllabus. Worse still is that many volunteers rely on DE's to know what is what. Many of these DE's have no idea; having never taken the training's and only ever been exposed to the program for a very short time. I do have to agree that at times trying to find things on the BSA web site is a real challenge. I was trying to find out something the other day and in the end just gave up. Eamonn.

I really don't think anyone goes straight to the idea of removing anyone. At work I see two people who just can't see eye to eye. Admittedly one tends to be right more often than the other. I'm not sure what caused the rift. They both know how to get under each other's skin and push each others buttons. Each will go out of their way to showcase the other in a bad light. Much as I hate to admit it, I do see the day in the not so distant future when one of them or maybe both of them will cross the line and could end up in hot water. Myself and others have tried counseling them. Starting with remarks like "Get over it" and going as far as pointing out the Code of Ethics that State Employees are supposed to adhere too and verbal warnings (The first step in disciplinary action). While they know what they are both doing is not right and is at times both silly and can be harmful to themselves and the department. They seem unable to stop. Of course these two really have had little choice, they didn't choose to work with each other and while transferring to another location is a possibility, it would be a real pain. Most Scout Groups - Units or committees that I have been involved with tend to be made up of people who like each other and people who have knowledge of each other. I know that I'm not going to join a unit or a committee where the people in that unit or on that committee are people that I'm unable to get along with or work with. I have sat on committees where there have been some members that maybe aren't my cup of tea. When that happens I'm happy to avoid them as much or as far as is possible. I kinda think if things did become unbearable? I would be the one that would walk away. Very often when someone is not doing what is expected from them it turns out that they are really looking for a way out. When I first became a District Commissioner, I inherited the staff. The Lady who was Assistant District Commissioner Cub Scouts, was a nice Lady. She had been a Den Mother with my Mother-in-law back in the day. Sadly she just wasn't up to the job. But she still wanted to be around Scouts and Scouting. Her big fear was that if she ever gave up being ADC she would be left with nothing to do and soon forgotten. I found this out by just sitting down and talking with her. I talked with the other members of the Key 3 and we came up with the title of Boy's Life Promoter. She came to Round Tables and a couple of times a year gave a little talk on how great Boy's Life Magazine was, she had a stall at Pow Wows and was very happy with her new role. Of course there are some people who really are in the wrong job and may be unwilling to do the right thing. But after ten years serving as a key 3 member, I found that in most cases (Not all.) Very often it is the people who are trying to remove someone that are the people who are in fact in need of removal. Eamonn.

It has been 8 years since I attended a conference at Philmont. I enjoyed the trip. We drove and after the training spent a week traveling. Her Who Must Be Obeyed and OJ went with me. OJ had a great time. Her Who Must Be Obeyed, is not a mixer, doesn't like living in a tent and while she was willing to tolerate the things she didn't like for my sake, she is in no real rush to ever return. I on the other hand am a mixer. Stick me just about any place with a group of Scouter's and I'll bet I will have the best of times. Attending the Conference wasn't expensive. We all enjoyed the trip. The food wasn't that great, but we didn't go hungry. The two presenters for the conference turned out to be from French Creek Council, which isn't that far from where I live. At that time I was aware of some things that were going on in that Council and have to admit to at times thinking that maybe if these guys (One was the SE for that Council)had been doing what they were presenting maybe things there might be better? My main reason for going was that I felt that the training's for Commissioners was not that great (Something I still hold to be true.) I wanted something more. I didn't get it. I think in part because it just wasn't there. What I got was a rehash of the same old same old. However like most Scouting training's I learned a lot from the other participants. Philmont really is beautiful. As a location for Scouts going out and learning to appreciate the great outdoors there can't be a better place on the planet. But maybe it is not the best location for everything that they are trying to do. Sure for courses that are about outdoor activities this is the ideal location. Still a location better served by public transportation might be better for a lot of what is offered? Me staying in a tent in New Mexico was nice but I don't think it added anything to me learning about the Delivery of Commissioner Service. I seen that a Sea Badge course was also offered there? Sure Sea Badge is not a practical course,still I don't see myself traveling to New Mexico for Sea Badge. We have in our Council a few people who seem to take just about any training that is ever offered. It doesn't seem to matter what it is they are there.Maybe I'm being unkind when I call these people training junkies? Talking with some of the people who were at Philmont when I was there, it seemed that there were some people who were there every year! I was left feeling that there was some kind of "Snob Value" with this group. With the cost of traveling becoming more and more expensive I think it's time that we looked at what is really needed for what course? (Round Tables happen at night indoors. - What is the advantage of a course at Philmont?) We have in each Region wonderful facilities which could be used and would cover the same material as Philmont does. Pouring tons of money into a place that is so hard to get to? Just seems a little silly to me. Eamonn.

Much as I hate to admit it, much as I enjoyed the opening ceremonies for the Olympics in China particularly the precision of having so many people moving in time and doing what they were supposed to be doing. After a while I went into "Cultural-Overload". - The fact that the Steelers were on another channel, may have played a part in some of this. I was also tired and fell asleep. I missed most of the parade of the nations flags. I'm always a little worried that the stories that are just a little too cute, might not be 100% true. Still it was nice to see Chinese team basketball idol Yao Ming, accompanied by 9-year-old schoolboy Lin Hao, a survivor of May's devastating earthquake in Sichuan province. Lin Hoa is reported to have saved two of his classmates by returning into the elementary school and digging them out of the collapsed school. When asked why he did it? He answered that he was the Hall Monitor and it was his job. I think if this is true that it's a great answer. Then again there is the question. Yesterday I happened to overhear an inmate ask a staff member a question. The inmate wasn't overjoyed with the answer he was given. So he came and asked me the very same question. As it happened the answer he had been given was one that I thought was right and supported. I'm now left wondering what I would have done if it hadn't been? As it was I gave the inmate a hard time for not following the staff members instructions. I did this to show my faith and my support in the Staff member. A few weeks back I took the quiz that was posted here in the forum. I don't keep a pile of Scouting books on my desk, I would but Her Who Must Be Obeyed doesn't like the clutter! I didn't get all the answers correct. When the answers were posted, I took the word of the person who posted them. This doesn't mean that I agree with the answer, it just means that I believe them to be the right answer and I have faith in the guy who posted the answers. Maybe like 9-year-old Lin Hao, I should just move on and do my job? Eamonn.

OK Sea Scouters are only supposed to wear six knots. If this became the rule for everyone, what six would you wear. If you feel that wearing knots is not your bag, that's fine and dandy, but don't bother posting!! You can if you want spin off. Eamonn.

" It left many of us wondering if we go back next year." Of course if you think that the Scouts are not going to have a good time next year? This might be the way to go. Camps and the up keep of a camp isn't cheap. Why does the Council have to resort to renting the camp out to non-scouting groups? Doe the income from these groups help the camp? Does it help keep the fees a little lower? We might not like it, but money is a very important part of the day to day running of a camp and a Council. Could it be that the Council was unable to look a gift horse in the mouth? Maybe a donation that would equal the income that this group paid might be the way to go? Seems to me that there a lot of options that might be looked at. Eamonn.

"the rest fall under some state rules for volunteers with stipends" I have never heard of such a thing. Of course me not knowing is nothing new!! When OJ worked as a Camp Staffer, he received a pay check. All the normal everyday deductions were taken out. -Taxes and all that good stuff!! While I might be wrong? As I see it he was an employee. Maybe PA isn't one of them states? I have read that some young workers do not have to be paid the full minimum wage for the first 90 days of their employment. While I have never taken the time to really study what they can be paid. Somehow, someway $4.25 an hour is stuck in my head. Eamonn.

I think many if not all of us want to see Scouts and Scouting be around to serve the youth that will follow. The Lad who had his Eagle Scout COH this past weekend made mention of the fact that if and when he has kids that he hopes that they will be Scouts. I had a great time in Scouts as a kid and have had a great time as an adult. The adults who served me, were great people. I have looked up to them and admired them for a very long time. Still I never ever got the idea that I owed them anything. I never got the idea that by me trying to live a good life that I was in any way repaying anything. I have stuck around as long as I have, mainly because I have had fun. Man I wish I could put my hand on my heart and state it was due to some noble and fine cause. But It's just not true. I enjoy the young people I serve and have served. I enjoy spending time with the adults in Scouting, we have a great time. Scouts and Scouting don't owe me anything and I don't owe it anything. Maybe I'm just greedy? I know that I have taken a lot and I continue to take. Sure I have been honored that young people are willing to spend their free time with me. I have enjoyed watching them grow and become the people that they are. I enjoy when we get together and re-tell the "War Stories". Maybe I have got it wrong? I have tended to go with "Hey we can do this, it's going to be fun" More so than "Hey we should do this it will make the world a better place." Some Scouter's talk about pay checks, in fact one the adults at the COH said it the other day. He seemed to think that a young Lad becoming an Eagle Scout was his pay check! If there is such a thing? I see it as being seeing young people take on new challenges and grow into becoming adults. I was talking to a young inmate the other day he said that he had been a Scout in Reading PA. I didn't in any way see Scouting as failing just because he was a convicted criminal. He said that he really enjoyed being a Scout and loved camping. He was a happy fellow, seemed to be a hard worker and was making the best of what his lot was. Did he fail Scouting? What would his "Give Back" be?. He is still young, I have no idea what will become of him once he gets out. Maybe he will be yet another repeat offender or maybe he will be the best Dad in the world. Eamonn.

I really don't know very much about the Alpha Phi Omega Fraternity, I have read a few articles. But that's about it. Because of where we are located, we are very close to a lot of colleges. While of course I have seen some of the Sea Scouts take off to attend schools in far away places. The norm does seem that most of "Our" youth go to schools that allow them to come home at weekends. More and more of our local kids seem to be opting to attend local community colleges and then transferring to other schools. This idea is about having something "Back Home" which will hopefully allow them to keep their toe in the door and remain active in the local goings on rather than just being involved with what the school has to offer. OJ, My little darling is now 20!! (Boy does that make me feel old!!) He is attending a local community college and will transfer to Saint Vincents, sometime soon. Like a good many young people his age he is finding that the step from being a kid to becoming an adult is not as easy as he had thought. He has gone through some really tough life lessons. He always seems to be broke, in part because he never really seemed to understand the real value of a dollar! (My fault??) He has had his heart broken, when he got dumped. (Not my fault!!) He works almost full time at a local Cracker Barrel Restaurant. He has got involved with the local volunteer fire-service. While the firemen do a lot of good and are very much needed, it does seem that the fire-station is a place to hang out with his pals almost like a bar with no booze!! He can and does make time for the things he wants to do. He still makes time to attend the OA weekends. But as the youth in the OA change he is starting to feel more and more not a part of the "In Crowd". Where he was once one of the movers and grovers, he is fast becoming more and more of a visitor. Again I think he likes going up to camp to catch up with what the other guys who were active when he was active are doing and up to. I might be way off base but I do tend to think we all make time to do the things that we want to do. Maybe not as much as we once did, but at a level that we can and are happy with. Long term, it does seem that more and more people (At least in the area where I live.) Are not moving away from the area once they graduate from college, they are living at home longer and getting jobs in the area. If we can find a way of not losing these young people, maybe just maybe? They will stick around and offer to help in the future. I'm going to host a Bar-B-Que, inviting about 40 or 50 young people that I know were heavily involved in the program and see what they think. If nothing else it will be great to see them and find out what they are up to. Eamonn.

"The BSA Employee position would mean that the staff were paid comparable wages with benefits" ?? Comparable to what or who? Benefits? Not every employer offers or has to offer benefits. " Most camp staff under 18 receive a token wage and room and board" Maybe I'm wrong? But I thought the BSA the same as other employers had to comply with State and Federal minimum wage laws. " If they are under 18 and not already a member of a Venturing or Scout unit, what are they doing with the summer camp program anyway if not medical or food services? I can and do see that at time there can be a need for someone with a skill to be offered a job at a Scout Camp. Many girls have Lifeguard qualifications, we have hired females to work in the COPE area, because no BSA members applied for the job. A lot of youth have areas of interest that can be employed at camp and instructed at camp, this doesn't mean that the person doing the teaching or instructing has to be a BSA member. A couple of years back I took the LNT Instructor Course. There were about 40 participants of the 40 only 2 of us were involved in Scouting. I don't know the ages of the younger participants? But some didn't look very old. Talking and listening to them , it seemed that they had a lot more experience than the average Boy Scout and I would think they would be a great addition to any camp staff. (In the right area.) Eamonn.

sst3rd I have a good many close friends who think along the same lines that you do, when it comes to the BSA going fully coed. I could argue with them until I was blue in the face and they are not going to change. As things stand right now, they are fine and dandy. I do think if you ever get the opportunity to work with female Sea Scouts or Venturers that you will have a change of heart. Heck if an old codger like me who never had a daughter can do it? Anyone can! scoutldr The BSA manages not to hire DE's who are not in agreement with the standards so why would it be any different for camp staff? Eamonn.

If asked I think I would have to say that I think of myself as being open minded, not a sexist and definitely not chauvinistic. I'm very much for coed Scouting and look forward to the day when all of our programs are open to both girls and boys. Over 30 years back we had females who were hired as cooks at summer camp. I remember with fondness the two slightly over middle aged Ladies who provided me with great sweet rolls and made homemade pizza on Wednesday nights. I don't ever remember seeing them in street clothes. They wore their white uniforms and hairnets at all times. I wondered if they slept in them. When not feeding summer campers they were employed by local schools to cook for the students. We also had a Camp Nurse, the wife of the Camp Director. She provided me with late night cups of tea. Without wishing to sound rude or in any way put down these fine Ladies, I think most of the campers young and old looked upon these Ladies more like they would their mothers than anything else. We did for a number of years have a female Aquatic Director, she ruled the pool area with an iron fist. No one dared step out of line on her watch. I don't recall when we hired the first "Young Lady". I do remember that about 3 or 4 years back we had a really good looking girl as the Handicraft Director. OJ as on staff that year and every-time I went looking for him he seemed to be hanging out in the Handicraft Area. Last year we seemed to have a lot more young girls on staff. Back in January of this year I was talking with the fellow who serves as the Camp Commissioner, he said that a girl had been hired as the Program Commissioner, he went on o say that he felt that there were too many young girls on staff. I have heard that some of the male staff members (Youth) felt that the girls just didn't know enough about Scouting to hold some of the positions? I didn't talk with them, so I don't know why? They would say such a thing. It does seem clear to me from seeing how OJ acted that at times young girls at camp can be a distraction. It does seem that some male staffers are not 100% behind having females hold certain positions at camp. I do have to admit that while I have nothing against female Leaders, some where deep inside of me there is something that kinda likes the idea that Summer Camp is a little like "Boys Night Out". This would be different if the program were to be fully coed, but as long as we have 30 or 40 Male staffers and a dozen or so Female Camp staffers serving a couple of hundred male campers? I think there might be problems. Could it be that I'm deep down,really some sort of sexist? Eamonn Eamonn.

Twocubdad Thanks for the information. It has been a while since I was involved with National Camp Standards. While this may be as it is? I'm left asking why? Why not just have them as what they are are -employees of the Council? What real purpose is served by having them, pretend to be Venturers? What is achieved by adding a unit that never provides a program? How hard would it be for National to come up with a Camp Staff position? Allowing Councils to act as CO's, does in my view open a can of worms and is not a good idea. Ea.

I attended an Eagle Scout COH earlier today (Saturday). Great kid from a super nice family. He completed his Eagle BOR back in the spring.(I sat on the BOR.) The summer has been kinda busy. He graduated from High School. Worked at summer camp, so this was the first real opportunity for the COH. The ceremony was held in the sanctuary of the church that he attends with a reception downstairs in the church hall. When he gave his little "Thank You" speech, I was a little surprised when he thanked his girl friend for all her help and support. This was a new one for me! After the meal and as most of the people had or were leaving I went to the spot where someone (Mom?) had laid out all of his Scouting stuff and history. I love looking at this stuff, seeing how a little Lad grows and changes. There was a great photo of him wearing the bright orange Tiger Cub Shirt, with the paws on, I was in the photo presenting him with something. The shirt looks about five sizes too big! As I was looking at the photos a small group of kids, most who I know seemed to gather and we made fun of his haircuts over the years and commented about this and that. Most of this group are soon going to be going off to college. One girl said how there is a Pittsburgh Steeler living in "Her" room at Saint Vincent! Another said he was going to Pitt. At times I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I've only lived where I live for the past 24 years. In that time I have never really given much thought to the fact that we have a lot of colleges close by. ( I can count five colleges. While the kids for the most part do live away from home they are less than an hours drive away!) I have accepted that older kids go off to college and when they do they stop being active in Scouting programs. Some do stay on the charters but many if not most are there just in name. This got me thinking. What if... What if we could come up with a program of say ten or twelve events that they could participate in? As yet this is still in the idea phase. - That is, I haven't worked out any of the details. So far I'm thinking. Pick one weekend -The same weekend of each month. - Maybe the second weekend of each month and just do something. While I suppose this would be called a Venturing Unit? I don't see at least at the start any real youth leadership or planning, with some luck this might fall into place later. The idea is just to talk to a handful of these kids and come up with a list of things that they want to do and can afford to do, have them sign up as Venturers and just offer a year of planned activities. Hopefully they will in time invite other youth who are at college with them to tag along. One event would be a summer super activity lasting a week. Or maybe a Spring Break or Christmas Break activity? The drawbacks? As I see it. They are very busy and if they are like OJ never seem to know what they are doing from one day to the next. So to make events worth while a lot of youth would need to be involved. Having a small number and only having 25% show up would kill the idea before it ever got off the ground! I'm thinking something like 30 -50 youth on the books, so that when an activity does happen about a dozen are there. Everything would have to be self-supporting. There would be no fund raising or that sort of thing. They would need all of the gear that would be needed to do whatever activity they wanted to do or was planned. Parents would be kept on the back burner! (Not in the dark) Not all events would need to be "Big". I think they just at times might enjoy just getting together to shoot the breeze and eat pizza (this could be used to plan the next or some other activity.) As I say this is still just an idea. I welcome any ideas or thoughts - Pros or cons. Eamonn.

Hey Bob, Thanks for the quiz. I thought I was good! - But still somehow managed to get a few wrong. Of course I'm blaming the fact that for the past couple of years I have been trying to come to grips with the Sea Scout Manual. I know it's a very lame excuse!! I know that there a good many people in the Council I serve who at times do look to me for help and advise. I really hate to give them the wrong information. Of course the best thing is always to tell people where the information is and have them look for and find it themselves. Sad thing about doing this is that very often some people see this as not being helpful or think that it's in someway "Stand-offish". I know in the past you have presented at the PTC. Did you use this quiz there? If so was the reaction similar to the reaction that it has received here? Eamonn.

I'll admit to not wanting to do much else other than scout type activities when I was away with the Troop. A good friend of mine back home in England, was the Scout Leader of the 21st Fulham. The Scout Group (Pack and Troop) was very much a family affair. His Mother-in-law was Cub Scout Leader, Father-in-law was Group Scout Leader, Brother-in-law was Assistant Scout Leader. When they went to camp it seemed that everyone went! It wasn't unusual to see very young children, friends and relatives. This was never my cup of tea, but it seemed to work for them. All were deeply involved in the Church where the Troop met and the Pack and Troop had a comfortable homely feel to it. I think it's a matter of "Different courses for different horses". Eamonn.

I'm still mulling this Parent Coordinator idea over. On one hand I feel that I have been guilty of moaning and groaning that it seemed to me that nothing was being done to reach the one million new volunteers that the long term strategic plan called for. Yet now when something is being done, I'm not sure if it's such a great thing. I can and do see where maybe in a very large Troop this Parent Coordinator might earn his or her way. But I also see that in most of the Troops in our area it isn't really needed. Mainly because they just don't have the members. Earlier this year I attended the Council Eagle Scout Recognition Dinner. The Scouts were presented with a certificate as they came back, I noticed that nearly all of them had the Arrow of Light on their shirts. At the time I thought that I needed to remember this in order to give the Cub Scouter's a much deserved pat on the back. This Parent Coordinator has got me thinking about the life cycle of a parent. When the little fellow becomes of age, he joins the Tiger Cubs. In most cases one parent signs up as the Tiger Partner. If they make it through the first year, the Den moves on to become the Wolf Den. If the Tiger Den had six Tigers, the Wolf Den will need at least two of these parents to become Den Leaders, with luck a couple will also sign up to join the Pack Management Committee. Allowing for the boys that quit, this is about 80% of the available parents. I haven't worked out how many of the little fellows remain in Cub Scouting all the way through? It was common that many of the female Den Leaders, didn't stick around for the Webelos Scout years. But I think that is changing. The Boy Scout Troops I know are maybe not as "Parent Friendly" as Cub Scout Packs seem to be. Parents of young Boy Scouts are still very interested in what their son is doing and will if asked do what they can to help. Their intrest seems to fade as their son starts to find things that He wants to do, which may not be things that they are really interested in. Often the Lad will put Scouts and Scouting on the back burner, as his interest wanes so does their involvement. Some parents do of course get involved in the activity by becoming part of whatever that activity needs: Coaches, Boosters or whatever? A Parent Coordinator, might have some luck keeping some parents in and active, but I somehow don't see it lasting very long. By the time the Lad can drive, only the parents who are "Hard core". Either active as uniformed volunteers or serving on committees will still be round. I have to admit that I wasn't able to open all the links on the Scout Parents web site. I was a little saddened when the first one I opened seemed to be selling a bag that would be used to carry all the material around in and was left asking myself if this was just another way of Scout-stuff selling more stuff? While I'm not sure of the true benefits this new position will bring? I do feel that it isn't going to do any real harm Eamonn.

For little old me? In the Oath it has to be duty to God. But I suppose if I had that part down pat everything else would fall in line? While all the points are supposed to be viewed as being equal. I tend to see "Kind" as having a special place for me. Sadly it is the one point I tend to have the hardest time with. The School motto of the School I attended was (is?) "Manners Maketh Man". This is something else that maybe I ought to work on. Eamonn.

I of course will need to read more and try to understand more, before I can say very much. I was at PTC back in 2000. I participated in the conference Delivering Commissioner Service. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that Commissioner Service in now in such bad shape that it is beyond repair. I'll freely admit that my only knowledge is what I have seen in the Council I serve and the Area which the Area Committee I sat on served (13 councils). I'm not sure I can see any real wisdom in loading more responsibility on something that clearly is broken? Is the idea to try and make Commissioner Service more attractive? I'm sure some people will of course disagree with me but.... The Commissioner newsletter SPRING/SUMMER 2008 page 8 states: Number of Units This Year: 120,695 Unit Commissioners Needed: 40,234 Unit Commissioners Registered :18,250 Need to Recruit: 21,984 Adding more work to a area that is so vastly understaffed and has been for a long time, with no sign of improvement? Yes I do need to read more and try and understand more! Eamonn.

Not sure how it works in other Councils. But... When I was Chair. (I know, I'd yawn too!) Sometime,about this time of the year, the key 3 would meet. We would go over all the events that the District held and look at the budgets. We would also look toward next years Quality District. Some things were cast in bronze (Membership). In the early days we had to option of being + 1 or showing I think 5% growth? (I'm unable to remember if it was 5% or 2%) This growth thing was done away with in part because it was open to abuse. The SE had and has the final word on Financial Goals. We would meet and set 3 goals: Family, Community and District. These were sent to the SE. Who as a rule sent them back! Saying that he wanted more!! Him and I would meet and a compromise would be made. Some DE's might have FOS as a Critical Achievement. It was up to each DE if he or she wanted to share these Critical Achievements with the volunteers or not. Critical Achievements are what DE's are judged by. So there were times when they had a lot on the line. I have always argued that it made little or no difference where the money came from as long as it came in. To this end we really put our efforts into the community campaign. It also somehow seemed that we had more control over what we could bring in from the community than we had from the family campaign. We also had a pop-corn goal. District events were budgeted not to ever lose money, but at the same time we really didn't want to make a lot. For some events this can be hard. Day Camp should be easy, but when you have to send people to camp school this is an added expense that most Cub Scouter's don't see or know much about. For our Community Campaign, we looked for businesses and groups who would be around for a while. In fact someone giving a one time large donation made life difficult for the following year (Try telling a SE that it was just a fluke and your not going to bring in as much as you did last year and he seems to develop selective deafness.) We went out of our way to "Look After these community people, inviting them up to camp for dinner so they could see how and where the money was being spent. We went out of our way to ensure that all the Community Captains got timely updates of how they were doing and if things didn't look like they were going as they should, we helped them out by sending more volunteers (Not uniformed volunteers in to maybe run a phone-athon or send out letters.) We do need to remember that not all volunteers serve as unit leaders or wear uniforms!! Many of the best workers on the District Committee never wore a uniform. Our District is not very big. I would think trying to do this in a very large District might be a lot harder and would need a lot more hard working volunteers. Sadly sometimes when Districts get bigger, it doesn't always follow that there are more hard working volunteers to help get the job done! Eamonn.

Lisa, We the volunteers have no idea where that new DE is going to land or end up. Historically, because the District which I'm in is the smallest in our Council, new DE's started out with us. At times some of the District Committee members felt a little cheated because of the investment that had been made training and get this new DE up to snuff, only to see them either move to a bigger District within the Council or move away to be promoted in another Council. I was spoiled having my good friend serve for nine of the ten years I was serving as District Commissioner and District Chairman. Our now District Chair. Is a super nice guy. He served as District Chair before when I was on the District Committee. He really does know his way around. If he has a fault? It is that he is resurrecting a lot of the old timers like myself and not bringing new people on board. (He also serves as the Council Camping Chair and was asked to step Ina's District Chair until the new DE found his feet and a new Chairman could be found.) The new DE is a super fellow. At one time he was going to be a Roman Catholic Priest. I kinda got the impression that there was a move to try and bring me back. But to be very honest District Chair was the job I disliked the most. I did have fun and like to think that I did a good job!! I think if I were to return and serve again I'd also be guilty of not trying to bring new people on board. As it is now I miss working with the people that were on the Committee, most of whom I recruited. Eamonn.

Many of us who have been around for a while and who have served at District, Council and maybe the Regional level? Have seen DE's come and go. We know that DE's come in all shapes and sizes. Some new DE's take to their new job like a duck to water. Some seem to have a hard time and sadly some never seem to get it. A good pal of mine who has served as a Council Vice President and District Chairman, holds fast to the opinion that young men who are Eagle Scouts make the worst DE's. His argument for this is that they have a hard time seeing the job for what it is and as he puts it "Want to play Boy Scout". I really don't like generalizations. I'm sure that there are Eagle Scouts who have made wonderful DE's. For a while our Council was blessed, we had two female DE's. Both had strong ties to the community, before and during their term as DE's. They really were not interested in advancement or promotion. One is still serving while the other (Who is one of my closest and dearest friends.) Took early retirement. She now serves as our District Finance Chair. Since the one who took early retirement left the District has had a rough ride. The young man we hired to replace her, while a very nice fellow, just didn't get it. This was his first real job. I can't remember what his degree was in I think it was French! He had worked at his home council's Cub Scout Camp for a couple of summers. He had no idea what he was doing. To be fair to him. At the time he arrived, the Field Director left to become a Finance Director in another Council. I was District Chair. But soon after he arrived I had back surgery and to be very honest I just really didn't like him. He wasn't from our area. For the first few months, everywhere he went he went with map in hand. He of course didn't know anyone. There was no one in the Council Service Center to train him or take him under their wing. For the first 3 months he kinda hung out at the service center playing games on his computer. In an effort to save money the Council decided it would be best if he worked from his home office. The end result of this was that I could never get hold of him. Some of his opinions upset a good many of our faithful volunteers. My term as District Chair came to an end. I was elated. For some reason the nominating committee didn't go with the person I had trained and groomed as my replacement. (A local bank president.) Opting to go with a local attorney who had become a friend of the DE. They also asked someone that I had removed from the District Commissioner position to serve as District Commissioner. We ended up with 3 people who didn't know what they were doing serving as the key 3. The attorney didn't serve for a year and just kinda faded away. (He has since been disbarred for embezzlement.)The District Commissioner took his District Chairman spot. Membership fell to an all time low, units folded, the Commissioner Staff ran to the hills never to be seen again. The DE was rarely seen. In fact the Regional Director had to call him into the Service Center to issue him a formal warning. By this time the District was in shambles, and the DE moved to another Council. I'll admit to having the mindset that volunteers do know a lot more about the program and how things work far more than most new DE's. While there are Field Directors in many Councils who do have the time to train and oversee new DE'S. Most DE's are taught and learn the ropes from the volunteers. Of course when the volunteers are not there things get out of whack. We now have a new DE. A local guy who earned his Eagle in the District next door. This isn't his first job. He was employed as a fund raiser for a local theater. The Council President seen how bad things were and asked a Board Member to serve as District Chairman, until such a time as the District Committee can be rebuild. Things do seem to be coming around. But the sad fact is that we have lost so many units and members along with losing a lot of community FOS contributions that how long we can afford to pay a DE is questionable. For a District to function well and meet the goals, a lot of things have to mesh. Most of all there has to be a strong partnership between the professional staff and the volunteers. There will be times when the volunteers do have to train the DE and there will be times when the DE has to train the volunteers. Like most things in life we all do learn from each other. It might be easy to quote from the "Book" but the truth is we do what is needed to get the job done. When we do this working within the parameters of the oath and law things will work out for the best and as they should. Eamonn

Eamonn Wearing His Moderator Hat. Hey Guys. As far as I know the PM function is working. If you must give each other a piece of your mind? That would be the way to go. While some people might find this sort of bickering entertaining? It has nothing to do with the thread. Please don't tell me who you think is at fault or who is to blame. Thanks Eamonn.

uz2bnowl Please don't take this as any sort of a put down. The Lad has passed all the requirements. If and when he passes the BOR. He will be an Eagle Scout. It will be his Eagle Scout Award. He will know if he has really earned it or not. You post: "Eagle is not a lifetime achievement award" I'm mot really sure what you mean. Eagle Scouts are Scouts who have met all the requirements. Sure I know Eagle Scouts who lack outdoor skills, I know Eagle Scouts who seem to lack any sort of worth while leadership ability. But someone at sometime signed off that they had met the requirements. And that is what is required. If you look at this Lad and are unhappy? Maybe the real answer lies in looking at the Troop program and asking what can be done to make it more attractive to older Scouts? Or maybe finding a way to work closer with community organizations like the Fire Deportment? Eagle Scouts come in all shapes and sizes, some are the Lads who never miss a meeting, work closely with the younger Scouts, others just do what is needed and move on. We have no idea what these Lads will do in ten or twenty years time. I have seen the best kids end up in jail and the little stinkers become priests. Our job is to serve the youth not make judgments. Eamonn.

Stosh, I have to disagree with: "BSA has no other medium to handle their female camp staff if they happen to be under the age of 18" Every other employer who employs youth manages to hire them without making them a member of some fictitious Crew. I have hired youth as bus-persons and dishwashers. What makes the employee of a Council which is a corporation any different? If a young person were to be hired as a Sales Person in our Council run Scout Shop. - Would they have to join a "Scout Shop Sales Crew" ? Camp Staff no matter how we view them are employees of the Council. Having them register as youth members might facilitate them wearing a uniform, but other than that I see no reason why they should sign up as members. They could if they are 18 sign up as Merit Badge Counselors, without becoming full members. Having them wear a uniform of a pretend unit? Just seems a bit silly to me. Eamonn.